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So as some of you might remember, I'm trying to get my whole gaming group to start playing Warmachine. (As of right now I'm somewhat limited in what models I can use, since I only have Cryx and only about 50 points of models to choose from...) Anyway, what I'm looking for is advice from you Pressgangers, and/or anyone else with experience in *insert thread name*. How do you start? What's the general 'outline' for teaching someone? What do you explain to the person before actually starting the game? What do you teach them as they go? I've played games with a couple people IRL who've never played before with some success, but I can't help but feel I could have done it better. I think my biggest worry is saying too much before the game actually starts, which runs the risk of boring them. But I don't want to tell them too little so that they have no idea what's going on, either...

I'm currently building a scene locally where none existed in 2009. We're around 20 players now of which a dozen, perhaps, are very active.

I first recruited a few friends; one was a computer game designer (scripter) and immediately fell for PP's design style, the other a natural science teacher with a liking for mathemathics. He liked the probabilities.

Once I had those two I started angling on local forums to attract attention.

When I do demos, I tend to focus on the angle I myself enjoy - I feel it helps convey enthusiasm. I enjoy the fast-paced, aggressive style of play and the fact that even in a demo, you can't just bumble about. Make a plan! Stick to it! Go for the jugular! I describe the factions very briefly: "These are the fantasy americans with a penchant for electrical attacks and high-performance steamjacks. These are the fantasy russians; they're hard as nails and pack a punch. These are Al-Quaida fused with the Vatican. They like to buff their own things and set fire to their enemies. These are steampunk necromancers! They go for sneaky tricks and speed.

I teach them the basic QSR pack rules, quite rapidly, and get them into playing as soon as possible. I try to prevent them suffering from Analysis Paralysis: this is a demo game, try something wild if you think it'll work!

Usually someone will be interested and we give a brief description of usually just the 4 warmachine factions, and the game itself.
(Almost like Congoboy has said but need to be careful with menoth :( not many but some people can take offense to how you describe them).

Maybe mention a little about hordes, also say they can play each other! some people like hordes but not warmachine

If they are still interested, then you go for the demo game! Get out some cards and models and just breifly explain what the parts on the card mean and how warcasters work.
The rules are quite complex and take a while to pick up, so they just need to know enough to charge and such.

We use terrain but ignores its rules. just makes the board look nicer and start not too far away from each other for action in turn 2.

If you go first and explain what your doing as you go along they should remember a bit of it for their turn.
Like give 1 focus to a jack and say because of this he gets to move at double SPD but that uses up his Movement and Action points.
Then like cast a spell.

Easiest way to learn is just go with it. Usually depends on the learning capabilities of the player.
Sometimes making the rules up as you go along. (we had a slayer under the effect of a spell which only works on Warrior models back in mk1 i think, The one where after the model is destroy it comes back to life for 1 turn something like that!)

Leaving your jacks out so they can get trashed is also fun for everyone

Best bet though is play with 2 battlebox's which aren't cryx. Cryx are quite tricky for a demo game because of having to explain arc nodes etc and requires a tad more skill to play with.
Don't have to use battlebox's its just made more sense to use them.
Especially if you've had one since Black and white Prime lol.
Might be worth investing in another! start a new faction

Generally, I teach my friends how combat works between 2 models after learning movement and allocation. Then I ask 'em what kind of play-style they like, and then I suggest a faction, or they'll choose one. We get up the battlegroups and let it roll.

Thanks to everyone who has posted so far, and please keep the advice coming... I'm taking it all in, even if I don't respond after every post or 3.

Well, I kind of started WM in my area back in the old days, what I did was, I bought one battle box and an extra caster then I divided the jacks from the box between the 2 casters and used that for the demo games.

We had a fairly active group of maybe 15-20 players and monthly tournaments going when I was "forced" to stop. Fast forward a few years up to now and the community has completely died down save for a few guys who play in each others houses.

What I'm trying to do is get things back up on their feet, but since I don't have nearly as much time as I had back then, I'm trying to use the local forums to post battle reports of the few games that I manage to do, post the minis that I'm painting currently and try to get people interested again in the game through that... Only started doing it a couple of weeks ago, so no idea of how much success I'm going to get.

In general there are a few things about the battleboxes new players have a hard time getting their heads around, so excluding or severely truncating them is usually a good idea:

1. Power attacks with jacks- Since they're only found in the core rulebook and most have a more than a paragraph dedicated to them, an average new player won't know how to use any of them or at least do it in a meaningful fashion.

2. pSorchas threat range- Trying to explain exactly how dangerous it is to get within 17" of Sorscha and why is just a losing proposition to someone who doesn't fully understand the game.

