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The 8th edition rulebook characterizes tk chariots as type chariot. It also says that chariots get d6 impact hits, or if they have different special rules, they get whatever is larger.

Is this a buff to TK chariots or am I misreading the rule?

The TK chariots still classify that they do D3 impact hits. This overides the rulebook.

what I'm trying to determine is: Do light cav get ranks now? furthermore, can they break ranks. Finally.

does that mean 10 chariots will break ranks?

am i nuts for thinking about 400 points of chariots in one unit?

SOrry, you were talking about impact hits so that was answered.

Unless the TK book has a prohibition on TK Chariots breaking ranks then it seems they would get ranks. Can you quote the rules for TK chariots here? IT would help answer the question.

Yes, but the main rulebook specifically says that unit type chariots get d6 OR their special rule, whichever is higher. It's an additional rule, not an override.

Ie: tomb king chariots get d3 impact hits because of their special rule. all chariots get d6 impact hits because they are chariots now. therefore they get the higher.

It is two separate rules giving them different things, and the rulebook says to take the higher.

It very specifically says the number of impact hits is d6, or whatever is specified in the unit entry.

Also tomb king chariots are LIGHT chariots, not normal ones.

They get D3 impact hits. I saw nothing about taking the higher one.

I'm pretty sure the rule was "d6 or whatever is specified, take the highest"

If it didn't say take the highest, then I agree.

And the light chariot doesn't matter because the new rulebook classifies them as unit type chariot. Therefore they have all the rules that chariots do. Including the rule that says "d6 impact hits or whatever is specified, take the highest"

Exact wording for chariot impact hits.

Chariots are huge crushing contraptions- The have the impact hits (D6) special rule. Some chariots are equipped with masive scythes and instead have impact hits (D6+1). This will be specified in their entry.

The tomb king entry says the do (d3) impact hits.

Killjoy - sorry bt you are making up that rule, as Shivan has shown - page 86 disagrees with you.

Specific rule overrides general.

Please don't accuse people of making up rules. You might disagree with this interpretation, but the rule is there.

pg. 71: "If a creature is granted two sets of Impact Hits, normally because its troop type and special rules both bestow Impact Hits, use the highest set, rather than a total."

pg. 86: "Chariots are huge crushing contraptions - they have the Impact Hits (D6) special rule."

pg. 483: "Tomb Kings ... Chariot ... type Ch"

Pg 11. Army book rules take precedent over the BRB.

They get D3 impact hits. The FAQ didn't change it so its D3 until GW says otherwise.

Army book precedence doesn't answer this question fully.

The rule says specific (as in army book) rules might grant impact hits. IN ADDITION, being the creature type "Chariot" grants impact hits. The rule for impact hits says if you have impact hits both from being a troop type and from special rules, you use the highest set.

The page 71 rule is refering to creatures like the HPA that has both impact from the army book and Thunderstomp from being a monstrous creature. While I would love 2D6 str6 impacts, this rule is in there to prevent that.

JJBCollect2 wrote:The page 71 rule is refering to creatures like the HPA that has both impact from the army book and Thunderstomp from being a monstrous creature. While I would love 2D6 str6 impacts, this rule is in there to prevent that.

This has nothing to do with that, on the turn it charges the HPA does indeed to D6+1 impact hits, then its normal attacks, then at the end a thunderstomp.

The tomb king rule book specifically states that tomb king chariots are classified differently and are light chariots and only get D3 impact hits. An exact quote from the tomb king book is, "Light chariots cause D3 impact hits instead of D6" Therefore imo, the rule for it getting D6 impact hits to pick the higher doesnt exist, since the army book says instead.

Army Codex's trump the BRB in this scenario.

ShivanAngel wrote:

JJBCollect2 wrote:The page 71 rule is refering to creatures like the HPA that has both impact from the army book and Thunderstomp from being a monstrous creature. While I would love 2D6 str6 impacts, this rule is in there to prevent that.

This has nothing to do with that, on the turn it charges the HPA does indeed to D6+1 impact hits, then its normal attacks, then at the end a thunderstomp.

The tomb king rule book specifically states that tomb king chariots are classified differently and are light chariots and only get D3 impact hits.

Army Codex's trump the BRB in this scenario.

