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After playing with my current list for a while, I’ve decided to make a few changes to my current list to try to help it be more competitive. I've decided to make a few changes to my existing list, and I'm curious to know what Dakka thinks about this one. Any thoughts, criticisms, and questions are welcome.

HQ:
Company Command Squad [140]
Company Commander with Power Weapon
Regimental Standard, Medi-Pack, Plasma Gun x2
This is the least competitive unit in my army. I know it looks random and useless, but it’s been oddly successful before (without the plasma guns) at doing exactly what I’ve wanted it to do: Give orders, and tie up parts of the enemy’s force through assault or being a target for shooting.

Troops:
Platoon Infantry Squad
>Platoon Command Squad [105]
Flamer x4
Chimera with Hull Heavy Flamer
Essentially, I drive it around and flame stuff. That’s it. No orders unless it’s close to my Veterans.
>Infantry Squad 1 [120]
Sergeant with Power Weapon
Commissar with Power Weapon
Autocannon, Meltagun
>Infantry Squad 2 [75]
Sergeant with Power Weapon
Autocannon, Meltagun
>Infantry Squad 3 [75]
Sergeant with Power Weapon
Autocannon, Meltagun
It’s a POWER BLOB! I can play it as such, but I’m also comfortable breaking it up into its components if necessary. Whilst it’s a blob, I use it camp an objectives and provide a base of fire. It doesn’t move, it stays put (in cover, of course). It’s equipped to be multi-use; power weapons for HtH, Autocannons for harassing AV 12 and infantry, and Meltaguns for melting tanks that get to close.

Veteran Squad 1 [155]
Melta x3
Chimera

Veteran Squad 2 [155]
Melta x3
Chimera
Both Vet squads ride around in their chimeras, hunting tanks. If I’m playing against a heavy anti-mech list, I can put the Vets into my Vendettas so that they have greater maneuverability and are able to get to the enemy armor.

Fast Attack:
Vendetta [130]

Vendetta [130]
I can use both Vendettas with my Veterans if I want, but circumstances don’t usually call for that. Normally, outflank them to try to get side shots on enemy armor, but will start them on the table if the lascannons will have good shots on AV 12 or less.

Hellhound [145]
With Multi Melta
A bit of anti-horde, and the multi melta lets it be additional tank hunting support (or popping transports to get the passengers out!).

Heavy Support:
Leman Russ Executioner [230]
With Plasma Sponsons
Anti terminator? Yes please. As much as I wish as it was true, it's not. But it still does kill a a couple each turn as is still fairly hard to kill. I gave it sponsons to add the 1 more plasma shot a turn, make it not completely useless if the Executioner Plasma Cannon is destroyed, and give it more shots if I don’t move it. It doesn’t kill a whole lot of terminators, but it’s blast templates serve as at least some sort of anti horde (by no means effective) when I need it.

Leman Russ Demolisher [180]
With Hull Lascannon
Lascannon to add support to tank killing if necessary, but primarily out to blast units of tough guys and other guys that get “to close”.

Manticore Rocket Launcher [160]
Boomy death to enemy armor and mid-infantry alike. It hangs back with the blob to do it dirty work.

So the army as a whole has a rather mid/short range synergy to it that works really well. I haven’t used a manticore before, but I think it’ll complement the existing synergy with some needed range. Mostly, only the CCS, Power Blob, and manticore will stay put on home base and act as a fire base. The rest of the army (particularly the tanks) move around to capture objectives or close on the enemy to bring the brunt of the firepower to bear.

Astute readers will note the list above is only 1800 points. The reason for this is twofold. 1) I can keep my existing dozer blades on my Vet Chimeras and give one Vet squad demolitions so it’s up to 1850 points, which is what I’ll be taking to tournament here in the not terribly distant future. 2) So that I can play with some of the suggestions given to me. The plan right now is to fill those 200 points with a squad of Plasma Vets, Carapace Armor, and a Chimera [200 points].

Again, thoughts, tips, questions, and critique is welcome.

Thanks,
darkdm

So, it's not bad, but it IS all over the place. You have a bunch of different type of units doing a bunch of different types of roles. This means that you only have a unit or two doing any one role. Not only does this mean they're less likely to accomplish their mission, but it also means that it is much easier to kill the one particularly offensive part of your list, after which point your opponent can rest much easier.

