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Ive been playing orks for a few months now and have several lists designs, one which is an alpha strike list that i use to great effect...i have a dred mob list but my brother and friends say it wont work, any thoughts are accepted...:
(this is a 2000pt llist)

HQ-
Big mek-120 (x2)
(KKF, PK, Evy arm, Cybork bod)

TROOPS-
Boys Mob-255 (x2)
(30 boys, 1 nob w/ PK, evy arm, and bp, 3 rokkits)

Deff dred-110 (x2)
(armor plates, grot riggers, cc arm, and skorcha

FAST ATTACK-
Deff Koptas- 150 (x3)
(3tl rokkits, 1 big bomm)

HEAVY SUPPORT-
Killa Kans- 195 (x3)
(3 ap, 3gr, 2 rokkits, 1 grot zooka)

any suggestions as to why or why not this wont work

Because you're spending a quarter of your army on Deffkoptas.

Take three deffkoptas, three. Each with TL Rokkits and a Buzzsaw and put each on in a seperate Fast Attack slot.

Your Big Meks do not need a PK or 'eavy Armor.

Boyz mobz don't need rokkits and your nobz don't need 'eavy Armor. Also, there should be 3x30 boyz in your list.

Dread looks good.

You need nine kans, nine. 6 with Rokkits and 3 with Grotzookas. Armor plates and grot riggers are absolutely worthless. There is literally no use in taking them at all in any way shape or form. Go read the rulebook about vehicles in squadrons.

Everythings in multiples (like this), rokkits are good on boyz for the anti mech lists, i have the armor and grot riggers on the kans for wen they become a one man team, i know the squadron rules...and the big meks, attach them to the boyz mobz for extra klaws, and the armor on the nobz and meks just make them harder to kill

Ok, so with the Kans you don't want to mix weapons in a mob because you will waste shots on differing targets.

You're spending 135pts on upgrades that only become useful when you lose 90pts of them......

3 Rokkits in a boy mob have an 8% chance of wrecking or exploding AV 12, is that really worth 30pts?

So me, your brother, and your friends say this list won't work and you disagree with everything I said.... Good Luck then!

Rokkits the way i use them usually smash aside most vehicles, the grot zookas can still glance AV12, but i might reconsider the armor and grot riggers though for some lootas... and i usually dont follow wat others say i should do, and that always works with me...i may take some suggestions though

The grotzookas may be able to glance AV 12 but why wouldn't you want another shot that can penetrate AV 12?

And please enlighten me to this magical way you use Rokkits that allows you a greater than 8% wreck rate.

For the grot zookas i get 2 shots instead of one, and for the rokkits lets just say i dont hesitate and they come in large numbers in my lists

For justice! lol Claypool knows what I am on about, private joke!

Right, list help...

Claypool is right about your 'Kopters. Kill just one and they take morale because that's 33.3% of the unit killed they fail and bye-bye Kopters. Take them in singles and use them to alpha strike a target first turn. Fire rokkits or then assault, you only need three seperate Kopters though not 3 x 3 for this.

You don't need the 'eavy armour for the Big Mek because he'd be with the Boyz. I would get another Big Mek with the points so your army isn't bunched up.

Oh, you need more Boyz too. Remove eavy armour on the Nobz because he's got 29 wounds. Rokkits are ok because you can pop a tank and then follow up with the assault if you're close enough.

I'd probably lose the Deff Dread. Single unit type can't claim objectives either, it's not doing a lot. For a little bit more you can get 10 x Lootas which give long range anti tank and also go with your Big Mek theme too

Your Kanz I'd put rokkits on for some BS3 anti tank, will work well and the Kanz will be in front of the Boyz too so that bit closer. Grotzooka may fire two shots but it's only S7 and I cannot remember the AP. Oh, you don't need armour plates either.

the zookas only S6 Ap5 and i am considering taking the upgrades off the kans for lootas, the two dreds i like to have for more...welll walkers, the koptas are for anittank/what ever can hurt my walkers good/alpha strike annoyances , even though they have rokkits....they also help knock down big bugs, i have two meks in the list for the two mobz...and i know they dont stack but its for the mob effect....i take the armor on the nobz and meks because i usually have my mobz get wounded by only one shot, for some reason....

