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I have been reading into fluff a lot lately and was wondering what the explosion from a bolt round was like. Is it like a frag grenade sending shrapnel everywhere, or is a shaped charge exploding in the direction it hits? I was thinking it was a shaped charge because it says that a bolt round is like a small missile but I wasn't sure.

Depends on the bolt round being used.

Based off of Dark Heresy, I would say the average bolter shell would be the latter-- a shaped charge, not fragmentation.

Melissia wrote:Based off of Dark Heresy, I would say the average bolter shell would be the latter-- a shaped charge, not fragmentation.

Respectfully, I disagree. Certainly AP bolter rounds would implement a shaped charge, more efficient armour penetration that way. However, since bolter rounds explode a fraction of a second after impact, a fragmentary explosion would increase the leathality of said round, as it would cause catastrophic damage to a greater portion of the targets body than a directional blast would.

You disagree, but I have a fluff citation to prove my point Frag grenades have an area effect in Dark Heresy. Bolters do not. If bolters use a fragmentation effect then it is an immensely weak one which is lesser than a frag grenade given to Guardsmen as standard equipment.

As stated, it depends on the round use. The standard round seems to be balanced with reasonable armor piercing capabilities but also with an explosive. It certainly must have some shrapnel, but not like a frag grenade.

Contrast this with the Kraken (armor piercing) rounds and Metal Storm (frag) rounds. The Metal Strom is notable for having a fragmentation effect much like a grenade, and can be set to air-burst.

Next you have the Hellfire round that also explodes, but with toxic needles, and the Infernal round which lights targets on fire.

Finally you have the Stalker round which is silenced, and the psycannon rounds for use against warp entities.

Mind you, outside of the Inquisition and Sternguard these rounds are all incredibly rare.

Don't forget the stalker pattern shells.

Melissia wrote:You disagree, but I have a fluff citation to prove my point Frag grenades have an area effect in Dark Heresy. Bolters do not. If bolters use a fragmentation effect then it is an immensely weak one which is lesser than a frag grenade given to Guardsmen as standard equipment.

Well, yeah. Bolter round does not equal frag grenade. A bolter round does not need a tremendous charge to effectively frak up the internal organs of the target.
Since you showed me your fluff I'll show you mine: Standard Bolts comprise the following components: Outer casing, propellant base, main charge, mass reactive detonator cap, depleted uranium core, diamantine tip.1 The standard bolter shell is standardised at .75 calibre, whereas heavy bolter rounds are larger, at 1.00 Cal.
Thanks usually right but occasionaly dubious Lexicanum!

I would imagine its like a fragmentation explosion, but pretty small in size.

I often think people over-state the size of bolt round explosions when they compare them to grenade launchers.I imagine the size of the explosion being a little smaller than an average person's head. If the explosions were comparable to that of a grenade launcher, it'd be pretty hard to use it on full auto, which, according to the fluff, they do.

If you're using regular boltgun ammo, I think it may be like a firework, but one of the strong ones. It's strong enough to rip a man's arm appart, so you can imagine...

The explosion is only about the size of your fist so the point is moot.

The thing is, a fire cracker can take of fingers if held, an m80 can remove a hand. A bolter explosion doesn't need to be very powerful to remove a limp or explode a chest. Just a 'little' explosive 'pop'.

Grenades on the other hand are area effect weapons designed to do do lethal damage in open air.

It's funny to hear people talk about the sivze of an explosion in terms of volume when explosions, y'know, expand (under the right circumstances, potentially infinitely).

Anyway, compared to a frag grenade a bolt very likely has both less actual mass to convert into shrapnel and a less energetic explosion.

I'm going to side with IronCross here. If you were holding a bolt and it went off (in the explosive, rather than propulsive way) you'd probably loose the hand, maybe the arm.

However - bolts are, by volume, mostly propellant and explosives, not metal, so there's going to be very little shrapnel. It's designed to explode inside the target where concussive force is all that's needed for a devastating explosion.

The standard bolter shell would fragment like a grenade, but with less shrapnel. It is designed to do so inside the target, so you don't get shrapnel flying everywhere, just dicing up the insides of the victim.

While we are on the topic, are the rounds used for a Heavy Bolter at all similar? It seems a bit of a fluff contradiction to me that regular bolters are rare weapons with expensive ammo, but you see Heavy Bolters all over the place. About the only reason I could come up with for this was that the expense of miniaturizing bolter ammo some how makes it more expensive...

Ruckdog wrote:While we are on the topic, are the rounds used for a Heavy Bolter at all similar? It seems a bit of a fluff contradiction to me that regular bolters are rare weapons with expensive ammo, but you see Heavy Bolters all over the place. About the only reason I could come up with for this was that the expense of miniaturizing bolter ammo some how makes it more expensive...

The miniaturization would factor into the rarity of bolter rounds, but also the fact that it is the principle weapon of Space Marines, not IG. The heavy bolter on the other hand is mounted on many Imperial vehicles and also used by IG heavy weapon teams, so it's ammo would be more plentiful due to it's wider use.

That's probably the best explanation for it anyway. All Imperial forces use them, hell even Nobles occasionally use them (Though heavy stubbers are more common for civilians).

Based up Dues Vult's Lexicon quote it sounds like a bolter round is actually a penitrator round, and not an explosive round. It would be simmilier to a rocket propelled Sabot round used to kill tanks and heavy armor today, just scaled down about 150x

Ruckdog wrote:While we are on the topic, are the rounds used for a Heavy Bolter at all similar? It seems a bit of a fluff contradiction to me that regular bolters are rare weapons with expensive ammo, but you see Heavy Bolters all over the place. About the only reason I could come up with for this was that the expense of miniaturizing bolter ammo some how makes it more expensive...