What I'd do is focus more. Instead of part-armored, part-artillery, part-air cav, part mech-vet, part infantry horde, I'd boil it down to like two of those. That way you have plenty of redundancy, which means you're more likely to get the job done, and less likely to be killed off before you do it. Also, if you focus more, you will be able to implement simpler strategies. Nothing kills commanders in the field like fumbling with strategies that are too complex. Just look at the Battle of New Orleans.

Your CCS doesn't need a power weapon because you cannot charge after firing plasma guns. Five Guardsmen won't last in combat and that power weap will need 5+ mostly to wound. Give them a Chimera or if you're going then get Creed.

Infantry Squad 1 doesn't need power weaps really and why short ranged melta and long range autocannon? Ditch the melta. This applies to all squads actually.

I would ditch the Demolisher or Manticore and get two of both; not a mix. Then you've got some redundancy a little bit.

Mercer:
The CCS isn't meant to assualt, its meant to be assualted (shot at, preferably). It acts primarily as orders and a decoy. I've had tons of success with it when using it as such, and will probably keep it until the end of time.

The autocannon/meltas, and power weapons in the blob allow it to be multi use. Ok in HtH, ok at harassing AV 12, and ok at killing armor that strays to close. It's only real dedicated functions are as fire support for the rest of the army and objective camping.

To Alarios/Mercer:
Perhaps I'm confused as to how to view my army? I look at my list and see coherency and plenty of redundancy in most areas (less in the anti MEQ department). Mercer, to a point I agree with the Manticore/Demolisher, but also remember that to bump it up to 2K, I have another 200 points I can fill (easily done by adding a second Manticore or Demolisher). But when I look at my list, this is how I view it:

Anti Horde:
Power Blob
Hellhound
Flamer PCS
Manticore
Anti AV:
Melta Vets
Vendettas
Hellhound
Demolisher (more support, not dedicated)
Manticore
Anti MEQ/TEQ:
Demolisher
Executioner
Plasma Vets (if I add them)

Alarios:
Perhaps you could give an example of what you'd do instead with the themes in this list? If it matters, I'd most likely go with Mech/Armor components rather than Infantry Horde or Artillery.

Right, so the problem isn't your ability to bring weapons to handle different enemy units. Your problem is in the delivery system you've chosen for these weapons.

So, for an extreme example - Let's say that you have all your anti horde, anti AV and anti MEq weapons, but let's say that 100% of these weapons are on infantry models. This means that 100% of your opponent's anti-tank weapons are useless, and it also means that you're very likely to simply overwhelm your opponent's anti-horde capabilities. As well, you have lots of carriers that are composed the same way that are trying to complete the same task in the same way. Not only is this much easier to command in the field, but it overall makes it more likely to actually get the job done (as per the reasons earlier in this paragraph and my last post).

Right now, you have the guns, but your delivery system is just all over the place. If a single unit gets destroyed (which won't be all that tough for your opponent to do as you ARE a guard player), then you need to rely on a different unit with a different MO to handle it. Plasma CCS got wiped out? Since there isn't a Plasma SWS right next to it, you're now forced to hope that your air-cav comes in from reserve on time, or that your plasma vehicles have good LOS and don't have more immediate targets, etc.

So, don't think of it in terms of which weapons you're bringing, but HOW you're bringing them that's important here.

As for the blobs, if anything, I'd ditch the autocannons. They're really not that good against pretty much any target, and they're encouraging you to sit still, wasting power weapons and meltaguns due to range. Either get rid of the power weapons and meltaguns or get rid of the autocannons.

As for the CCS, if you insist on using it as tooled, you can, but know that it's a 140 point gaping hole in your list. You might as well bring a 1850 point army to every 2000 point game.

