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Here's to 235 undefeated years, and another 235 more!

Hooah!

Not to be a liberal or anything, but what about Vietnam?

EDIT:

Wait, when did they peg the date of the birthday?

Continental Army days?

June 14th 1775 is the official Army birthday.

We've never lost a war, Vietnam was technically a conflict.

IAmTheWalrus wrote:June 14th 1775 is the official Army birthday.

We've never lost a war, Vietnam was technically a conflict.

Okay, if by definiton a war is one in which we engage in by act of Congress, what would of been our last victorious war?

IAmTheWalrus wrote:June 14th 1775 is the official Army birthday.

We've never lost a war, Vietnam was technically a conflict.

Americas army now sounds like that guy that claims to have never lost at bowling because it was a "practice match".

ShumaGorath wrote:

IAmTheWalrus wrote:June 14th 1775 is the official Army birthday.

We've never lost a war, Vietnam was technically a conflict.

Americas army now sounds like that guy that claims to have never lost at bowling because it was a "practice match".

Well, losing is healthy relative to where you are at the end. In a war, it is difficult to say losing is healthy because many infamous conflicts have ended in the end of the country in more ways than one and by a literal definition.

America's "participation" in Vietnam helped us win the Cold War if you are to believe the events surrounding Charlie Wilson and the movie that made him recently infamous. I do believe America helped end the Cold War by funding operations for a Vietnam to occur to the Soviets in Afghanistan, but dunno if that inspiration could be attributed to Vietnam itself and the lessons America took away from it.

Army beat the germans, twice. And without any Marines. That should count for something

WarOne wrote:

IAmTheWalrus wrote:June 14th 1775 is the official Army birthday.

We've never lost a war, Vietnam was technically a conflict.

Okay, if by definiton a war is one in which we engage in by act of Congress, what would of been our last victorious war?

World War II was the last official war we engaged in.

ShumaGorath wrote:

IAmTheWalrus wrote:June 14th 1775 is the official Army birthday.

We've never lost a war, Vietnam was technically a conflict.

Americas army now sounds like that guy that claims to have never lost at bowling because it was a "practice match".

So because we didn't bowl a 300 that particular time, we're suddenly braggarts and exaggerate?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:Army beat the germans, twice. And without any Marines. That should count for something

Not strictly true. Marines were part of the AEF in WWI, and as much as I loath to give them credit, they did a pretty good job.

So because we didn't bowl a 300 that particular time, we're suddenly braggarts and exaggerate?

When we talk about being undefeated we are. They had more pins. The board didn't say "America! Strike!" it said "vietnam wins".

ShumaGorath wrote:

So because we didn't bowl a 300 that particular time, we're suddenly braggarts and exaggerate?

When we talk about being undefeated we are. They had more pins. The board didn't say "America! Strike!" it said "vietnam wins".

We provided assistance to the the Southern Vietnamese and were handing control over to them. Not our fault they couldn't win the war, we did everything we could to train them before withdrawing our troops.

IAmTheWalrus wrote:So because we didn't bowl a 300 that particular time, we're suddenly braggarts and exaggerate?

Nah, it’s just that it’s odd that some people will invent reasons to deny that they lost that one.

The US military has a lot to be proud of, in terms of ability to win the day and the discipline and morality of its troops. But you lost Vietnam. You took on specific objectives (prevent South Vietnam turning communist) and built a methodology to achieve that (create a South Vietnamese army capable of defeating the North and inflict such heavy losses on the North that they abandon the idea of reuniting the country).

For a variety of reasons, many of them not the fault of your army, you didn’t achieve these goals. Not achieving your goals and going home is called losing. It’s alright, it happens, but pretending it wasn’t a loss is silly.

Not strictly true. Marines were part of the AEF in WWI, and as much as I loath to give them credit, they did a pretty good job.

There were also a lot countries involved that weren’t Americans. Strange but true.

There were also a lot countries involved that weren’t Americans. Strange but true.

Well yeah, the germans. Duh.

I'm a former U.S. soldier, and I admit we lost Vietnam. There. Happy now?

Happy birthday my chosen branch of service, may you continue to be controversial for another 235 more years.

As with games of 40K you tend to learn more from losses than wins.

