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Pretty much what is in the title. Now, this pure speculation. There is nothing in the works, that I know of, for GW to do such, so please do not start rumours based off of this question. This is just something that I wonder about everytime GW has one of their arbitrary price hikes. I want to know what Dakka thinks about this subject.

First, Do you think GW will start charging for game table use?

Second, If you think that they are going to do such then, "How long before such occurs?".

Third, If GW starts charging for table use, "How much do you think they will charge?".

Fourth, Do you think it would be a good idea?

Fifth, Would it have an effect upon your patronage?


Discuss

I sincerely doubt it, humoristic pessimism of some members aside.

hell if they started charging for tables (which I severly doubt) I would not play warhammer there....and probably stop playing in general

its less of a actual cost factor but more of an insult that they would charge us for the tables

I know GW is money hungry , but i can tell you they'll never charge for table use.

The GW bunker where players game at is a very important place to advertise , create game groups , make hobby friends.

Its bad enough that lack of discount already turn some customers away ( they use online discount retailers )
charging table will make going to GW bunker even more redundant.

OK, I'll play the devils advocate.

What is the difference between bowling alleys charging for shoe rentals and lane use?

Also, Pool halls charge for table use. It isn't that far of a stretch to imagine GW would look to recoup some of the cost that the the tables incur for the space they take up.

Remember, GW is now a publically traded multi-national corp and has been implementing policies as such for a fair bit now. It is not a huge stretch to see GW making the exact same move that any other multi-national corp would. From a business stand point it would make sense to do such, though it would need a good promotion to make it work.

They could promote it as a cost saving measure by have it correspond with a temopary price freeze or drop. That would help make it palatable to the customers.


Edited for dropped sentence

focusedfire wrote:OK, I'll play the devils advocate.

What is the difference between bowling alleys charging for shoe rentals and lane use?

Also, Pool halls charge for table use. It isn't that far of a stretch to imagine GW would look to recoup some of the cost that the the tables incur for the space they take up.

Remember, GW is now a publically traded multi-national corp and has been implementing policies as such for a fair bit now. It is not a huge stretch to see GW making the exact same move that any other multi-national corp would. From a business stand point it would make sense to do such, though it would need a good promotion to make it work.

They could promote it as a cost saving measure by have it correspond with a temopary price freeze or drop. That would help make it palatable to the customers.


Edited for dropped sentence

The main difference between bowling, and 40k is the level of purchasing...

in bowling, say you sign up for a league. Now, in this league you can pay your league dues every week, plus shoes and use a house ball, which quickly adds up. Now, if you throw down say, 80 dollars (american) you can buy your own permanent pair of shoes, and another 270-320 or so will get you a very special, highly designed and "better" bowling ball.

If lanes stopped charging for shoes and lane usage, then they could not stay open for very long, and it would be quite difficult to build your own bowling alley as compared to a gaming table (there is a huge amount of science behind a bowling alley, and a bowling ball)

whereas, conversely, with wargaming, you can average out all of your costs, and pay a sort of trickling amount into the hobby as needed to keep yourself afloat... the gaming center merely provides a face to face means of doing this, while also providing space to game with your fellows who enjoy this same hobby (and even the same game as the case may be between the LGW and LGS)

and a huge difference between pool halls and the LGW is along the same lines as the bowling alley... a pool table is often times much too large an expense for someone who enjoys playing the game.

focusedfire wrote:OK, I'll play the devils advocate.

What is the difference between bowling alleys charging for shoe rentals and lane use?

Also, Pool halls charge for table use. It isn't that far of a stretch to imagine GW would look to recoup some of the cost that the the tables incur for the space they take up.

Well, the pool halls aren't making you pay a few hundred dollars for your own set of balls.

I don't think (or at least, I hope) GW is quite so daft. It also doesn't fit their sales model. If parents are going to have to pay to drop their kids at GW for the day, they'd probably find something else for them to do that doesn't also involve a big initial investment.

Ensis Ferrae wrote:
The main difference between bowling, and 40k is the level of purchasing...

in bowling, say you sign up for a league. Now, in this league you can pay your league dues every week, plus shoes and use a house ball, which quickly adds up. Now, if you throw down say, 80 dollars (american) you can buy your own permanent pair of shoes, and another 270-320 or so will get you a very special, highly designed and "better" bowling ball.

