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Lord:
Sorcerer Lord
Level 4, Mark of Tzeentch
Enchanted Shield, Book of Secrets, Golden Eye of Tzeentch, Dispel Scroll, Disc of Tzeentch
[400]

Chaos Lord
Mark of Khorne, Shield, Crown of Everlasting Conquest, Dragon Helm, Sword of Swift Slaying
[320]

Hero:
Wulfrik the Wanderer
[185]

Exalted Hero
Battle Standard Bearer, Flail, Shield, Mark of Khorne, Bloodcurdling Roar, Blasted Standard
[194]

Core:
(40) Chaos Marauders
Mark of Khorne, Great Weapons, Full Command
[250]

(40) Chaos Marauders
Mark of Khorne, Great Weapons, Full Command
[250]

(40) Chaos Marauders
Mark of Khorne, Great Weapons, Full Command
[250]

(40) Chaos Marauders
Mark of Khorne, Great Weapons, Full Command
[250]

(5) Chaos Warhounds
[30]

(5) Chaos Warhounds
[30]

(5) Chaos Warhounds
[30]

Special:
Chaos Chariot
Mark of Slaanesh
[130]

Chaos Chariot
Mark of Slaanesh
[130]

Chaos Chariot
Mark of Slaanesh
[130]

Rare:
Chaos Warshrine
Mark of Slaanesh
[140]

Chaos Warshrine
Mark of Slaanesh
[140]

Chaos Warshrine
Mark of Slaanesh
[140]

[2999]

Just screwing around with the idea. Chariots go after the backfield, Marauders take center stage (except those with Wulfrik). They are buffed out by the Shrines and the characters just do what they do. It is rough as a list can be, mostly just tinkering with some ideas.

Thoughts? Ideas? Obvious flaws?

I would want a puppet on the level 4 and maybe stream of corruption in there somewhere.

With new LoS, I'm really liking the Doom totem. Can probably hit their general too for all those stubborn blocks.

Hmm, i like the big blocks of marauders. Considering this myself if I start WoC! As probably a lot of people will with 8th, since it might finally be viable!

You've got 3 repeat rares, which is OK since you're at 3K points, but at anything under you'd have to drop a warshrine.

Cool list

Yea, I am thinking I may toss the Chariots for something else to get into the backfield, like Marauder Horsemen or some such - which might further the theme a bit, too.

Glad you like it, because it seems pretty brutal. Of course, I am debating now on Flails vs. GWs. I think Flails may be better, letting me go at I4 and take less casualties before I strike.

Are you planning to run the marauders at 5-wide to be stubborn with a lot of ranks, or 10-wide to get an extra rank attacking?

I had thought 5-wide, but your comment about the flails makes me wonder... since they definitely won't take enough losses not to attack back with the front 2 ranks if they're only 5-wide.

10-wide front, so that they can get the Horde +1 rank attacks. That means 2 for the front and two ranks of 1 attack each. They can easily lose the rear rank and still pull that off.

Mmmmmm, that will be interesting to try... I may run mine in a mix of ways. 20mm bases are going to be a little more manueverable with horde formation, but even then, it's huge!!! With 25mm bases, those 4 units will take up most of the deployment area

~10" wide and ~4" deep w/ 25mm bases. Taking up over less than half the board with initial deployment; Wulfrik's unit coming in out of reserves.

Here is another list, with a slightly different direction.

Lord:
Sorcerer Lord
Level 4, Mark of Tzeentch
Enchanted Shield, Book of Secrets, Golden Eye of Tzeentch, Dispel Scroll, Disc of Tzeentch
[400]

Chaos Lord
Mark of Khorne, Shield, Crown of Everlasting Conquest, Dragon Helm, Sword of Swift Slaying
[320]

Hero:
Wulfrik the Wanderer
[185]

Exalted Hero
Battle Standard Bearer, Flail, Shield, Mark of Khorne, Bloodcurdling Roar, Blasted Standard
[194]

Core:
(40) Chaos Marauders
Mark of Khorne, Flails, Musician, Standard Bearer
[242]

(40) Chaos Marauders
Mark of Khorne, Flails, Musician, Standard Bearer
[242]

(40) Chaos Marauders
Mark of Khorne, Flails, Musician, Standard Bearer
[242]

(40) Chaos Marauders
Mark of Khorne, Flails, Musician, Standard Bearer
[242]

(5) Chaos Warhounds
[30]

(5) Chaos Warhounds
[30]

(5) Chaos Warhounds
[30]

