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I just picked up the codex, and it doesn't look like there are many availiable options for big strong tank killing besides tankhammers. Maybe a zzap gun, but that sounds too unpredictable. I could take a bunch of p klaws but thats just s8 at most for nobs. Am I missing something?

PK Nobz are S9 on the charge and PK Warbosses are S10. Another good option is a Deff Rolla or three. Tankbustas are garbage, I would never use them.

DEFF ROLLA!

D6 S10 hits is gonna do something to a Land Raider.

But then you have to physically drive the deffrolla up and tank shock the land raider! Chances are they are going to shoot at it before it gets there. Anything work with range?

Why do tankbustas not work?

Tankbustas don't work because if your opponent parks his rhino in front of the LR, you have to shoot that.

Orks have no reliable S9+ ranged weaponry. Your best bet is to zoom up to it in a Trukk and boarding plank it or ram the feth out of it with a Deff Rolla.

Well I'm planning a warbike army and needed to bring something that can take down the heavies. I think I'm going to have to rely on power klaws of nobs on the charge? Seems like an expensive tank killer unit.

Deffkoptas work wonders against lighter tanks so you can save the Nobz for the Bigguns.

Deffdreads also work wonders suprisingly if you screen them just right and load them with DCCWs, and thier cheaper than canz, although kanz will work to, just get them into melee.

Im not sure about deffdreads because of the armor value and the low initiatve. I play a lot of MC's and tyranids and deamons so I need something that can survive.

In a biker list, probably no Deff Dreads. A Kan wall would be great against LRs, as would a mech list with a few Deffrolla wagons, sure youhave to get close, but I'd gladly sacrifice a BW to take out a Land Raider.

With DCCWs or Deffollas, It'll be tough. A Biker boss is pretty good.

I'd suggest you take some Kans, they might seem odd in an otherwise fast list, but the can still give you a lot of other thngs other than just anti LR.

Also, this article has some useful advice on how to handle AV 14 with Orks.

http://bloodofkittens.com/2010/02/10/ork-defense-force-av-14-why-orks-dont-care/

Deffrollaz on a BW seem like the best way to me. Perhaps some DCCWs. Any other way, you are looking at glancing one to death. I don't play orks, though...I normally field the LRs

Try kustom mega-blastas + buzzsaws on deffkoptas,

4+ to glance, 6 to penetrate on the KMB, then get into assault with a power klaw!

I know they are fragile and there is the gets hot! rule but a mob of 3 is pretty cheap and quick across the field, zip over ASAP, get off a round of shooting, if that doesn't pop it get straight into assault with it, should take it out, even if it doesn't your bound to get at least 1 immobilised or a couple of weapon destroyed results to cripple it

doesn't a buzzsaw cap at str 7....

Leigen_Zero wrote:Try kustom mega-blastas + buzzsaws on deffkoptas,

4+ to glance, 6 to penetrate on the KMB, then get into assault with a power klaw!

I know they are fragile and there is the gets hot! rule but a mob of 3 is pretty cheap and quick across the field, zip over ASAP, get off a round of shooting, if that doesn't pop it get straight into assault with it, should take it out, even if it doesn't your bound to get at least 1 immobilised or a couple of weapon destroyed results to cripple it

A: KMB = Str 8. So it's a 5+ to hit (No re-rolls) and a 6 to glance. So a 5.5% of doing anything to the Land Raider and 8.333% of wounding yourself.

B: Buzzsaws are Str 7 so it's a 7+ to glance.

That is what I thought.

Orks are, for better or worse, pretty abysmally lacking in ranged anti-tank, particularly against AV13 and especially AV14.

Practically speaking, the only things that can do it are all so random that it's not worth trying to build an army around. Weirdboyz, Shokk Attack Guns, and Zzap Guns are the only things that can generate strength 9 or better ranged attacks, and all of them are either random strength or only randomly get to shoot.

You can hope to glance things to death with S8 Rokkits or KMBs, but Tankbustas are the only way to get S8 Rokkits in even close to the sort bulk you'd need to hope to seriously damage a Land Raider or Monolith, and they have their own issues (they can be good, but they require exceedingly careful finesse in play to avoid their drawbacks).

Practically, DCCWs, PKs (especially on bosses), and Deffrollas are the only semi-reliable ways to get the S9/10 needed to kill Land Raiders.

Of those, only the Deffrolla does not suffer if the other vehicle is moving fast. d6 S10 auto hits if you can contact at all, plus the Ram (S5 to 9 itself) is your best bet for any sort of quick kill.

I personally tend to rely on squads of MegaNobz for anti-LR. 3-4 MANz at S9 on the charge can pretty typically generate a pen or two against an LR. With a Boss in the squad, the odds go up to (to be technically precise) "pretty likely".

Claypool wrote:Tankbustas don't work because if your opponent parks his rhino in front of the LR, you have to shoot that.