I'm tempted to side with alerios on this one, you do need a bit more of direction to your army, I would keep the auto cannons though, in my experiance they are quite good, but maybe put them in a squad all on their own so they can support advancing infantry alsofor your heavy spots you really should just pick a direction, either tanks or artillery. I think that you should go with more tanks, maybe another executioner. I'de drop the mantirore.

your infantry blob doesnt need the melta guns as you have enough anti tank with the 2 vendettas so you best of spending your points elsewere.

i would also ditch the hellhound and replace it with a banewolf wich would do a better job against hords and tougher stuff like marines and have it wiv a heavy flamer to add to that.

since you want your ccs to be in combat i would take iron hand straken as hes just as good at giving orders and alot better in combat and is good at soaking up damage, to make the points for him i would lose some of the meltas in ur army.

rogersss wrote:you have enough anti tank with the 2 vendettas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heresy

Alarios:
That makes WAY more sense to me now, thank you for elaborating. I don't neccesarily agree with you 100%, but you do make a good point.

DeadGuard:
I don't necccesarily agree with you on autocannons, but I'd say they have a place in my army as long as I'm running any foot sloggers. While not fantastic, they do and have functioned well in my army before, but that's a non-issue as you'll see later this post.

---------------------

If I drop the Blob, then I'll have no need for the CCS any more, so it'll be relegated to a Flamer CCS with a chimera (seeing as I will also lose my Flamer PCS). It also turns out that 4x flamer with a chimera is only 5 points more than it is currently. I don't want to mount up an infantry platoon, as that's just too many kill points for my taste. Also, if I got rid of the manticore, I'd add a LRBT with a hull lascannon, running me an additional 5 points over the manticore. Given the fact that the Blob's 270 (260 from adding the LRBT and Flamer CCS) points are gone, I'd have absolutely no problems taking Plasma Vets with carapce and a chimera. I would then split the remaining 60 points floating around on either Demolitions for both Melta Vets or dozer blades for all of my chimeras and the hellhound.

It runs down to then be 1/8th Air Cav from Vendettas (though I'd argue they're tanks, as I usually use them as dedicated gunships and not transports), 3/8ths tanks, and then half mech. I'd still fill the extra 200 points with Plasma Vets as before. Is this better?

The Manticore helps with the anti-tank, but there's just no replacement for some solid melta shots. If nothing else whatsoever, they're what I would consider more efficient anti terminator than the Executioner is, because if you get the shots, you probably are going to assault them and wipe them out with your many power weapons within a round anyway. Definitely keep the metlaguns. Besides, lascannons aren't nearly as effective against a Land Raider as melta is.

darkdm wrote:Is this better?

If you could post a new list, it would make it a little more clear what you're doing.

daedalus wrote:

rogersss wrote:you have enough anti tank with the 2 vendettas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heresy

Lol. You, sir, inspired me to make the following...

Understandable about the autocannons, I think with them it comes down just to a matter of prefreance. I do however think the changes you're making are moving in the right direction, and I like the idea of another demolisher you ran buy me at work.

Alarios:
That picture is EPIC win.

So here is my list after some changes. Now that I've had time to look at my last post, I realized I lost the 105 points of the Flamer PCS somewhere . But here it is, still 200 (actually, 205) points short of 2K for the same reason.

HQ:
Company Command Squad [125]
Flamer x4
Chimera

Troops:
Veteran Squad 1 [155]
Melta x3
Chimera

Veteran Squad 2 [155]
Melta x3
Chimera

Veteran Squad 3 [200]
Plasma Gun x3
Carapace Armor
Chimera

Fast Attack:
Vendetta [130]

Vendetta [130]

Hellhound [145]
With Multi Melta

Heavy Support:
Leman Russ Executioner [230]
With Plasma Sponsons

Leman Russ Squadron 1 [360]
Leman Russ Demolisher
>With Hull Lascannon
Leman Russ Demolisher
>WIth Hull Lascannon

Leman Russ Battle Tank [165]
With Hull Lascannon

So is this better? Quesionts, comments, concerns?

I'd drop the lone Russ for a Manticore.
and it's just me i'm sure, bus i hate to waste BS4 on flamers.

Ah, another Coloradoan. On a related note, I'm sad to see you've transferred to the all too common mechanized veteran list. *Sigh*. Well I vote it to be floccinaucinihilipilification. Check it if you like, i hardly ever get to use my favorite word. Ha! Well your list should do just fine.

alarmingrick:
*chuckles* I just switched out the manticore for the LRBT. I've never used a manticore before, but it'll probably be going with me to a tournament (and a few practice games before it with any luck), so I'll see how it does then. The latest list posted is going off Alarios' advice to consolidate the ways I deliver the pain. The original list is more like the one I have now, with only a few changes.