(5) Chaos Warhounds
[30]

(10) Marauder Horsemen
Mark of Khorne, Light Armor, Flails, Musician
[196]

(10) Marauder Horsemen
Mark of Khorne, Light Armor, Flails, Musician
[196]

Rare:
Chaos Warshrine
Mark of Slaanesh
[140]

Chaos Warshrine
Mark of Slaanesh
[140]

Chaos Warshrine
Mark of Slaanesh
[140]

[2999]

The doggies screen for the hard cover. The BSB sits in the center, helping with re-rolls for nearby units (if in range). The Sorcerer sits back and tosses down magic, while the Lord bolsters another unit. The Shrines are behind the three deployed Marauder blocks, boosting them all with goodness. The Horsemen screen flanks and harass warmachines, using the Mark to boost their damage potential - debating on Slaanesh, though, for the whole immunity to fear, terror, and panic.

Wulfrik and a big block come in off the side and threaten the sides of the opponent's army. The big blocks now have Flails, meaning they can hit hard on the charge at I4, where GWs are ASL, which might incur them unneeded casualties. I can deploy those big blocks 10-wide for Horde or 5-wide for ranks, depending on what I need.

Also, here is an alternative list that buffs the BSB a bit and drops the Lord.

Lord:
Sorcerer Lord
Level 4, Mark of Tzeentch
Enchanted Shield, Book of Secrets, Golden Eye of Tzeentch, Dispel Scroll, Disc of Tzeentch
[400]

Hero:
Wulfrik the Wanderer
[185]

Exalted Hero
BSB, Mark of Tzeentch, Shield, Chaos Runesword
[200]

Exalted Hero
Mark of Tzeentch, Berserker Sword, Collar of Khorne
[165]

Core:
(40) Chaos Marauders
Mark of Khorne, Flails, Musician, Standard Bearer
[242]

(40) Chaos Marauders
Mark of Khorne, Flails, Musician, Standard Bearer
[242]

(40) Chaos Marauders
Mark of Khorne, Flails, Musician, Standard Bearer
[242]

(40) Chaos Marauders
Mark of Khorne, Flails, Musician, Standard Bearer
[242]

(5) Chaos Warhounds
[30]

(5) Chaos Warhounds
[30]

(5) Chaos Warhounds
[30]

(10) Marauder Horsemen
Mark of Khorne, Flails, Musician
[186]

(10) Marauder Horsemen
Mark of Khorne, Flails, Musician
[186]

(10) Marauder Horsemen
Mark of Khorne, Flails, Musician
[186]

Rare:
Chaos Warshrine
Mark of Slaanesh
[140]

Chaos Warshrine
Mark of Slaanesh
[140]

Chaos Warshrine
Mark of Slaanesh
[140]

[2986]

Sadly, I still have 14pt left to spend and no idea where to put it! Two more doggies for better mobile hard cover to spread out across those 10-man frontages?

Thoughts? Any?

Tweaking the Khorne list (since I personally dont like tzeentch).

As mentioned in the other thread that you seemed to take note of, that BSB needs some protective gear, not so much the standard, it helps, but youve got big units and enough to spare from most shooting.

Dogs... oh my... Id say get rid of them. Sure your going to get the cover, but think about it, they will either shoot the dogs and that cover wouldnt matter in the first place, or in my opinion, if they are smart, they will shoot the marauders anyways and now your stuck behind dogs and your unable to charge. I think dogs are an uneccesary hassle for WoC armies now.

Id personally say give the Marauder units the champions. Based on your Character choices, youve got at least one unit without a character, and possibly 2 depending on your character placement. Now when that unit gets charged by something rather disturbing, such as a star dragon or an engine of the gods (or 2!), say good bye to those ranks and your stubborn... UNLESS you skrew them over with a challange and only let them get one model. I have made the mistake of not challanging, thinking that, that star dragon could kill enough to brake my ranks... I was wrong.
I know it might seem pointless, but long story short, I think it will save you at times.

Id say try and give the marauders throwing axes, they are just very annoying with them.

And lastly, Id say make the shrines Tzeentch, based on the set up, they should get rerolls from bsb on fear checks, terror checks, etc. So no need for Slaanesh, and 3+ ward save is just ridiculous.

EDIT: Oh! And you might eventually want to try running that Sorcerer without disk and without a mark, just to try out the different lores... I myself have grown extremely fond of lore of heavens and its awsome spells, specifically chain lightning which if your good on rolling will really do some damage. Not to mention Comet!