Heavy Bolts are identical, save in caliber - 1", rather than .75. The aditional volume allows for greater propelant and a larger mass-reactive warhead which account for the greater range and destructive potential. The Heavy Bolter itself is more massive than a normal boltgun, able to take greater stress and thus has a higher rate of fire.

It seems, in fact, plausable that there are more heavy bolters in total than boltguns.

the reason boltguns are rare is because they are:

a) Sacred.

b) Very hard to use effectively - especially without power armour.


Oh, and it's worth mentioning, the .75 bolt fired by the Godwyn (and Godwyn-Diaz) pattern boltgun is not the smallest around. There are a number of lighter, more manageable low-caliber boltgun patterns designed for those without power armour.

It seems likely that he bolt pistols issued to guard officers and the like are smaller caliber too - though I cannot back that up with fluff.

double post, sorry.

Azezel wrote:

Ruckdog wrote:While we are on the topic, are the rounds used for a Heavy Bolter at all similar? It seems a bit of a fluff contradiction to me that regular bolters are rare weapons with expensive ammo, but you see Heavy Bolters all over the place. About the only reason I could come up with for this was that the expense of miniaturizing bolter ammo some how makes it more expensive...

Heavy Bolts are identical, save in caliber - 1", rather than .75. The aditional volume allows for greater propelant and a larger mass-reactive warhead which account for the greater range and destructive potential. The Heavy Bolter itself is more massive than a normal boltgun, able to take greater stress and thus has a higher rate of fire.

It seems, in fact, plausable that there are more heavy bolters in total than boltguns.

the reason boltguns are rare is because they are:

a) Sacred.

b) Very hard to use effectively - especially without power armour.


Oh, and it's worth mentioning, the .75 bolt fired by the Godwyn (and Godwyn-Diaz) pattern boltgun is not the smallest around. There are a number of lighter, more manageable low-caliber boltgun patterns designed for those without power armour.

It seems likely that he bolt pistols issued to guard officers and the like are smaller caliber too - though I cannot back that up with fluff.

And if yourbad ass like Harker and Try Again Bragg, you can carry it like a Large Rifle... WIN!

Azezel wrote:It seems likely that he bolt pistols issued to guard officers and the like are smaller caliber too - though I cannot back that up with fluff.

Dark Heresy lists them as all .75 cal (save for heavy bolters), but that doesn't mean they're the same sized shells.

In that game, standard human-sized bolt weapons do (2d10 pick the highest)+5 damage, while Astartes bolters do a flat 2d10+5 damage, at least IIRC. Which indicates that, while they are the same caliber, they are by no means the same shells.

The bolt round is made to Penetrate Armour just like the space marines using the Bolter wear so in other words the bolt is supposed to go through the Armour and inside of the target then explode like a small grenade instead of doing what any other ole bullet will

So from what i'm getting a STANDARD .75 bolt round creates a small concussive blast (similar to and M80) which also sends a small amout of shrapnel throughout the body cutting organs and the like while also ripping off limbs and creating large gaping wounds in the torso (or popping heads) In other words to get shot with a bolt round means almost certain death either through massive blunt trauma, massive blood loss, and/or destroyed organs.

As much as I liked the bolter in Fire Warrior, I like to imagine it as much more of a shaped charge or incendiary sabot round. It could certainly blow a limb or head off, messily, and make good ol' hole right through you if you're unfortunate enough to get hit in the torso, to go with the concussive force of the initial impact.

It might not be enough to punch through heavier armour, but given the force of the impact may very well take you out of action.

Melissia wrote:

Azezel wrote:It seems likely that he bolt pistols issued to guard officers and the like are smaller caliber too - though I cannot back that up with fluff.

Dark Heresy lists them as all .75 cal (save for heavy bolters), but that doesn't mean they're the same sized shells.

In that game, standard human-sized bolt weapons do (2d10 pick the highest)+5 damage, while Astartes bolters do a flat 2d10+5 damage, at least IIRC. Which indicates that, while they are the same caliber, they are by no means the same shells.

I'm familiar with DH, but I count it as a tertiary source. In any event, I believe that most bolt pistols use smaller shells simply because there is an upper limit to the number of .75 lumps of uranium one can cram into a magazine and still be able to wield it one-handed.

It also explains why bolt pistols have a shorter range than boltguns - smaller shells contain less propellant. Again though, this is not supported by fluff.

Fluff which I have always taken as 50% in-universe imperial proppaganda. They'd tell you that every guardsman was armed with an ordinatus cannon if they thought they could get away with it.

Azezel wrote:I'm familiar with DH, but I count it as a tertiary source.

GW sent its own personal writers (such as Andy Hoare and Dan Abnett) to write on Dark Heresy along with FFG's own crew. It's a damn good source.

The Shock Wave and G-Forces are ment to cause the distruction, kinda like the same effect of a Powerfist, but on a smaller scale. However, I can understand your confusion. Diffrent books describe them different ways

JDM wrote:The Shock Wave and G-Forces are ment to cause the distruction, kinda like the same effect of a Powerfist, but on a smaller scale. However, I can understand your confusion. Diffrent books describe them different ways

Er, no. It explodes. That's about all there is to it. It makes a hole in you and goes bang.

A power fist relies on powerful servos and a 'power field' which 'destabilises/disintergrates matter' whatever that means.