ImRightBehindYou:
Go Colorado! On the same note to alarmingrick, I normally don’t run mech vets, but I’m giving some advice a shot. So we’ll see if it truly is floccinaucinihilipilification! I hope you’re right though!

-------------------

On that note, I've had a lot of success in the past with one infantry platoon and a few meched up metla vets. If all mech doesn't work for me, I may switch back. It's curious to see people's thoughts going both ways on the mech thing, and all the different opinions on how to make an IG army effective. I'm of the school of thought that "if it works, it don't need no fixing", but I'm also willing to try stuff out that I haven't before. Keep 'em coming!

Not the biggest fan of 2x russes in a squadron, honestly. You'd be better off getting rid of the executioner.

Then spend the 435 points you're still looking for into a pair of 3x melta vets for the two vendettas (6 BS4 meltaguns and 6 TL BS3 lascannons will do much more to everything but tightly clustered marines in the open).

With your remaining 235 points, it's a little tough to tell what to do with them. Your FA and HS slots are full and you will have used up 5/6 of your troops choices. This pretty much leaves elites and HQ.

Adding a 4x plasma CCS in a chimera + Marbo wouldn't be terrible. If you want to go the loltastic route, 5 ogryn in a chimera are roughly affordable for this. Otherwise a couple of PBSs in chimeras or, dare I even mention them... stormies, might be appropriate.

Also, you're really probably going to want an astropath if you think you might ever keep those vendettas in reserve.

Get rid of the 2nd demolisher, the squadron rules are just too punishing. Get another unit of troops instead, 3 isn't enough at this level. Also, I would upgrade the CCS to all melta or plasma guns. You have HFs on all chimeras, a hellhound, and all 3 tanks throw templates, you should be fine for anti-horde.

@Ailaros: That picture is fantastic. Well done! (pun intended)

On the topic: I also, am saddened by the transition to Mech Guard. It works, don't get me wrong, but it kind of lacks panache. That and everyone who's played against IG in more than two games is expecting that. Squads charging up TRYING to get into melee is something that they might not see coming. I agree you need at least 4 troops at 2000 points. Flamers on BS4 is a terrible waste. Two demolishers in a squadron may be overkill for one target. I could see justifications for 2 vanilla LRBTs, but not these. The multimelta on the Hellhound is causing me a lot of internal struggle. I've always wanted to give that a shot, but the BS3 has always scared me off from it. Let me know how that works out for you.

darkdm wrote:Mercer:
The CCS isn't meant to assualt, its meant to be assualted (shot at, preferably). It acts primarily as orders and a decoy. I've had tons of success with it when using it as such, and will probably keep it until the end of time.

The autocannon/meltas, and power weapons in the blob allow it to be multi use. Ok in HtH, ok at harassing AV 12, and ok at killing armor that strays to close. It's only real dedicated functions are as fire support for the rest of the army and objective camping.

To Alarios/Mercer:
Perhaps I'm confused as to how to view my army? I look at my list and see coherency and plenty of redundancy in most areas (less in the anti MEQ department). Mercer, to a point I agree with the Manticore/Demolisher, but also remember that to bump it up to 2K, I have another 200 points I can fill (easily done by adding a second Manticore or Demolisher). But when I look at my list, this is how I view it:

Anti Horde:
Power Blob
Hellhound
Flamer PCS
Manticore
Anti AV:
Melta Vets
Vendettas
Hellhound
Demolisher (more support, not dedicated)
Manticore
Anti MEQ/TEQ:
Demolisher
Executioner
Plasma Vets (if I add them)

Alarios:
Perhaps you could give an example of what you'd do instead with the themes in this list? If it matters, I'd most likely go with Mech/Armor components rather than Infantry Horde or Artillery.

Dude 5 men in cover won't last long - why would I assault them when I can gun them down? And if I do assault them I'll probably go first as I more than likely will have frags and a higher initiative and your CCS wiped out before the power weap can do any damage because I've killed the entire squad with combined fire power and assault.