So, here is an alternative:

Lord:
Sorcerer Lord
Level 4, Mark of Tzeentch
Enchanted Shield, Book of Secrets, Golden Eye of Tzeentch, Dispel Scroll, Disc of Tzeentch
[400]

(Alternate Sorcerer Lord)
Level 4, Enchanted Shield, Book of Secrets, Talisman of Preservation (Name?), Third Eye of Tzeentch
[370]

Hero:
Wulfrik the Wanderer
[185]

Exalted Hero
BSB, Mark of Tzeentch, Shield, Chaos Runesword, Steam of Corruption
[220]

Exalted Hero
Mark of Tzeentch, Berserker Sword, Collar of Khorne, Bloodcurdling Roar
[185]

Core:
(40) Chaos Marauders
Mark of Khorne, Flails, Full Command
[250]

(40) Chaos Marauders
Mark of Khorne, Flails, Full Command
[250]

(40) Chaos Marauders
Mark of Khorne, Flails, Full Command
[250]

(40) Chaos Marauders
Mark of Khorne, Flails, Full Command
[250]

(10) Marauder Horsemen
Mark of Khorne, Flails, Musician
[186]

(10) Marauder Horsemen
Mark of Khorne, Flails, Musician
[186]

(10) Marauder Horsemen
Mark of Khorne, Flails, Musician
[186]

Rare:
Chaos Warshrine
Mark of Tzeentch
[150]

Chaos Warshrine
Mark of Tzeentch
[150]

Chaos Warshrine
Mark of Tzeentch
[150]

[2998]

If I go with the alternate Sorcerer Lord, I have 30pt to throw onto something else... No idea what though!

It really looks to me like too many points have been spent on core.

There isn't a great motivating factor for any army to overspend on core. I liked the list with chariots, they got a pretty nice buff this edition. Charge with marauders to plug your insane ranks into the combat, and then follow it up the next turn with the chariot charge. No one will be steadfast when the marauder block is in the combat.

Another combination that i have seen work very well in smaller test games is to reverse that order. Drop the chariots for knights, and charge the knights in as fast as possible to lock down enemy big blocks. Leave some surface area open for the marauders to come a turn or two later and charge in. Your marauders will un-steadfast the block and the knights will provide active combat resolution.

Everyone is justifiably skeptical about fast cavalry in 8th edition, but you need some kind of anti-stone thrower/mortar tech. If you don't have some kind of horse mobile unit, be it knights to lock some combats in place, or marauder cav to silence anti-block war machines, then I think that gunlines might just surgically dismantle WoC. Cannons still really hurt chariots. Obviously a lot less, but d6 wounds is often enough.

Hmmmm, I have to disagree, I think if you run a strong warrior list (like mine) it can work well... Its extremely hard to take down a mass of warriors, and once they get into combat, its safe to say its over (assuming your run them khorne with halberds or two hand weapons... like me )

I also find the hellcannon worth taking now, its better than most other stone throwers (except the bloody doom diver) and it will really mess up other warmachines I think.

BTW Shep, you ever play at the LA bunker? Since I notice you live is LA

Hellcannon does seem like a great buy, now!

What made you switch your large blocks to flails? I'm guessing even more killy-ness, since you're planning to run them 10-wide. It sounds like Shep's advice above is predicated on you running them deep, though.

If you're running them in horde formation, the flails make sense to take advantage of your initiative, at least against some opponents... but I'm partial to the GWs, so that they don't lose the strength bonus after the first round.

Ive thought the same thing about Great Weapons VS Flails RiTides. My conclusion was flails though. Mainly because they are only 40 man units... and yeah I say *only* because they are marauders. Those 40 models are only 250 points! But when you have ASL from great weapons, theres a good chance your going to loose alot of guys, and if you dont do the equivilant back, and break them, I fear your going to loose alot more. If you ran them with even more marauders, then by all means Id say go for great weapons...

On the other hand, you might still getting full attacks back with those great weapons... Its a tough decision I think. But I personally like the flails.

I'd use 10 wide 3 ranks of marauders (30). you get the horde rule so you get 10 attacks plus the new rule about 2nd rank attacking so thats 30 attacks. I 4 means you will go at the same time or first against other core units. Change GW to Flails first round of combat you will be hittign for str5 witih 30 attacks at WS4. MoK for additional 10 attacks (your paying 30 points for 10 more attacks) full command and thats 200 points. With Warshrines buffing the unit first round of combat you will do a lot of dmg.
40 attacks WS4 STR 5 I 4 for rougly 6 points.. a model...is darn cheap. Marauders best save is what a 5+ now with a 6+ parry ward save..thats garbage. I rather hit hard for one turn. Hope i do enough dmg that my marauders can either win combat or last till my flank charge. They are a cheap unit that can do a ton of dmg. With warshrines giving them a chance to Roll on Eye of the gods they can be really strong in small point games.
at 3k, I dont thing you have tought infantry that can withstand a punch. Might want to drop a squad of marauders get warriors and by triming 10 from the other marauder squads buff the warriros.