A)Nothing stopping GW for charging for league sign-ups, especially id it guarantees you a table to game on.

B)You initial investment figures for Bowling pretty much correspond with initial investments for a basic competitive army. I can build a comp list from 400$ of models and paint.

Ensis Ferrae wrote:
whereas, conversely, with wargaming, you can average out all of your costs, and pay a sort of trickling amount into the hobby as needed to keep yourself afloat... the gaming center merely provides a face to face means of doing this, while also providing space to game with your fellows who enjoy this same hobby (and even the same game as the case may be between the LGW and LGS)

and a huge difference between pool halls and the LGW is along the same lines as the bowling alley... a pool table is often times much too large an expense for someone who enjoys playing the game.

1)Same trickling method can be applied to bowling. Also to tennis, golf and any number of other hobbies/activities that have charges for playing space.

2)I disagree with the cost analysis on the pool table. Many people don't have them for the same reason they don't have their own game table. Space. They just don't have space to play on and store their own table.

hungryp wrote:
I don't think (or at least, I hope) GW is quite so daft. It also doesn't fit their sales model. If parents are going to have to pay to drop their kids at GW for the day, they'd probably find something else for them to do that doesn't also involve a big initial investment.

Not much different than getting the kid into tennis, golf or fencing. All of which often have fees for use of the playing space.

No, if anything because the vast majority will stop going to their stores to play. Having players basically show off produce is pretty much free advertising for them. To charge for table use would be a massively stupid move by corporate so I doubt they are really that blind.

I think the better question may be when do you think they will remove the tables?? I spoke to a manager who speculates that the slower volume stores need to be less of a gaming club and more of a retail store. Ever heard of "BOX HAMMER"?? If you are close to a GW store manager ask!! The tide is turning to "here buy this and leave", and less hanging out to play. Just my 2 cents though.

The difference is that the bowling halls etc are primarily about hiring the space for playing the game.

The primary business of GW is manufacture and retail.

You are generally not going to your local friendly Slazenger or Dunlop store to play tennis. You are going to a club or sports venue and renting space for the privilage of playing.

Think of it this way, would GW increase sales by getting rid of the tables and having the space occupied by more display units for their products?

Also how much would they be able to charge?
I cannot see the fees being worth their while.

How would they allocate time? Would they limit games to 1000 points for example.

Would they get enough games played through the day to make it worthwhile?

Of course it is possible given that GW would like to squeeze that last buck out of the customer, but imho it doesn't seem too likely. Then again the MD probably can't sleep at day in his crypt thinking about someone walking out of a store with that last, precious drop of cash still a jangling in the pocket

The Gamer's Vault in Montreal charges for table use and it's an awesome store. The members get discounts at certain local shops (helps both cross-promotion and reduce game-store funk) and preference for tables/terrain (as I understand it; check the website for the facts).

I actually wouldnt mind it. If i got something out of it in return. If the tables were amazing. There were alot less kids and TFG running around Id prolly be up for it. But we all know that wouldnt be the case.

I don't think it will happen because the tables and basic paints available are the point of it being a hobby centre as well as a retailer.

I like that the Sydney battle bunker, which I've just moved in around the corner from, has a back room with more tables which require 'membership' to use. This is free, and requires only that you be 15+, have at least a 1000 point painted army (for membership, doesn't have to be used), use GW models, have good personal knowledge of and own copies of the rules. Some battle bunkers have actually charged for this membership over the years, but not here and now.

The answer to this is very simple whether specualtion or not.

What tables?!!?!?! Have you seen the size of the "up and coming" GW store?!? They are so small and open for such odd hours the chance of getting a game is slim to none.

While they definitely won't charge directly, I wouldn't be too surprised if they required the purchase of 1 item, or some kind of minimum amount spent on product (like, $25 or something) to grant table access.

Even then, I doubt they'll charge at all. That's how they get the players in, and that's how they keep them in, really.

Fishboy wrote:The answer to this is very simple whether specualtion or not.