Exactly what armour is going to drive into your melta range besides Battlewagons with dethrollas? The answer is none. If the real purpose as you say is camping and fire support drop the melta like I said and keep the autocannon...

Unfortunately you are viewing it incorrectly. You're keeping a CCS in cover and have a power weap hopeing someone is going to assault you, but you will strike last and small squad size. You seem to think the short ranged melta and autocannon are good in case a tank comes close, which won't happen and you admit that squad is for camping and fire support, which won't be in melta range anyway! While you're correct about redundancy in one sense it's multiple threat and target saturation you don't have, take out that single Manticore flamer and Hellhound how you going to threaten stuff? But if you take multiple units you can put out greater damage and if one is destroyed never mind, you've got another. All your units are like this. You only have one melta so tough armour 14 doesn't have much to worry about after that. You simply don't have enough tools for the jobs, just little bits of them. You should take double Hellhounds, double Manticores and more melta and then you'll ve sorted better with redundancy, multiple threat and target saturation - atm it's too easy to prioritise this list and pick it apart in a game and then the threats are ended. Sort those out and the mixed up wargear and you'll be fine. Btw if you are going power weaps put them in mass Platoons




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Second list is better btw. Ditch Russ squads though.

The only thing i have to say with this one is on objective based games you're going to have to be careful, personally I like having more troop choices and this list is kind of lacking in scoring units.

I would diversify the vet squad load outs. I have been running my squads with 2 flamer 1 melta load out ((when I finish the new models I will change that to 2 melta 1 flamer)).

I run mechanized as well; drive in and shoot from the hatch. On your command squad, I would change out 2 flamers for 2 melta. Melta serve heavy damage against even the toughest infantry, but also give that command squad a double tap into heavy armor. I had a game recently where Pask in a Vanq could not crack the armor on a Land Raider, he shot at it 5 times before dying horribly; and he was not the only thing shooting at the LR. Truly the dice gods favoured this LR until my command squad drove up to it in a chimera, and exploded the LR with melta fire.

I have completely stopped using or even modeling plasma guardsmen, as plasma weapons just kill you and often don't get a kill in the game.

If you are going to mix weapons ((ie. 1 flamer/2 melta or 2 flamer/1melta)) just make sure you keep them all the same. This gives you the tactical knowledge that all your units have the same capability, meaning you never have to go "gak I wish that flamer was over here...." or melta etc.


Another thing to look at is that for 5 points less you could take a squadron of 3 Hydra's instead of the Executioner. Now I enjoy the Executioner, and have several times shown why I can get many more hits with it, than a single battle cannon blast; but scatter is a pain in the royal rump. With 3 Hydra's you have 12 shots rerolling misses, AND 9 additional shots from the Hull Heavy Bolters. That's 21 shots with out accounting for re-rolls.

mercer wrote:You seem to think the short ranged melta and autocannon are good in case a tank comes close, which won't happen.

This isn't completely true.

Objectives games are games of position. If you position meltaguns on an objective, and your opponent wants you off the objective, then they have to get close to the meltagun (or try to blow a blob with "incoming!" off which is never going to happen).

DeadGuard:
Yes, I agree.

daedalus:
I've been using the hellhound with the multi melta for quite some time now. I can tell you that from experience, yes, BS 3 on it hurts. The downsides are it'll only hit about half the time and I'm sacrificing more flamer hits provided I move 6 inches or less.

On the other hand, it has several advantages. Firstly, it's usually short on mushy targets for it's inferno cannon (and so the heavy flamer moreso if it had one) because of the high mech enviroment. So I can use it to pop armor and get the guys out for it to shoot at. Because it's fast, I can usuaully get off shots on side or rear armor, which helps. Also, if you move it more than 6 inches (like I normally do), you wouldn't get to use the heavy flamer anyways. So my point being is it adds a splash of anti tank to it, which it uses often because of the way I play it. If you play a hellhound so that it moves only 6 inches and you play against a lot of mushy armies, I wouldn't recommend it.

Mercer:
As for as the CCS in the original list goes, I've used them consistantly and they've been much harder to kill than given credit for. Also, Dreanaughts, transports, Land Raiders, the DE one (the name is escaping me at the moment), and most dedicated transports have come to attack my guard, they always have a wealth of armor to shoot at close range.