Just my 2 cents. I dont like going last in combat so I'm not a fan of GW. Even thou casualties are removed from the back your marauders will die easy and you will end up with less bodies to attack meaning less wounds caused.

Personally, I think if your going for horde rule with marauders, 30man units are pointless. You are running them 10wide so you can get your third rank attacking, if you only have 3 ranks, you are almost garenteed to lose some if not an entire rank from shooting or magic. Then your 10wide unit was for nothing. Marauders are cheap enough to run them as 40man units. And even more than that tbh!

Awesome to see some discussion going! I think WoC Marauder Spam is viable, just needs the right support.

How about tossing the Warshrines for something more killy, like Knights? Cannon?

Thoughts?

Id say try to drop 2 of the shrines for a Hellcannon. Alot of people come to the conclusion that one shrine isnt going to make a difference, and I strongly disagree. Ive been using 1 shrine in my list since I started warriors and wow, it has made a huge difference. Its not often that all your marauder units are going to be facing a giant threat at the same time. So even with just one shrine, you can see a threat comming and got a turn or two, to get just the right buff you need for that unit.

Im finding that the Hellcannon gives great support this edition. Infact most Warmachines will. Im running a horde orc army and the warmachines are a huge help. I would eventually like to incorperate 2 hellcannons into my own list.

Sadly, due to cost and my distaste of Marauder models, I am not going to field this anytime soon. If the Marauders get a re-do and become on par with the Marauder Horsemen, I might. Otherwise, its just not worth it. As cool as the idea is, I also don't like the idea of fielding ~180 models. Same reasons, mostly, why I dropped Skaven (that and Island of Blood later this year, to save money!).

I hear ya, Ive wanted to do a HEAVY marauder list, just ridiculous amounts. But 35 for 16... yeah units come close to 100 each.

Hell I wasnt going to even run my Orcs for 8th. Luckily a friend sold me a ridiculous amount and I ended up having close to 300 orcs and or black orcs... So now thats my horde army and my WoC are my rather low model count army (90 Warriors = low count?).

I'll carry the torch on the large marauder lists, then . But I'm still undecided- I'd like to hear about what people have experienced in actual games. The problem I see with horde formation is that you're not going to have all of those attacks, because you're so wide not everyone is in base-to-base.

But you've just about convinced me to go flails, somehow, anyway... . We'll see!!!

Buttlerthepug wrote:BTW Shep, you ever play at the LA bunker? Since I notice you live is LA

I'm on the west side, so i play at Aero hobbies. And any tournament in socal that I can

Buttlerthepug wrote:Personally, I think if your going for horde rule with marauders, 30man units are pointless. You are running them 10wide so you can get your third rank attacking, if you only have 3 ranks, you are almost garenteed to lose some if not an entire rank from shooting or magic. Then your 10wide unit was for nothing. Marauders are cheap enough to run them as 40man units. And even more than that tbh!

+1. 40 is the right horde number IMO.

Buttlerthepug wrote:Im finding that the Hellcannon gives great support this edition. Infact most Warmachines will. Im running a horde orc army and the warmachines are a huge help. I would eventually like to incorperate 2 hellcannons into my own list.

+1. My empire army has already gotten some cheap wins off of warriors due to steadfast. Being peerless in combat doesn't help when you are stuck on a block. I've been able to build a little VP lead with magic and warmachines, get three big blocks involved in nasty fights, lose with two and win with one, and take the game. Steadfast is your enemy, hellcannon is great at 'un-steadfasting' things. I think its required kit. Less so for a large marauder based horde, but the more elite you get the more abused you are going to be by goblins/skavenslaves/state troops.

Is your BSB the correct points value? I'm adding it up and getting a different number...

Seems right to me

Whoops, I missed that you edited it later! It was this first one I was referring to- it looks like you didn't add in the 25 points for it being a BSB:

Exalted Hero
Battle Standard Bearer, Flail, Shield, Mark of Khorne, Bloodcurdling Roar, Blasted Standard
[194]

It should come out to 219 as a BSB, I think... but then again, it is rather late! Also, would it make sense to give him a flail and shield? I'd read that in the new edition, models could not choose which weapons to attack with- i.e. he'd have to use the flail (since it requires two hands) rather than the hand weapon and shield. But I'm not at all sure about that, I keep meaning to check it when I see the book.