Uh, no. You don't have to shoot/assault the nearest vehicle; you just can only shoot/assault a vehicle if there is ANY in line of sight. If there are multiple targets, you still get to choose.

Don't get me wrong. Tankbustas still are meh, but don't cripple them any more than they are already are.

Orks don't have much that can hurt AV13/14 at range. Just concede this point and move on. It's not a big deal, many armies don't have the luxury of long range anti-AV14. Deffrollas and PKs are fine; they have the same effective range as a meltagun, more or less, so just use it already!

These are the exact reasons to use a land raider against orks

Battlewagons with Deffrollaz are really the only "reliable" way to do it. My buddy runs two in his list, and they are top prioirity to cut down before they get deffrollin'

Claypool wrote:

Leigen_Zero wrote:Try kustom mega-blastas + buzzsaws on deffkoptas,

4+ to glance, 6 to penetrate on the KMB, then get into assault with a power klaw!

I know they are fragile and there is the gets hot! rule but a mob of 3 is pretty cheap and quick across the field, zip over ASAP, get off a round of shooting, if that doesn't pop it get straight into assault with it, should take it out, even if it doesn't your bound to get at least 1 immobilised or a couple of weapon destroyed results to cripple it

A: KMB = Str 8. So it's a 5+ to hit (No re-rolls) and a 6 to glance. So a 5.5% of doing anything to the Land Raider and 8.333% of wounding yourself.

B: Buzzsaws are Str 7 so it's a 7+ to glance.

My apologies, haven't used deffkoptas in a LONG time, forgot they had just a boyz profile with an extra wound!

In that case, I'm going to recommend zagstruk and a max size unit of stormboyz, that should pop open a land raider quite well (if he turns up on time!)

Orks dont have any reliable ranged AV 14. But what they lack in range they make up in melee. The two main threats that you meet with AV 14 all round is the LR and the Monolith. The monolith is not a scary as it only gets to move 6" so you are always hitting on 4+
LR are really scary as they get to move 12" and fire all shorts of gak due to the Machine Spirit.
As most people have pointed out the Deffrolla is your best shot followed by a Bikerwarboss. After that anything that gets lost of PK (nobz, meganobz) or DCCW (Squad of Kanz, DeffDread) attacks.
Zagstruk is a bad idea as a) he is vastly more expensive and only gets 1 more attack than a regular nob b) the footprint that he requires to deepstrike is quite big which may lead to mishaps c)if he scatters when deepstriking he can scatter right out of assault range. He basically is just as unreliable as the SAG, the Zap gun or the weirboy

PS! Tankbustaz have to attack A tank if in line of sight, not THE CLOSEST tank. They can actually work quite nicely in a Battlewagon however not vs AV 14

tldr wrote:But then you have to physically drive the deffrolla up and tank shock the land raider!

Actually you need to Ram it, otherwise you stop short.

Claypool wrote:
A: KMB = Str 8. So it's a 5+ to hit (No re-rolls) and a 6 to glance. So a 5.5% of doing anything to the Land Raider and 8.333% of wounding yourself.

A Continued - This also means you miss out on TLRL = Str 8. So it's a 5+ to hit (re-rolls~!) and a 6 to glance. So a 11% of doing anything to the Land Raider and 0% of wounding yourself. Know it's obvoius but spelling it out always helps

Deffrollas.

Kans.

Boarding planks.

Boarding Planks are no different than assaulting a BW with a nob are they? Same strength and all that? You just get to stay inside you vehicle, right?

'Cept the BW has 12 side armor. If I remember right, the LR is 14 on sides as well.

Nantukoshade wrote:Boarding Planks are no different than assaulting a BW with a nob are they? Same strength and all that? You just get to stay inside you vehicle, right?

Yes. Plus since it's not technically an "assault," things like walkers don't get to swing back. Throw your PK/tankhammer at them and enjoy. Counter-intuitive and strange? Yes, but that's GW for you.

Sometimes you just gotta kill that land raider...

Sometimes its better to just kill everything else in his army and ignore that land raider!!!

I like Zagstruck, plus if you manage to surround the doors with the rest of Zag's delivery system (stormboyz become the sacrificial lambs to get Zag into combat) then potentially you can wipe out the inhabitants of the Land Raider as they can't disembark.

Am I right? Does that trick work?

According to the INAT v4.0, yes. If all of the disembarking points are surrounded, then the unit is destroyed, as they can't move through enemy units to get out of the vehicle when forced to disembark. The one bit I'm fuzzy on, is they mention placing the units in the footprint of the vehicle when destroyed, at which case, given the size of the LR, I think it is possible to disembark a 5 man unit, be within the footprint, and not within 1" of enemy units.

If the INAT really says that then its incorrect. Just blocking the doors will not kill the units. You have to surround the whole thing, not just the access points.

I'm sorry. It said if the whole vehicle was surrounded. You're correct. I didn't type that out clearly enough.