Dracheous:
I've tried diversifying the load out on my Vets before. It's ended in terrible failure. Plasma guardsmen may die a lot, but carapace armor (or a mdei-pack) gives them a much higher survival rate (which is why my Plasma Vets have carapace). And The executioner was there for anti Heavy Infantry, and so replacing it with 3 Hydras is just a little silly (yes, they get a lot of shots if they don't move, but 6 TL autocannon shots don't do much vs. termies, I've tried).

Alarios:
And considering two thirds of the standard missons are objective based

-----------------------------------------------------------

Ok, everyone that's posted since my last list unviersally hates squaded Russes. I think I understand why too. And MOST everybody that's posted since my last list has commented on the stale, expired (but effective) chrunchiness that is Mech Guard. It's also been expressed to me that I don't have enough troops (something I readily agree with). So I'm going to throw up two lists; one that keeps the mech guard theme and one that gives something else a shot. Both of these will be filled out to 2K enitrely, so no more extra 200 point silliness. I'm at work and don't have my codex in front of me right now, so if the points are off it's because of the meltabombs.

HQ:
Company Command Squad [165]
Plasma x4
Chimera with Hull Heavy Flamer

Elites:
Ogryns [185]
Chimera with Hull Heavy Flamer

Troops:
Veteran Squad 1 [155]
Melta x3
Chimera with Hull Heavy Flamer

Veteran Squad 2 [155]
Melta x3
Chimera with Hull Heavy Flamer

Veteran Squad 3 [200]
Plasma Gun x3
Carapace Armor
Chimera with Hull Heavy Flamer

Veteran Squad 4 [105]
Sergeant with Melta Bombs
Melta x3

Veteran Squad 5 [105]
Sergeant with Melta Bombs
Melta x3

Fast Attack:
Vendetta [130]

Vendetta [130]

Hellhound [145]
With Hull Multi Melta

Heavy Support:
Leman Russ Demolisher [180]
With Hull Lascannon

Leman Russ Demolisher [180]
With Hull Lascannon

Leman Russ Battle Tank [165]
With Hull Lascannon

Total: 2000 points

And for the non mech guard one. This one utilitizes infantry horde, rather than mech.

HQ:
CCS [80]
Regimental Standard, Flamer x3

Troops:
Infantry Platoon 1
>Platoon Command Squad 1 [50]
Flamer x4
>Infantry Squad 1-1 [120]
Sergeant with Power Weapon and Melta Bombs
Meltagun
Commissar with Power Weapon
>Infantry Squad 1-2 [75]
Sergeant with Power Weapon and Melta Bombs
Meltagun
>Infantry Squad 1-3 [75]
Sergeant with Power Weapon and Melta Bombs
Meltagun
>Heavy Weapon Squad 1 [75]
Autocannon x3

Infantry Platoon 2
>Platoon Command Squad 2 [50]
Flamer x4
>Infantry Squad 2-1 [120]
Sergeant with Power Weapon and Melta Bombs
Meltagun
Commissar with Power Weapon
>Infantry Squad 2-2 [75]
Sergeant with Power Weapon and Melta Bombs
Meltagun
>Infantry Squad 2-3 [75]
Sergeant with Power Weapon and Melta Bombs
Meltagun
>Heavy Weapon Squad 2 [75]

Infantry Platoon 3
>Platoon Command Squad [70]
Melta x4
>Infantry Squad 3-1 [65]
Autocannon, Grenade Launcher
>Infantry Squad 3-2 [65]
Autocannon, Grenade Launcher

Fast Attack:
Vendetta [130]

Vendetta [130]

Hellhound [145]
With Multi Melta

Heavy Support:
Leman Russ Demolisher [180]
with Hull Lascannon

Leman Russ Demolisher [180]
with Hull Lascannon

Leman Russ Battle Tank [165]
With Hull Lascannon

Total: 2000 points

A few of my notes real quick though:
On list 1, both Melta Vets not in a chimera get to ride in the Vdendettas.Those vets have sergeants with meltabombs because they'll be closer to the armor than the rest of my melta vets (and I needed to spend another 10 points).