In a week I'll be able to look that kind of thing up and not have to wonder about it for a few days before finding out

RiTides wrote:Whoops, I missed that you edited it later! It was this first one I was referring to- it looks like you didn't add in the 25 points for it being a BSB:

Exalted Hero
Battle Standard Bearer, Flail, Shield, Mark of Khorne, Bloodcurdling Roar, Blasted Standard
[194]

It should come out to 219 as a BSB, I think... but then again, it is rather late! Also, would it make sense to give him a flail and shield? I'd read that in the new edition, models could not choose which weapons to attack with- i.e. he'd have to use the flail (since it requires two hands) rather than the hand weapon and shield. But I'm not at all sure about that, I keep meaning to check it when I see the book.

In a week I'll be able to look that kind of thing up and not have to wonder about it for a few days before finding out

Yea, I would be more concerned, but I am just not bothering with WoC. The Marauders are just too ugly and that is really the only "competitive" build I am seeing right now for 8th Edition. I love the Knights and Marauder Horsemen models, quite a lot, but I think I am leaning back to Skaven or Empire. Tough call. The latter does have tanks, which may be the deal-breaker for this treadhead.

I'm in love with the marauder models! But maybe that's just because I've been seeing nothing but tree models for so long...

I think they look off. Proportionally they are awful and too beefy. The Knigthts and Horsemen are simply awesome, with all the right details and proportions, etc. I think the Empire would be fun to paint, giving me lots of near-historical references to use and come on man, Steam Tanks?! That is too good. General on a Griffon!? Epic.

The one thing I don't like is the HUGE price tag on Empire, but its only ~$50 more than my WoC or Skaven army would be. I just worry it won't be competitive enough to win, as I hate losing.

So, I did draw this up, just in case later on I wanted to go for WoC - say, in the instance of a re-sculpt for Marauders.


Lord:
Sorcerer Lord
Level 4, Mark of Tzeentch
The Black Tongue, Infernal Puppet, Enchanted Shield, Bloodcurdling Roar
[400]

Hero:
Exalted Hero
BSB, Mark of Tzeentch, Shield, Talisman of Endurance, Berserker Sword, Stream of Corruption
[220]

Wulfrik the Wanderer
[185]

Core:
(50) Chaos Marauders
Mark of Khorne, Flails, Full Command
[300]

(50) Chaos Marauders
Mark of Khorne, Flails, Full Command
[300]

(50) Chaos Marauders
Mark of Khorne, Flails, Full Command
[300]

(10) Marauder Horsemen
Mark of Slaanesh, Flails, Musician
[166]

(10) Marauder Horsemen
Mark of Slaanesh, Flails, Musician
[166]

(10) Marauder Horsemen
Mark of Slaanesh, Flails, Musician
[166]

(10) Marauder Horsemen
Mark of Slaanesh, Flails, Musician
[166]

Rare:
Hellcannon
[205]

Hellcannon
[205]

Hellcannon
[205]

[2989]

What do you guys think?

I didnt even read the entire list... but I saw 3 hellcannons and that says enough... However, if you want to REALLY be a pain in the arse, I would say give the BSB Doom Totem and Fury of the Blood God. I hardly ever suggest not giving that BSB major protection... But something about 3 hellcannons comming down a turn causing -2LD panic checks to everything it hits... is awsome!

Im still iffy on Horsemen. Realize that they will be on the flanks of your army running up to slaughter the warmachines. On the sides of your army... Yeah that poses a big problem. Considering your probably going to have your BSB in the middle of the field (probably out of rank of the horsemen) and same situation with your Lord... So all it takes is that failed LD and your frenzy has taken control.

Personally, Im not sure you have enough marauders. 3 Blocks... Yes they are blocks of 50, but they are marauders! 150 is really little for a horde army imo, especially when you only have 2 of them comming down the board, and one of them has a chance of being delayed most of the game. My 3000pt Warrior heavy army has 90 Warriors. Thats only 60 more models, which, is alot, but when you compare them stat wise and pt wise. I dont think it will make too big of a difference.

So I would honestly drop at least 2 units of horsemen for 1 more block of 50 marauders. 300pts is so cheap for a unit of 50 guys with str5(first round), 2 attacks each.