What tables?!!?!?! Have you seen the size of the "up and coming" GW store?!? They are so small and open for such odd hours the chance of getting a game is slim to none.

exactly my point!! Turn-style retail, come in and buy ( make sure you get a white dwarf ) and leave. They don't care about a place to play. People who come to play only are most DEFINITELY NOT the priority.

When GW started their "Battlebunker" in Sydney*, there WAS a charge for "membership". About 60 people each paid their "fee" of $10 (for which they got a numbered membership card) and use of the tables and terrain - provided they met the criteria for 'joining' (had rulebooks, codices, templates & dice as well as minis).

So in a sense, they HAVE already done so in one location at least.

*A year later, they dropped this scheme and made membership free. They were not required to give refunds to those who had already paid. The staff, however, in order to smooth over any hard feelings offered those who paid their choice of an "A" blister or product as a replacement.

I didn't get involved in the bunker back then because I was about to move away... I thought I remembered them charging, which was just after the GW had just moved out of the Hilton and opened the bunker.

I just wasn't sure, though, thanks chrome.

I've got no problem paying to use somebody's tables. I don't buy new, let alone at full retail, so if the FLGS needs $5 from me to stay open, I'll gladly pay it.

The bunker was one of 4 venues I played at back then.
(mid-late 90s).

I remember when they opened the store in the Hilton arcade (capitol centre), and when they moved (they had sales on both occasions) to where they are now.

Didn't they once have a Pitt St. shopfront at the Hilton as well? Before moving to the George St. side? For some reason I remember that, but that would have been the first time I ever walked into a GW, well before I started playing.

Capital Centre arcade (what it was actually called - the Hilton hotel just happened to sit on top of it) was a square spiral. You could get to it from either side of the block - but it was downstairs from Pitt and ground level walk-in off George.

I only recall that store being their first. Before that, we had a "mind games" in Sydney (now only outside of NSW).

Cryonicleech wrote:Even then, I doubt they'll charge at all. That's how they get the players in, and that's how they keep them in, really.

Exactly, the tables are a loss leader, a product "sold" cheaply to generate good will and to get people into the store so they're more likely to buy your other products.

Re Sydney Bunker
Was it a single one off membership payment, then no further charge to use the tables?

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Re Sydney Bunker
Was it a single one off membership payment, then no further charge to use the tables?

Yep. IIRC there were still 4x4 tables and one 6x4 in the main area, but members were allowed access to several more 6x4 tables out in the adjoining 'back room'. That's how it is now except it's free.

Thanks Arctik
Sounds pretty good for the $10 fee
Even better value when membership is free I guess

Interesting that they stopped charging. Was there any indication as to why please?

I presume it was part to cover the set-up costs (which if they did it right, would all have been a deduction - promotions - and for the production/processing of the cards).

Once they had numbers up, it would be self-sustaining. As all those who used it would probably buy stuff while in there, even if it was only an 'A' product.

The bunker has slipped a little in the years since it opened. The staff that were there at that time having moved on to other stores or other better paying jobs. It's definitely grimier and there is a smell in the carpet that lingers.

Really, it just doesn't make much sense to charge people to play.

Try to put yourself in a non-customer's shoes. You walk into a store to see what it is they're selling. You see a bunch of little boxes full of plastic that seem really expensive, and you probably walk away right quick. Or, you see the same store with a bunch of people gathered around playing with these little men and you wonder what's going on.

It's essentially free advertising. Maybe it's giving too much undeserved credit, but I'd say somebody somewhere realizes that. That's why stores like the nearest one to me have silly rules like "If you're using the tables, please use the ones closest to the front of the store first." No, I'm not kidding...

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:The primary business of GW is manufacture and retail.

Exactly.

That said, every time they open a new store, it generates a lot of money for the first year, but by 3 years, almost every store they've ever opened has been a net drag on their balance sheets. I mean, why do you think they closed 50 old stores and opened 70 new ones last year?

As such, old stores have two options. Either they inevitably close, or they're eventually going to need to become profitable on their own (as this is a blatantly unsustainable business model in the long term). As such, I think there's the real possibility of charging for tables in certain places in the future. For example, I could see charging 1 GBP a game in Britain. Other places, like the US, where games workshop retail is SO poorly saturating of the gaming market, it would just push those few people who go to GW stores to play into FLGSs, just like almost all other americans.