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Greetings!

I have been out of the hobby for a long time (roughly 8 years), I have kept up to date as best I can and I think the new edition of WHFB will bring me out of retirement.

I have drawn up an Army that I will start collecting as I want some advice/criticisms/abuse before I start collecting, I have still to get the rulebook as well so any advice on how to play the army would be welcome,

Anyhow, list as follows.

*Lord*
Highborn
-forest dragon
-Bow of Loren
-Stone of Crystal Mere
-Arcane Bodkins
-Enchanted Shield
-Light armour
-Great weapon

*Heroes*
Noble
-BSB
-Banner of Dwindling
-Light Armour

Noble
-Dawnspear
-Light Armour
-Shield

Lvl 2 Spellsinger
-2xdispel scrolls

Lvl 2 Spellsinger
-Cluster of Radients
-Divination Orb

*Core*
2x20 Glade Guard
-muscian/standard

24 Eternal Guard
-full Command
-Warbanner

15 Dryads
-Branchwraith

*Special*
15 Wardancers
-Full Command

6 Treekin

*Rare*
2xGreat Eagles

Total 3000pts

I have read a lot about how good treemen are but couldn't find the points any suggestions?

Thanks for Listening and remeber be gentle it is my first post!

tbh the lord on dragon isn't the best idea. It's a nice idea but relying on the stone of crystal mere is very risky. Especially considering if you get into combat the lord is going to take a lot of damage and fail that save quickly, and if you were going for a ranged lord the dragon is a big waste.
The BSB seems very odd to me, you have a banner to do with winning combat and having your enemy flee, however you don't have any units that are likely to make use of this to put him in. Also if there is a round of close combat he is going to die.
The last noble is allright even if easy to kill.

Spellsinger time.... spellsingers suck now. The Lore of Athel Loren is bad and it is the only one they can use. Dispel scrolls are 1 per army and A Cluster of Radiants can only be taken on treeman ancients and branchwraiths; therefore both your spellsingers are illegal.

Your core isn't bad I use glade guard in units of 10 but that is only a preference thing.

I would trim down your wardancer unit. They die very easily and don't get rank bonus, so it is better to have basically a front rank + a couple spares. Get the maximum attacks out of them and make them less appealing for your opponent to focus on.

It is good you have the Great Eagles since you don't have any scouts or fast cavalry to get at artillery/gun lines or other similar things.

Treeman are great and are 285 points. (It has been my most consitent unit in 8th)

Right okay time for a big rethink,

what would the best combo be for the Lord then on Dragon? (kind of want a big centre piece)
the original idea behind him was to snipe at high armour units (knights etc), and charge him in only when another unit was there, (my understanding is elves are a bit squishy)

also both spellsingers illegal? take it I can only take the one dispel scroll?

was thinking of scrapping the BSB altogether (from what I have read only needed in lower Ld value armies)

would prefer to keep one spellsinger, I know the Lore sucks but kind of need some attempt at dispels, might trade one for a branchwrith with LvL 1 upgrade and the sprites.

So doing some quick maths in my head if I trim the wardancer unit down, get rid of BSB and scrap a spellsinger I might have enough room for a treeman.

Love it when a plan come together

Thanks for the advice, like I said been a while so will need some schooling.... the rulebook might help as well lol! roll on payday!

I often use an alter lord with the bow of loren and arcane bodkins for heavy army hunting but it isn't fantastic just fun. Spellweavers (lord lvl mage) can use lore of life or lore of beasts which are both fantastic lores - this is my go to lord choice. Or you could use a treeman ancient with sprites as a lord centre piece.

Yes only one dispell scroll and no cluster of radiants on elves. I use a branchwraith with the cluster of radiants but I don't bother with the lvl 1 upgrade. I do use one lvl 1 spellsinger aswell usually.

The BSB is still really good because it lets you re-roll ANY failed ld test. Before they were only for a select number of tests but now if you need a ld test you get a re-roll close to the BSB.

For my lords/heroes I use the heavy armour 4+ ward save 50 point common item on a highborn. The 4+ ward save 45 point common item on my spellweaver. And finally the Oaken Armour (light armour and 4+ regen) for 50 points on my BSB. It is about as good as you get with wood elves.

