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Now that GW has posted the DH and WH codices on their website, we can see that some revisions have been made. Namely that DH can no longer be taken as allies for other armies. How do guard players plan to defend against mass deepstrike armies without their mystics?

where on the gw website is the new codex?

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1050287a_Codex__Daemonhunters

personalyl don't see it as that big of a deal, however, I bet people are going to keep on using them until GW officially invalidates the codexs that people already own or at least erratas it.

good old deployment tactics and such..

I took a look at the link and gthe pdf simply reprints the DH units straight out of the codex...no mention that this replaces the older codexes...so yes unless there is a specific FAQ saying that you can't get allies then I guess you still can...

Hmm never used allies and still the IG dex does good by me... odd isn't it. As for the what to do about DS armies bit – one world "incoming".

The "new codex" did not remove allies.

Regardless, most Guard players don't use them anyway so I suspect they'll continue on as normal whereas the powergamers will probably throw a hissy fit and play a different army.

Melissia wrote:The "new codex" did not remove allies.

Thats true. It just doesnt allow you to use them

Melissia wrote:The powergamers will probably throw a hissy fit and play a different army.

Law 1 of powergaming

If you're going to argue that, then technically speaking you can't make a legal army with them anyway because they have no FoC, and even if you could, the page they left out has a lot of vital rules for the army, like, I don't know, the Grey Knight rule.

the answer is probably spam more melta veterans and vendettas

They might miss that infinite range psy hood

btw, I'm aware of the link, but I can not find the 'link' on GW's site, I've looked everywhere, and while it's clearly on GWs site, I can't find this particular link...

You have to sign up on the site.

Its also under the daemon hunters articles

The mystics were really good for mech guard, but honestly the removal of mystics means the return to old school anti-deep strike tactics.

There are two major methods:
1. Use cheap infantry to take up space, forcing deep strikers to show up where they don't want or take excessive risk.

2. Circle the wagons in a corner.

You can combine both strategies.

It also means IG doesn't beat drop pods for free anymore.

It also means no psychic defense for guard anymore.

And no more assassins. No callidus/marbo combo anymore. That's kind of sad--assassins are cool models and interesting rules. Seems like GW will sell fewer models this way.

So, mech up, and add bubblewrap.

Melissia wrote:Regardless, most Guard players don't use them anyway so I suspect they'll continue on as normal whereas the powergamers will probably throw a hissy fit and play a different army.

I'm a little upset about it, if it's been removed. I don't think anyone could accuse me of powergaming, I just liked the fluff for the inquisition and I was hoping to get a unit for my IG. Oh well. /hissyfit

You can infact still use allies using the french version of the latest PDF downloadable codex (it's the section right under wargear).

So, if you live in Fance or Canada, you're good.

Or if you use the FAQs. Or if you use the ACTUAL codex rather than the PDF malarkey. Or if you have people to play with who aren't asshats.

A LD 10 unlimited range hood is a 3rd edition relic with no business in a 5th ed power codex like IG. Same goes for mystics and emperor's tarot.

And they'll be removed when the fifth edition Grey Knights codex is released. Until then, there's no need to weaken an already weak codex by removing allies.

Melissia wrote:Or if you use the FAQs. Or if you use the ACTUAL codex rather than the PDF malarkey. Or if you have people to play with who aren't asshats.

I would have to say this is the actual codex, you can't go buy the "real" one anymore so that would make it the old codex. Using a UNLIMITED range psychic hood? Whose getting "free" shots at any deepstriking units? Who's the Asshat?

General_Chaos wrote:I would have to say this is the actual codex, you can't go buy the "real" one anymore so that would make it the old codex. Using a UNLIMITED range psychic hood? Whose getting "free" shots at any deepstriking units? Who's the Asshat?

That would be the guy who takes your reasoning, discovers there is no Force Org Chart in the downloadable PDF, and brings nothing but heavy support choices as a "legal" list.

Janthkin wrote:

General_Chaos wrote:I would have to say this is the actual codex, you can't go buy the "real" one anymore so that would make it the old codex. Using a UNLIMITED range psychic hood? Whose getting "free" shots at any deepstriking units? Who's the Asshat?

That would be the guy who takes your reasoning, discovers there is no Force Org Chart in the downloadable PDF, and brings nothing but heavy support choices as a "legal" list.

It's obvious GW is working to take allies out or at least not have them in until a new Deamonhunters codex comes out when they can update some of this 3rd edition craptasitic wargear.

I don't use them (never have) and i get by fine. It's not that much of a problem when you can feld 9 LR tanks and 9 Hellhounds
That said, having the green to buy all those tanks is another problem lol

To the OP, you could start a crazy thread to see who takes the bite.

As for me if you are DH/WH ally away!
SM and IG fugedaboutit!

Its silly cheese spread, and honestly everyopne can play with allies as far as I am concerned.

General_Chaos wrote:

Janthkin wrote:

General_Chaos wrote:I would have to say this is the actual codex, you can't go buy the "real" one anymore so that would make it the old codex. Using a UNLIMITED range psychic hood? Whose getting "free" shots at any deepstriking units? Who's the Asshat?

That would be the guy who takes your reasoning, discovers there is no Force Org Chart in the downloadable PDF, and brings nothing but heavy support choices as a "legal" list.

It's obvious GW is working to take allies out or at least not have them in until a new Deamonhunters codex comes out when they can update some of this 3rd edition craptasitic wargear.

"Obvious" is one of those words lawyers love to see, as they are indications of a lack of argument....

We know that WHFB has largely dispensed with cross-army book allies (although Ogres are still available for hire). We know that no new 40k codex has a similar allies system. But really, that's ALL we know. Some people are making the (rather large) leap in logic that leaving out certain pages from the original codex was done with specific intent; those same people tend to ignore that OTHER pages are also left out, and that the codex is useless if you don't infer their continued presence.

And I really, REALLY doubt that the 3e wargear is of major concern to GW. They've had the ability to fix that issue for a long time, and have expressly refused to do so (which is why we have different versions of the Psychic Hood, Force Weapon, and Assault Cannon spread across different SM armies...).

Bottom line: if GW really wanted to put an end to allies, they could do so by adding a single sentence to the DH & WH Eratta documents. They haven't done so.

If GW wanted to nuke allies, why did they leave it in the WH codex?

having issues with the codices loading on my end, but from reading Gwar! and Janthkin's posts I believe my newly painted AdMech Facilitator General (counts-as Inquisitor Lord) is still safe in my IG army.

I mean really, other armies have 3++ saves all over the fething place and a rangeless psychic hood and random DS defense is broken? Really....really?