3. Kaelyssa's Witch Hound- In general the Ret "battlebox" is about even with everyone else, but why they put a Witch Hound caster in this format I'll never know. Helpful reminders can work with other casters, but against Dennny who's entire spell list is offensive, it's probably better to just "forget" she has it the first time around and explain it after the game.

Seon wrote:Usually someone will be interested and we give a brief description of usually just the 4 warmachine factions, and the game itself.
(Almost like Congoboy has said but need to be careful with menoth :( not many but some people can take offense to how you describe them).

Oh, boo hoo

It is typically stated in a fairly light tone. People tend to take it as that. I also, of course, assess my audience first.

Kaptajn Congoboy wrote:
Oh, boo hoo

It is typically stated in a fairly light tone. People tend to take it as that. I also, of course, assess my audience first.

Yeaah, we've had no problems with it, its just always nice to assess your audience as you say

Few people have kicked a fuss on the PP forums over the years but if your into wargaming you generally wouldn't care that the Protectorate of Menoth are a bunch of Religious fanatics who like to firebomb people and crucify them because they think thats the way their god wants it lol.

As a PoM player, i quite enjoy it. makes the game more brutally satisfying when all of your opponents models are on fire

I ran a couple of intro games yesterday.

I had four Starter sets that players could choose from, Cryx, Rhulic, Magnus and Khador.

I pitted two new players against each other, I let them make tactical decisions I just advised them on how to make attacks (boost damage rolls not attack rolls against Khador warjacks etc.)

I completely left out power attacks and feats.

I mock my friends choice of game.

Strange that so few of them have come over to play.

I don't think leaving Feats out of the teaching are a good idea, since they're such an important part of the game... Careful choice of caster makes explaining feats a whole lot easier. "Asphyxious gets all his focus back" or "Deneghra debuffs anything within 14 inches of her" are particularly difficult concepts to grasp. Power Attacks I can understand leaving out though, I still don't even know exactly what they all are/how they all work by heart...

I run my demos as follows:

Cygnar vs Protectorate or Skorne vs Circle. That way to get 2 lights & a heavy on each side.

Start the game close together (even a 2'x2' table is probably too big) , and take the first turn. YOU should go first, and explain things on the card as you do them. Deal some damage and set yourself up to get pounded by your opponent (I use my feat on turn 1 as well). Help your opponent handle their first turn and pound one of your lights into dust. Do one more round and, if they are into it, restart the demo and play it full out.

That makes sense, I think I'll try that approach next time. (both armies will be Cryx of course, since that's all I have right now...)

When I learnt to play which wasn't too long ago, I'd had no idea about rules before hand, the only thing I could compare it to was warhammer. Anyways I saw a Menoth Battlegroup in my FLGS and I liked the look of them so I bought it. I walked round the corner to start building and saw a veteran player building his new battlebox, it was coincidence completely but he decided to teach me how to play. So I picked up from a simple game, with my own models and cards, which I could then begin to study afterwards. Tbh I didn't find the rules too hard to pick up. Could just be me though. :/

The basics are pretty easy as you go model by model until all models are used. It is more difficult if turnsequence and consequenses of actions are considered. Namely if you move caster last then make sure he is well protected, but if used first that he is not so far ahead that his jacks can't keep up.

However it is the best way to learn. I tried to learn someone the game once and failed. I used a unit and a solo extra and the game got a bit too complicated. I had to explain a lot of the rules and felt more like I was playing myself, as I had to break down a lot of useable tactics. Next tuime I will do a simple battleboxgame and see if that helps do it right...

Cygnar and Menoth are what PP uses for thier convention demos.

They are pretty similar. Both have a heavy with a weapon and open fist. A melee/range light and a sword/shield light arc node.

They work on the idea of a 10 minute demo. You go first and show movement and explain the stats. You have them do some focus allocation and advance. The you go in with your caster to do some damage and show how powerful they can be but position him so they can kill him in the next turn to show the vulnerability.

DarkTemplars wrote:Cygnar and Menoth are what PP uses for thier convention demos.

They are pretty similar. Both have a heavy with a weapon and open fist. A melee/range light and a sword/shield light arc node.

They work on the idea of a 10 minute demo. You go first and show movement and explain the stats. You have them do some focus allocation and advance. The you go in with your caster to do some damage and show how powerful they can be but position him so they can kill him in the next turn to show the vulnerability.

That makes sense, I can see how that would be effective. Can't really try anything out until Friday though...

DarkTemplars wrote:Cygnar and Menoth are what PP uses for thier convention demos.

They are pretty similar. Both have a heavy with a weapon and open fist. A melee/range light and a sword/shield light arc node.

They work on the idea of a 10 minute demo. You go first and show movement and explain the stats. You have them do some focus allocation and advance. The you go in with your caster to do some damage and show how powerful they can be but position him so they can kill him in the next turn to show the vulnerability.