You brought a tear of joy to my eye Shivan. I had misread the stomp rule and thought it said impact hit, not hit. How cana skavengeneral convince himself to not take and HPA....

JJBCollect2 wrote:

ShivanAngel wrote:

JJBCollect2 wrote:The page 71 rule is refering to creatures like the HPA that has both impact from the army book and Thunderstomp from being a monstrous creature. While I would love 2D6 str6 impacts, this rule is in there to prevent that.

This has nothing to do with that, on the turn it charges the HPA does indeed to D6+1 impact hits, then its normal attacks, then at the end a thunderstomp.

The tomb king rule book specifically states that tomb king chariots are classified differently and are light chariots and only get D3 impact hits.

Army Codex's trump the BRB in this scenario.

You brought a tear of joy to my eye Shivan. I had misread the stomp rule and thought it said impact hit, not hit. How cana skavengeneral convince himself to not take and HPA....

They go to tournaments with comp hits, where placing a HPA on the table automatically gets you marked down.

If you have the option there is no reason not to take it, for 235 points it is extremely ridiculous.

While I would love my TK chariots getting d6 impacts, they do not.

The reason is the phrase from the TK book, saying "cause d3 impact hits instead of d6."
With emphasis in bold.

Because the army book says instead, it does indeed overrule the main rulebook.


If the TK chariots had just said "Light Chariots: Cause d3 impact hits." and remained "Type: Chariot" then you'd have a case and they would have the option of causing d6 impacts OR d3.
But with the "instead" in the sentence, it overrules the rulebook.

Killjopy - you still ignored the rule on page 86 which specifies that the army book will specify how many impact hits you get.

You get D3, nothing more

I agree with you In_Theory, but nos' argument is wrong. He is ignoring the rule on page 71.

If it was simply a matter of army book > rulebook, then you second example wouldn't be true. But the distinction is in the wording, not the overriding.

Killjoy - nope, no I;m not.

You are ignoring Page 86 which states the army book will specify the number of impact hits. The army book DOES do this.

I'm with Killjoy on this one. The rule on 86 is in the context of the 'scythe" rules -- if you read the whole thing, it says "chariots get d6 impact hits" (or something to that effect)... some chariots get D6+1 because of the "scythe".... then it says, IF THIS IS THE CASE, it will say so in the army book. So, nothing to do with the D3 hits...

When I read the entry in the rules, it just struck me as weird, because the new troop-type stuff has nothing to do with the old rules in the army books. So, essentially, the D3 impact hits is a special rule from the book for "light chariots". Since TK chariots are troop-type chariot, they get D6 impact hits, and their special rule (as light chariots) gives them D3... Impact hit special rule says choose the highest; so they get D6.

I recognize that this is NOT RAI. And I agree with the people that say that the "D3 instead of D6" overrides... But, considering that troop types did not exist when the TK book was written, and they didn't mention it in the FAQ, I think there's a good RAW argument for D6.

teddet wrote:I'm with Killjoy on this one. The rule on 86 is in the context of the 'scythe" rules -- if you read the whole thing, it says "chariots get d6 impact hits" (or something to that effect)... some chariots get D6+1 because of the "scythe".... then it says, IF THIS IS THE CASE, it will say so in the army book. So, nothing to do with the D3 hits...

When I read the entry in the rules, it just struck me as weird, because the new troop-type stuff has nothing to do with the old rules in the army books. So, essentially, the D3 impact hits is a special rule from the book for "light chariots". Since TK chariots are troop-type chariot, they get D6 impact hits, and their special rule (as light chariots) gives them D3... Impact hit special rule says choose the highest; so they get D6.

I recognize that this is NOT RAI. And I agree with the people that say that the "D3 instead of D6" overrides... But, considering that troop types did not exist when the TK book was written, and they didn't mention it in the FAQ, I think there's a good RAW argument for D6.

no there isnt, the book says D3 instead of D6, how is this not black and white.

If it said tomb king chariots do D3 impact hits you might have a point.
IF in a gaming situation someone said my chariots get D6 impact hits now id chalk it up to being a TFG who cares only about winning so much that they will look at any discrepancies in the rulebook to gain an advantage. If it wasnt a tourny game id pack up, if it was id hammer them for sports.