I do use my dragon rarely just because it looks cool, but really it is a bad choice.

Thanks for the advice, I do understand that the Dragon is a bad choice, but I kind of have my heart set on it, if I ever make a competitive list for tourney etc it will definitely be whipped out and the spellweaver will come in.

what I have done is make some changes to the list, I have broken up one of the units of Glade Guard into two smaller units (they at least have a rank and can nip into enemy flanks if needed) I have dropped one of the spellsingers and put in a branchwraith, I have dropped the BSB, finally I have reduced the size of the wardancers to make way for a Treeman,

I have also changed the Highborn on Dragon to make him more Combat orientated,

Don't have time to post the list now (damn work!!!) but will post it up when I get some time.

It's not necassarily a bad idea to have a Highborn on Forest Dragon, but you have to have a good save. I'd recommend Armour of Silvered Steel - 45pts - (This is in the new Rulebook section for new Common magic items), which grants a 2+ Armour Save, and perhaps take Spear of Twilight. You'd also wan't Helm of the Hunt. This means that your Highborn will have 5 Attacks at WS8 S5 Killing Blow, and then your Dragon attacks, and you're resilient, which is a change for Wood Elves!

Almost the exact idea I had for my Highborn,

don't have access to the new common magic items though so was going to use the 50pt heavy 4+ ward save item mentioned earlier by Pip, but yeah was thinking of the spear of twilight and helm of the hunt.

you had any luck with that kind of set up?

Yes, I have. It's adept at providing support in a multi charge. Negating their ranks and inflicting lots of casualties always swings the combat one way . . . yours. By the way, you can have Armour of Silvered Steel, all the Warhammer Armies can use the new Common Magic Items in the Warhammer Rule Book.

Sorry meant to say I don't have access to the rulebook yet so don't know what common magic items are available,

still working on the final list but some advise, would it be advisable to stick the spellsinger in a unit of glade guard for protection or having him roaming free?

away this weekend so I might not be able to reply until Monday but please keep the advice coming.

helm of hunt and the 2+ armour save together is not legal.

when I use my dragon it is simply helm of the hunt with light armour shield and a dragon giving you a 3+ save.

Edit: dragon also doesn't negate ranks.

Looking forward to seeing a revised list! I definitely say keep the forest dragon in there, but if you do you'll want to go magic defense, not offense- so I'd put in a branchwraith with cluster of radiants, and a spellsinger with divination orb. Speaking of which:

That item is AWESOME now! People will be throwing more than 3 dice at spells all the time, so it will definitely come in to play! With that and the cluster of radiants, you should have a good shot at magic defense. You might as well make the spellsinger a level 2 to get +2 to your dispel attempts as well. I would not upgrade the branchwraith to be a wizard, though, just give it the cluster of radiants (and perhaps annoyance of nettlings if you're not putting it anywhere else in the list).

I like your unit choices. Why 20 in the glade guard? I assume you're going 10x2, but you could go with four units of 5x2 to make them easier to deploy, and to give you more drops to see where your opponent is placing his heavy hitters before bringing out yours. I like the treekin, eagles, wardancers, and dryads (although I think 14 is better than 15, if you want to go 7 x 2, since they move as a loose block now) and eternal guard (although I'd add a rank if you can). Shouldn't that extra noble be eternal kindred, though, so that that block will always be stubborn?

I'll try adding up a list with these units a bit later, like I said I like the feel a lot! It's not super competitive, imho, but it's solid, fun, and diverse . Should be a lot of fun to play, I think!

Eternal guard are stubborn if joined by a highborn or noble. It does not require the highborn or noble to be an eternal guard kindred.

Ah, good catch! In that case, I might consider dropping the other noble to add numbers to the eternal guard.

Also, can a wood elf BSB take spites along with a magic banner? I see that he can't take "other magic items" with a magic banner, but I'm not sure about spites. It's probably in the FAQ somewhere... if he could, annoyance of nettlings would be perfect to try to keep him safe in combat.