You really need another mob of boyz and dropping some koptas would allow you to do that.

I'm just going to chime in as a voice from someone who would face a Kan Wall like this across the table. At 1500 points, 3 Deff Koptas and 75-90 Boyz is MUCH more intimidating than 9 Deff Koptas and 60 boyz.

As a Space Wolf Player, I can tell you that in many the case, your Kans can be dismantled VERY quickly and when you're left with only 60 boys to rely on crossing the board...it is not a pretty sight.

In all honesty, the armor is a huge waste of points just to buff the save on bodies that will be swept away in swathes by the amount of firepower some armies carry. 6 Rokkits and 3 Grotzookas backed up by a Deff Kopta Rush will tangle up a good portion of armor while the 90 boys in the back can obliterate any other resistance just by shear numbers.

XYRYXYR wrote:the zookas only S6 Ap5 and i am considering taking the upgrades off the kans for lootas, the two dreds i like to have for more...welll walkers, the koptas are for anittank/what ever can hurt my walkers good/alpha strike annoyances , even though they have rokkits....they also help knock down big bugs, i have two meks in the list for the two mobz...and i know they dont stack but its for the mob effect....i take the armor on the nobz and meks because i usually have my mobz get wounded by only one shot, for some reason....

Yeah drop the grotzooka it's not that good.

Ah yes, my mistake on the units. You should list them out so easier to read

Ditch six 'Kopters get more Boyz and some Lootas and you've be spot on

XYRYXYR wrote:Rokkits the way i use them usually smash aside most vehicles, the grot zookas can still glance AV12, but i might reconsider the armor and grot riggers though for some lootas... and i usually dont follow wat others say i should do, and that always works with me...i may take some suggestions though

This is propably the worng place to not follow what others say.

If you are dead set on using the list... use it. In my opinion it will fail against any decent list and general but its your army, not mine. Claypool and Mercer have given some good advice. I run a Kan wall and its crushes everything except bugs.

If you want suggestions, look to what others have told you and I'll outlien some points.

1)More boys. Kan walls do not work by the kans killing everything, they work by providing cover to the hoard of boys behind them and popping transports.
2)Drop all upgrades on the big meks besides the KFF - their role is to provide cover. As IC they can be singled out in combat - which means that even with a 5++ they will often die before swinging the PK. If you really want him to be good in hth - try giving him a burna and cybork - on the charge you will swing at init 4 with a str 5 power wpn.
3)Drop all upgrades on the Kans - Claypool already pointed out why
4)One kopta or 5 koptas in a squad - I run them as singles. With rokkits and a buzzsaw they are a great alpha strike suicide unit.
5)If you are not to worried about winning - keep the dreads. The sad truth is that they just aren't worth the points. Against other dreads they die first to faster init. You don't need them for troops - that's what your boys and kans are for. The kans nad pk bos can handle vehicles just fine. They fit the theme but don't pay off in the end. For the price of the 2 dreads +15 pts you can have 30 shoota boys with 3 big shootas and a nob with PK and bosspole.

ill consider this all, for this mob of kan...ill consider the ideas thougH

I see one thing people have miss thus far, the Grot rigger on your Kans are useless as the squad ruling state that once you have a immobilzed walker in a squad it is destroy, just some food for thought there.

Alastergrimm wrote:I see one thing people have miss thus far, the Grot rigger on your Kans are useless as the squad ruling state that once you have a immobilzed walker in a squad it is destroy, just some food for thought there.

Already covered....

Keep the 9 Deffkoptas. 9 Koptas are amazing. I have seen space wolf long fangs never fire a shot because of them. Scout move, shoot, assault the Fangs. 3 Units of 1 can't do that, but 3 units of 9 can.

You can saturate the board with them in the scout move and there is no where to hide for the enemy tanks. If you don't go first, then outflank them and your opponent has 18 toughness 5 wounds coming in, somewhere, to help turn the tide.

I want to say the 2nd place finisher at Ard Boyz Chicago had 3 units of 3 Koptas. I know he runs tham regularly in the monthly tournament and does well with them.

DarthDiggler wrote:Keep the 9 Deffkoptas. 9 Koptas are amazing. I have seen space wolf long fangs never fire a shot because of them. Scout move, shoot, assault the Fangs. 3 Units of 1 can't do that, but 3 units of 9 can.