Importantly, they also lack some of the overpowered (for a starter box) elements that the Cryx and Khador boxes contain (3 Arc Nodes and Sorcha, respectively).

I would hardly call that overpowered, considering that 2 of the 3 only function as arcnodes and are otherwise basically useless. The cryx starter does have a 3 point advantage, though.
Hey you know what, if they took out the deler and replaced the Slayer with a Seether, the points would be even... (and we'd have a Seether! )

MasterDRD wrote:I would hardly call that overpowered, considering that 2 of the 3 only function as arcnodes and are otherwise basically useless. The cryx starter does have a 3 point advantage, though.
Hey you know what, if they took out the deler and replaced the Slayer with a Seether, the points would be even... (and we'd have a Seether! )

Trust me. In a situation where you have all of 3 jacks to run interference, 3 arcnodes are certainly very much overpowered. And I wouldn't underestimate the amount of damage a Deathripper can put out, either. Nasty little fethers. May not kill a heavy jack, but pretty much everything else is fair game.

Would you rather fight only 2 arc nodes but a Seether instead of a Slayer?

I do not even want a battlebox for cryx if it contains the current seether. I really loathe the design they picked...

I will probably buy the new battlebox at some point and convert the slayer with spikes and chains to get a custom seether. It will probably look good and different from my current Metal slayer, but will not be legal in official tournament unless TO allows. Since I do not play in tournaments that will be no problem...

I just taught my friend how to play over the weekend. I have 100 pts of Cygnar. I let him pick between Striker and Siege since their feats are easy. I then gave us both approx 15 pts of jacks (2 lights and a heavy each), and we played through an informal game and as things came up I explained them. Just jacks and casters makes the game very easy to explain. As other people have said above I left out power attacks as they are very complicated for a starting player.

Explain the phases, explain rolling for attack and damage, explain focus manipulation (boosting, run, charge, spell casting) and you are pretty much almost done. It was the first time I taught anyone else to play warmachine and I thought it was actually easier than 40k to teach.

I've been looking into Warmachine... me and the other half have gotten into 40K, and are slowly learning to play the game... I like that Warmachine could be played in spaces that we have, like a dining table.... and could be played with 3-5 models a side, or up to a large game with 10s of models a side... managing focus and caster and such, it's a different animal than 40K, and It seems to be a fast and fun game from what I've watched and read online... I'm looking into getting a Battlebox and the MK II rulebook soon, I have my Space Marines just about painted, and the other half has Orks, she'll be painting a while... LOL Which battle box would be the most evenly matched with Cygnar?

the battle boxes are all designed to balance against each other fairly decently, so i'd say just go with the one for the the army you like the best

Hey, my thread is back from the chilly grave!

But yeah I've played a few more demo games and while I may not be as good at it as a pressganger, I've done a good enough job that some of my 'students' have won the demo without any 'let them win' bs from me...
I'm pretty sure it's not because I'm a terrible player though, since I've won my fair share of serious games.

Still open to input and advice though, the hard core of 40k loyalists haven't cracked yet. But they will... Oh yes, they will... *creepy handwash*

I've kind of catalyzed the local group around here, and when I start someone new, I follow a few steps, once they express interest.
1. Try to draw an analog to a game they have played before. I seem to have a better time explaining it to MTG players, because they already understand the synergy and are used to looking at different cards, while combining effects in their mind.
2. Let them peruse my rulebook, and look at all the different factions and models.
3. Once they decide which faction they want to try out, I give them a basic overview of how the faction "feels" to play with and against. Once they choose, I try to either come up with a force with the models they want, or the closest analog to it. The first games are always 15pt mangled metal.
4. Play the game! I find that it is easiest to show a concept, rather than try to explain it. I take them, step by step, through the first turn. (I always lose the first game. I want them to know what it feels like to put together a solid synergistic strategy, and see it succeed.)
5. Play the next game! I back off with the direct instruction, and let them feel their way through the game on their own. I only give them info when asked.
6. Play the 3rd game! This is where I take off one glove, and show them a little of the Menite "Pain Onion"
7. After the 3rd game, All bets are off, and we start keeping score.

I know exactly what you mean about the MtG parallels; a Magic player will also be used to managing a resource that regenerates every turn (focus=mana), the concept of a Maintenance Phase, buffs and debuffs to stats, etc.
Unfortunately for me, I only have my Cryx to choose from. I tend to do Asphyxious/Slayer/2 Bonechickens vs Deneghra/Slayer/2 Bonechickens and start closer together, and I take the first turn to show them how movement works. I'm still working on shaving down the pregame details but I find that there are just some things a person needs to know before the game starts... I wonder if there's some sort of template for like Press Gangers or something that tells you exactly how to teach someone the game in the easiest way possible..?

I really just want to learn how to play this game. I don't have anyone in the near area to teach me and one other friend who is interested.