If not, I'd consider dropping the magic banner and getting him some survival gear. He's going to be target number 1 once they're in combat!

As the book doesn't state that you're not allowed to take Spites, I'd say go ahead and take them. It just says you're not allowed to take Magic Items. An Annoyance of Netlings is of course a possibility.

I think I am missing something here. You can allocate your attacks to any model in base to base contact... so it is easy to have 6 20mm based guys or 4 25mm based guys say they are attacking the bsb.

Pip's right, models in base-to-base with the character can allocate their attacks to their characters (as well as supporting attacks from models behind them). That's why a lot of people won't be taking champions in units in 8th edition- it lets the character "challenge their way to safety" so to speak... especially with an item like annoyance of nettlings!

except there is no downside to declining with a champion... I think most people won't take them since for the points 1 extra attack is usually not worth it.

True- I'm thinking of WoC where you can't refuse the challenge!

Thanks for the advice folks,

RiTides - yeah the list isn't meant to be too competitive just a fun thing to collect and model to reintroduce myself to the Hobby after a long hiatus, also the point in the Noble with the dawnspear was just to be annoying as with a high Initiative I would strike first and anyone attacking back would be striking on 4/5 at best. thought it sounded nice on paper!

I really need to get my hands on the new rulebook to check out the new common magic items section I am sure there is a couple of banners etc that maybe useful.

away to Leeds this weekend (nothing hobby related though, me and my fiancée show dogs) so wont get round to writing a new list until Sunday will post Monday morning though!

Alright, I might come up with one before then and put it here for your perusal .

I have used a wildrider noble on great stag quite a few times with the dawnspear. For some reason, I can't remember ever getting the benefit from it . I think he usually got caught in challenges, but obviously you could just accept/decline with the unit champion.

It's not a bad idea, and I'd be interested to see if it works out in-game!

okay here is the revised list, hopefully everything is legal this time!

Highborn - forest dragon, Spear of Twilight, Healm of the Hunt, Armour of Destiny (565)

Noble - Eternl Kindred, Dawnspear (115)

Noble - BSB, Armour of Silvered Steel (135)

Lvl 2 Spellsinger - Dispel Scroll, Divination Orb (175)

Branchwraith - Cluster of Radients (90)

10 Glade Guard - muscian/standard (138)

10 Glade Guard - muscian/standard (138)

10 Glade Guard - muscian/standard (138)

24 Eternal Guard - Full Command, Warbanner (343)

14 Dryads - Bracnh Nymph (180)

10 Wardancers - full command (201)

6 Treekin (390)

2xGreat Eagles (100)

Treeman (285)

total points = 2993

any suggestions/advice??

again thanks for your help guys


Automatically Appended Next Post:
just had a quick look at the army again and thought of dropping two dryads for an extra two Eternal Guard (can then deploy them 7x4 when BSB and Noble join) any thoughts on this set up?

The most important thing here is that your list is illegal.

Both your Highborn and Spellsinger have 2 of 1 type of magic item which is not allowed. Also you are wasting points on your non-bsb noble. Having a magic weapon negates the eternal guard fighting style so the points you spent on eternal kindred are wasted.

Other than that the list isn't half bad. Swap the Armour of Destiny for the Stone of Crystal Mere to make the highborn legal, also make sure you pay for a shield on him. 3+/3+ aint half bad. Don't spend the points on eternal kindred just buy the guy light armour and shield to go with the dawnspear; or don't buy the dawnspear and just buy the eternal kindred. I would rather have armour of destiny on the BSB instead of armour of silvered steel. I would try out divination orb a few times, then dispell scroll you need to see which works better for you. Everything else looks quite good.

illegal again
I promise when I have the rulebook no more illegal lists! anyway you know what they say third time the charm!!
also I thought you could have magic weapons and the eternal kindred, must have misread the FAQ.