Same type of person that said the enchanted shield wasnt a shield back in 7th cause it didnt state it was a shield in its description.

I guess GW relies a little to much on people having common sense.

Hey -- I said in my post that I think RAI means they get D3 hits, no need to get snippy. All I was doing was pointing out that it's not as clear-cut as you seem to think it is because the rule you quoted further up the page (the chariot rule), ONLY addresses the situation where troops with the troop-type chariots (which grants them D6 impact hits) have scythes (Granting them D6+1).

As I said in my post, I think it's D3 RAI, and I certainly wouldn't show up to a game arguing for it... On the internet, however, and in a RULES forum, I might indeed argue about it.

Here's the essence of my argument:

TK chariots have troop type chariot. Chariot rule grants D6 impact hits (or D6+1 if your book says SCYTHE). TK book says, D3 instead of D6 hits. However, TK book was written BEFORE troop types existed, so has to be granting them a special rule. Impact Hit Special rule says take the larger between "troop type" and "special rule", so, between D6 and D3, you take D6.

When I first read the rule, I figured they were hoping to deal with Doom Wheels, or other things that are "chariots", but get special types of impact hits... But I'm not sure what other circumstances the rule could be meant for (since as we already established, it's not for the HPA or stegadon).

EDIT: I went back and reread the thread, and I see where you're coming from with the "D3 instead of D6" point, Shivan. And that's really why I think the RAI means D3. BUT, RAW, i'd argue that the reference (even the "instead of") is granting the TK chariots a special rule... It's an artifact of how they've written the rulebook, and they could have easily FAQed it by just confirming that they have D3 rules (they FAQed dumber stuff).

I think the rule is written for creatures that get impact hits pulling a chariot. In which case you ignore the creatures impact hits and use just the chariots.

edit.. gonna re-read the rules before I weigh in.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Killjoy - nope, no I;m not.

You are ignoring Page 86 which states the army book will specify the number of impact hits. The army book DOES do this.

Nos, the part about the army book only refers to the previous sentence on scythes.

"Chariots are huge crushing contraptions - they have the Impact Hits d6 special rule. Some chariots are equipped with massive scythes and instead have impact hits d6+1. This will be specified in their entry."

None of that has any bearing on page 71, which says if "its troop type and special rules both bestow Impact Hits, use the highest set"

Like i said, i believe its there to address if a monster pulling a chariot were to cause impact hits, say 1 each, and the chariot does D6, you would use the D6 cause its higher.

Not a loophole to make tk chariots stronger

The lynch pin of the entire argument

Are Light Chariots a "troop type" if they aren't a "troop type" what are they?

If they are a troop type, they count as both, light chariots, and chariots (the reason they count as chariots is because the back of the BRB has them clearly listed as chariots, not light chariots.)

Now here's the problem, if they count as 2 troop types: Light chariots, and Chariots, the rules concerning impact hits... apply.

If they aren't a troop type.. then what is the "light chariots" classification?

Finally. I think that, that's a rather myopic argument Shivan. Because the chariot rules themselves say clearly you don't get stomp attacks.

Why would they post that twice?

I don't think it's a loophole. I think it's intent.

I think Kings Chariots now get d6 str4 hits per chariot.

Not that it means a damn. everyones got steadfast anyway.

If it were intent they would have ERRATAd the D3 rule away; they did not.

D3 instead of D6 seems fairly clear. You look at the chariot rules, find they get D6, then find this has been overridden by the TK book.

Specific TK rule > General BRB rule.

Except, RaW, the TK book references the BRB sections that don't exist anymore.

If this were 40k, you'd be the first arguing that the TK book reference is meaningless. It can't act like a chariot as listed on pages xx-yy except that... because that reference is now meaningless. Instead there is a whole new set of rules references.

Tomb King chariots, RaW, have a special rule granting them d3 impact hits and the rule Impact Hits (d6) due to their troop type. The BrB allows them to choose the higher when causing impact hits.

I agree RaI, they are really getting d3 and it should be played that way. But they should have FaQ'ed it. The page reference in the TK book should have been amended or deleted. If it said, TK chariots are chariots per the troop type, except that... then it woudl be RaW.