You can saturate the board with them in the scout move and there is no where to hide for the enemy tanks. If you don't go first, then outflank them and your opponent has 18 toughness 5 wounds coming in, somewhere, to help turn the tide.

I want to say the 2nd place finisher at Ard Boyz Chicago had 3 units of 3 Koptas. I know he runs tham regularly in the monthly tournament and does well with them.

9 Koptas can indeed be devastating, but the problem in this list is that he's trading boyz for the points to get those Koptas. Kan Walls effectively need 90 boyz. They just don't function well with any amount less. Boyz before toyz always applies.

You only need 3 in seperate units. There's just as many places to hide for vehicles for 9 Kopters or 3 because they all have to fire at the same target, which is 3 possible targets same as the 3 Kopters.

A single Kopter can tackle Long Fangs reasonaby well being T5 and swinging a power klaw S7 givnig them a good smacking.

I found koptas are usefull for outflanking aroud vehicles and hiting them with there twin linked rokits in the read armour

The 2nd place finisher in 'ard boyz had 500 more points to work with...

I run 9 koptas fairly regularly and they do pretty well

The only thing I see really wrong with this list are the Deff Dreads. I myself had the same idea as you when i made a Kan wall list and was blown away by how awesome 11 Walkers looked on the table....to bad my dreads NEVER made it to CC....Ever. They were a huge waste of points and even if they did make it into CC, they dont really do anything special that another 30 boyz couldnt do.

Also, you NEED 90 Boyz in a Kan Wall list. If you dont take any other advice from anyone, take that one. 60 Boyz just wont cut it...period. Nothing more to say. Sometimes 90 even feels a bit to low for my taste.

The deff kopta issue is personal preference. I havent had to much luck running them as singles only because the 1 TL rocket shot you get doesn't hit very often, but the buzz saw does kind of make up for it. The ideal scenario in my mind with koptas though would be to pop the armor with rockets then assault the squad inside, if its a transport that is. So really i would say just to play test and do what you want with those. I actually prefer 3 to a squad as well, but only giving 1 a buzz saw out of each squad.

Hope this Helped

-Bad Sheep

mercer wrote:
A single Kopter can tackle Long Fangs reasonaby well being T5 and swinging a power klaw S7 givnig them a good smacking.

That single Kopter will get hit by 14 attacks before it swings (as long as the fangs make their counter assault roll). Are you sure it's going to survive to swing with the Powerklaw?

14 attacks, 1/2 hit, 1/3 wound, 1/2 saved. So on average, it'll take one wound....

1/2 will never hit, 1/3 will never wound and 1/2 will never save. That's the wonderful thing about averages, they are averages. Derek Jeter bats .300. His average is 30%. He will never hit .300 in a game, never. Sometimes he hits .500 (2/4) and sometimes he hits .000 (0/4). He hits .500 more often than .000.

14 dice are a lot of dice to roll. There is a better chance of getting a statistical anomaly with the more dice you throw.

DarthDiggler wrote:14 dice are a lot of dice to roll. There is a better chance of getting a statistical anomaly with the more dice you throw.

That's actually not true at all. The larger the sample, the more likely the result will tend to the average. You have a greater chance of rolling all sixes with 4 dice than with 14.

But we're not interested in rolling 100% 6's, just rolling 4 6's. Who has a better chance of rolling 4 6's? Four dice or fourteen dice?

Who has a better chance of getting 2 wounds through to the Kopter? 4 attacks or 14?

DarthDiggler wrote:But we're not interested in rolling 100% 6's, just rolling 4 6's. Who has a better chance of rolling 4 6's? Four dice or fourteen dice?

Who has a better chance of getting 2 wounds through to the Kopter? 4 attacks or 14?

I'm just making the point that, on average, a Kopta will survive 14 attacks by Long Fangs. And my other point, or fact, is that the more dice you roll, the more likely you are to roll an average number.

And the overall point of this discussion is that XYRYXYR is spending too many points on Deffkoptas when he obviously needs more Boyz in his list, which has been corroborated by Bad_Sheep37, mercer, Vrakk, and Unholy_Martyr. Everyone but you who has posted on this thread agrees that he doesn't have enough boyz in this list.

/agree