Highborn - forest dragon, Spear of Twilight, Healm of the Hunt, Stone of Crystal Mere, Light Armour, Shield (551)

Noble - Light Armour, Shield, Dawnspear (114)

Noble - BSB, Armour of Destiny (140)

Lvl 2 Spellsinger - Divination Orb (150)

Branchwraith - Cluster of Radients (90)

10 Glade Guard - muscian/standard (138)

10 Glade Guard - muscian/standard (138)

10 Glade Guard - muscian/standard (138)

28 Eternal Guard - Full Command, Warbanner (391)

13 Dryads - Bracnh Nymph (168)

10 Wardancers - full command (201)

6 Treekin (390)

2xGreat Eagles (100)

Treeman (285)

total points = 2994

hopefully this reads well this time, with the points saved I have managed to get some extra Eternal Guard, When the Noble and BSB join I can rank them up 10x3 which will dish out a lot of damage hopefully, will now just have to get some stuff ordered and see how the army plays

any more advice on offer?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
also with the BSB I have enough spare points to use either the armour of silvered steel or armour of destiny so, like your suggestion with the spellsinger Pip, will try a couple of games and see what works best.

I quite like the list now.

However I don't see the point in being 10x3 on the eternal guard; they attack in 3 ranks normally (spears) and being 10 wide just invites more things into combat at once. Not sure how I would set them up but I think I would still just leave it 6 wide 5 deep normally and reform wider against hordes.

I also have a feeling that the eternal guard will want to be deep, not wide. I also like the list, but am still wrapping my mind around that "extra" noble with the dawnspear. I'm just wishing you had another unit in there, and he seems to be the lowest hanging fruit as far as who to drop... but I can see why you want him in there, I actually like your strategy with the dawnspear more and more as I think about it. I've never seen it used like that, and it seems like a good way to keep your anvil alive longer!

If you decide to drop the branch nymph upgrade, you'd save 12 points to go with the 6 you already have, so 18. If so, I'd use those points to add a little more gear to your nobles- there is a 15 point, one-use 4+ ward save item that the dawnspear noble could afford. You could also give your highborn the enchanted shield (you go by the army book points cost, though, so I believe it's 15 not 10 for wood elves) or the cheaper charmed shield (5 points, ignores first hit suffered on a 4+ I believe, a good idea to protect him against a randomized shooting attack... although the enchanted shield is better overall, but more expensive, too!). But this is all just if you find a few points somewhere... I like it how it is!

I'd go for assembling this army, with the possibility of adding in one more unit if you decide to drop a hero.

can't use enchanted shield on highborn allready have the helm of the hunt. I don't mind the branch nymph myself its not bad at 12 points.

True, I actually like it in there, too- everything's got full command, so it fits nicely . I'm just worried about the low unit / model count, though!

yeah I kind of expected a low model count when I got that dragon firmly on my mind, also wanted your thoughts on the Lore of Athel Loren, i have noticed a potentially sweet spell in there called the Hidden Path

If I am reading the spell right if i could pull it off I could cast this on my Highborn and he will be immune to cannon fire, that's quite a nice survival strategy.

anyway I digress we are starting to talk tactics now!

If I was to expand the army further the obvious choice would be a spellweaver, maybe some waywatchers or scouts or even an alter Noble/Highborn, so much choice! anyway getting ahead of myself - to GW (or online related discount store ) I go.

Again guys thanks for the help, looking forward to discussing tactics next!

The Warstore is an excellent source as far as online discounts go . And that is a great idea about the dragon. You have some interesting thoughts / tactics, and it's refreshing! There are so many combinations possible in armies, and you often see the same ones repeated... it's probably even more effective to come up with your own, though, since people won't see it coming!

My only thought on your expansion note- it's more characters! I know people add characters to armies once they get up to higher point levels, but I tend to take a minimum, or take them and swap them instead of adding. I'm still suspecting we will be seeing a lot less characters per army in 8th! But (getting off my anti-character soapbox) the waywatchers would be a nice addition, imho

Would definitely be interested in getting a tactical wood elves thread going about some of these ideas!

Thank you RiTides, when you have the Army book but lack of money (damn responsibilities!!!!) you get a lot of time to think about Tactics

I have many more interesting/useless ideas that I have thought of but will wait until Friday (my payday and day of buying the rulebook) to start a thread,

I am now going to spend the next couple of days scoring brownie points with the Mrs to convice her we do have the spare cash for my army