ON list 2, the third infantry platoon is filler. It sits back with the HWSs form the other platoons and adds fire support. The PCS from platoon 3 rides in a Vendetta, and acts as a dedicated anti tanks squad.

Thoughts on both lists? Thoughts on only one? Which is better?

Edit: I've been working on this post off and on for a few hours (inbetween busy spouts), so I've been looking at the lists for a while now. I'm thinking I like the second list more after looking at them both.

Either one could work just fine. The only glaring problem I see is an infantry platoon without a commissar in list 2.

The rest is minor (like the multimelta on the hellhound), and shouldn't give you too much bother.

Let us know how this plays out.

Ailaros wrote:Either one could work just fine. The only glaring problem I see is an infantry platoon without a commissar in list 2.

I see your point. What if I were to instead switch it out for 42 conscripts (I'd be out only 2 points). That's an idea I've been toying with for a while and wonder if anyone has had any experience with them? I'm under the impression they'll suffer the same fate as the small blob without a commissar though due to leadership. What would you suggest I do about platoon 3?

Drop a heavy weapons team and use the points to throw a commissar in. With the remaining ~30 points, you can buy an officer of the fleet or more guns or something.

Conscripts work in exactly two settings:

- with a lord commissar. Be warned that the LC is an independent character, so you have to be careful. As well, the LC makes the conscripts more expensive than their points in regular guardsmen.

- with "send in the next wave!" for being able to perpetually capture/contest an objective within 6" of your table edge.

darkdm wrote:

Mercer:
As for as the CCS in the original list goes, I've used them consistantly and they've been much harder to kill than given credit for. Also, Dreanaughts, transports, Land Raiders, the DE one (the name is escaping me at the moment), and most dedicated transports have come to attack my guard, they always have a wealth of armor to shoot at close range.

Then all those things going for them won't worry about plasma in the original config. You need 5+ to glance a Dreadnought and it will maul the CCS and the power weap does nothing. Land Raiders won't fear CCS with plasma either, so they might have stuff to shoot but they do nohing in those examples you said and whatever is inside, if anything is inside, will get them next turn.

However, it shows you're listening to me or possibly others and I see in your new lists they are now mounted in Chimeras which is a lot better. As for lists then list 1 is better. Though ditch the lascannons on the tanks, you don't did them. List 2 is really bad because short ranged weapons on foot. List just needs lascannons dropping saving 75 points and Ogyrns ditching too - only useful elite in Guard is Psyker Battle Squads, perhaps Storm Troopers but they are damn expensive.

Alarios:
I'll look into it, thanks for the suggestion. If I don't just follow your advice there, I'm thinking I may scrap platoon 3 altogether, and just add another squad to each of the power blobs. I've been a big fan of the 30 man blobs, and while 40 man squads are akward on the table, I'm curious to see if their effectivness is able to offset the maneuverability issues.

And yeah, that's what I was afraid of with conscripts. I've used a Lord Commissar with Ogryns before, and think I could use it effectivly with conscripts, but the second list doesn't really have room for both a large conscript squad and a LC. So that's not going to happen...

mercer:
I was pointing out that the armor got close to my guard, not my CCS. That's why the blob squad had meltas. Sorry I wasn't more clear on that.

I'm curious as to why I should ditch the lsacannons on the tanks? It'd give me 45 points more in my army, which isn't enough for anything except for just turning the 3rd platoon in the 2nd list in another power blob. For list one, I wouldn't be able to do much with the points.

But Ogryns are so much fun!
I really do love running them, they're a blast to play. But I had not even though of the Psycher Battle Squad, and you bring up a good point. That swap would be quick and plainless (a wash on points if I remember correctly). My only issue is that I've run Ogryns before and am REALLY skeptical about the effectivness of a PBS. And I hate storm troopers, they've never done me any good.

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That being said, I'll get some modified lists up later when I get a chance. But does anybody have any experience with a PBS? If so, how well does it perform?

Ah. Cool about Guard. Yeah keep meltas on Guard blobs.

Lascannons hit 50/50 and the large blast is going for light armour or troops. For how much it costs and how often it hits it's a waste really.

Ogyrns fun? lol. They don't do anything lol.