The Vietnam War represented a low point of army effectiveness and flaws were recognised which were addressed and led to a huge improvement in the army afterwards.

Let's hope the army wins in Afghanistan.

Commander Endova wrote:I'm a former U.S. soldier, and I admit we lost Vietnam. There. Happy now?

Well yeah, but I was pretty happy before that

And let me repeat my earlier comment, the US armed forces have a lot be proud of, both in terms of effectiveness and the manner in which they’ve conducted themselves.

I don't know if the American definition is different, but in the UK to be classified as a war, bombs have to fall within both beligerents territories, so technicaly neither the UK or the US have been involved in a war since WW2. All other engagements are classed as conflicts. However the word War sells papers so I guess we can all blame the media for that one.

Back on topic, Happy Birthday US Army. I have had the honour of serving alongside many members of the US military and they were all a great bunch of blokes.

That's hilarious how you can suddenly brush over Nam when it was perfectly clear to anyone of that time and anyone of today that Vietnam was a war that the USA were engaged in. Not your fault they couldn't win the war?

Is over half a million combat personnel not a significant figure to aid the SVA (who themselves had over 600,000) against ~500,000 NVA?

Hmpgh.

sA

I think the problem was including the word 'undefeated' in a general sense. Saying 'conflicts don't count' is a bit silly, and actually quite insulting to the thousands of men who made the ultimate sacrifice in Vietnam.

Yeah should use "Undefeated*
*Disincluding any battles decided to be practice runs "

Not to mention the people and nations shattered by "conflict" inflicted upon them.

Though I will say happy birthday to the US army; may you learn from your mistakes and continue onewards stronger than before.

You've done some great work over the years and I hope that continues.

Anyone who call's it a 'Conflict' or 'Police Action' or 'Foreign Legislative support' never had a bullet shot at them-unless they were a President.

Shoot a bullet at me and wer'e at war, of that I can assure you.

And Happy 235th Biffy U.S Army-Good on ya

akira5665 wrote:Anyone who call's it a 'Conflict' or 'Police Action' or 'Foreign Legislative support' never had a bullet shot at them-unless they were a President.

Completely untrue. I've been downrange and been shot at and mortared.

I stand by my statement.

USA USA! USA! USA!

War of 1812!

Gwar! wrote:Conflict of 1812!

Out of interest, which is better, the marines, or the army...?

squilverine wrote:I don't know if the American definition is different, but in the UK to be classified as a war, bombs have to fall within both beligerents territories, so technicaly neither the UK or the US have been involved in a war since WW2. All other engagements are classed as conflicts. However the word War sells papers so I guess we can all blame the media for that one.

Or we can applaud the use of a popularly understood term triumphing over an obscure and misleading piece of jargon.

Seriously, when 50,000 of your soldiers die you were in a war.

sebster wrote:

squilverine wrote:I don't know if the American definition is different, but in the UK to be classified as a war, bombs have to fall within both beligerents territories, so technicaly neither the UK or the US have been involved in a war since WW2. All other engagements are classed as conflicts. However the word War sells papers so I guess we can all blame the media for that one.

Or we can applaud the use of a popularly understood term triumphing over an obscure and misleading piece of jargon.

Seriously, when 50,000 of your soldiers die you were in a war.

Everything needs to be defined in some way or another, I have merely provided the definition of a war as explained to me whilst serving in the army. Frankly when shots are being fired and you and your friends are in danger of being killed you couldn't give a monkeys if its called a war a conflict or a tea party. I am curious to know what is misleading or obscure about the word conflict? Is there an alternative understanding of the word?

To be fair, Vietnam was more of a loss for the USA as a whole, rather than a loss for the actual army itself. The USA didn't leave Vietnam because the army was getting its ass kicked and was unable to fight anymore, the USA left because the Vietnam war had basically become way too politically unpopular. The US as a country may have lost Vietnam, but the US Army fought hard and did everything that was asked of it.

n0t_u wrote:

Gwar! wrote:Conflict of 1812!

We won that, it just took us until 1814.

General Bob "We're losing! What do we do?"
Darth Vader: "Wait and have faith in the Dark Side. I am sending my apprentice. In two year's time you will meet the British in the land of begnettes. Frazzled will be there. Then we will have...peace."