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I'm thinking of playing kill teams as marines, here is my proposed list...

5 man Sternguard
1 heavy bolter w hellfire rounds (is that possible?)
Power fist w melta bombs
3 scouts w snipers
Total Points: 199

3 snipers have infiltrate
Sergeant and 2 Sternguard have feel no pain

C & C please!

you can't have the same specil rule more that once and for the sternguard I would say drop one or 2 (or the scouts) and put in a DP. means they can Dp down and rapid fire the enemy on first turn.

@madman12367

you can't have the same specil rule more that once and for the sternguard I would say drop one or 2 (or the scouts) and put in a DP. means they can Dp down and rapid fire the enemy on first turn.

Kill teams rules state that I cannot have any unit with an armour value, plus scouts with snipers can't rapid fire. The only reason I brought along scouts was so that they can pin brute squads, and brute squads are often numerous so I'm just focussing on the objective.

Sarge- Preferred enemy
Heavy bolter- Relentless
Plasma Gunner- Feel no pain

Brute squads?
What kill points are you playing? Sounds more like some horrid hybrid of 4th ed and 5th ed.

You have to have normal squad sizes, so the scouts have to be 5 man squads.
Sternguard are ok for Kill Team, but the fist is over the top and eating too much points...sheesh it's another sternguard.

Sternguard hvy bolters do not have Hellfire rounds, the scouts can get one that has something similar, but it would be BS3.

CHR15T09H3R wrote:Kill teams rules state that I cannot have any unit with an armour value,

Please tell me where this is stated. In the Battle Missions book (which has kill team) there is i no such rule for that.

Yeah, you can use rhinos in Kill teams, you wont have points for anything heavier. As said before, you need to buy squads, therefore you cant buy 3 scout models. Sternguards are good because of versatility, but from my experience, Assault Marines are also pretty good in Kill Teams because of their increased move. We also play with more terrain on the table for KT missions.

Yeah, I would go with either sternies in a rhino, or an Assault Squad.

5 Termies.
No upgrades.
Give one FNP.
Give another Infiltrate.
Give the leader (with the power sword, he's pretty bad) stubborn and stick him in the corner in case bad things happen. Also, no need to take anything better than strength 7, since the highest av you can get, iirc, is 12 in kill team.

I thought that would be AV 13.
Ironclad

OSHI-
Forgot about that bugger.
But he does have av 10 on the back, so with fast stuff, deff. killable.

JSK-Fox wrote:

CHR15T09H3R wrote:Kill teams rules state that I cannot have any unit with an armour value,

Please tell me where this is stated. In the Battle Missions book (which has kill team) there is i no such rule for that.

Battle Missions, 4th edition rulebook, I've only got 4th edition rulebook but am using theres rules I found off another forum.


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I would scan the pages with the rules, but isn't that now allowed? (copyright infringement). Would it be ok to copy the rules into a word document with the pictures then add them?

Ok, I've scanned it and this is a clipping saying that no termies or vehicles allowed.

Sanctjud wrote:Brute squads?
What kill points are you playing? Sounds more like some horrid hybrid of 4th ed and 5th ed.

You have to have normal squad sizes, so the scouts have to be 5 man squads.
Sternguard are ok for Kill Team, but the fist is over the top and eating too much points...sheesh it's another sternguard.

Sternguard hvy bolters do not have Hellfire rounds, the scouts can get one that has something similar, but it would be BS3.

This clipping should explain. (It's kill teams not points)

You really should have said you were using 4th ed in the OP, it would have saved a page's worth of confusion. I also believe its against site rules to post parts of the rulebook.

Since I've never played 4th ed I'm afraid I can't really give any advice.

Captain_Trips01 wrote: You really should have said you were using 4th ed in the OP, it would have saved a page's worth of confusion. I also believe its against site rules to post parts of the rulebook.

Since I've never played 4th ed I'm afraid I can't really give any advice.

Oh, well thanks for saying.

So I was correct...some scary hybrid of 4th and 5th editions.


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As suggested...get with the times.
Otherwise, I'm not sure how much advice you are going to get on 4th ed now.

I remember playing less than a handful of games in the 4th ed Kill Team.

I used the 5th ed CSM codex and had something like:

4 plague marines and a Noise Marine with a blast master.
But it used the old rules so had to act as one squad.

There is alot of freedom with the new rules, but if you are looking for advice on a mix of rules then I'm thinking you are alone or will not find too many people with the same experience.

Sanctjud wrote:So I was correct...some scary hybrid of 4th and 5th editions.


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As suggested...get with the times.
Otherwise, I'm not sure how much advice you are going to get on 4th ed now.

I remember playing less than a handful of games in the 4th ed Kill Team.

I used the 5th ed CSM codex and had something like:

4 plague marines and a Noise Marine with a blast master.
But it used the old rules so had to act as one squad.

There is alot of freedom with the new rules, but if you are looking for advice on a mix of rules then I'm thinking you are alone or will not find too many people with the same experience.

Oh, well thanks for saying.

If you're going with Sternguard, then there's no need for a Power Fist, honestly. Take a Lightning Claw if you insist on taking any Power Weapon variant. Melta Bombs are more or less worthless too, since rarely will you go up against anything with an AV, and if you do, the highest (like someone else pointed out) will be a 13. Take the points and invest in either Melta guns or Combi-Melta's instead.

Personally, if I were to use Sternguard, I'd go with this list.

5 Sternguard - 125 Points
Sgt with Lightning Claw/Power Weapon - 15 Points
2 Combi-Melta's - 10 Points
1 Combi-Plasma - 5 Points
1 Combi-Flamer - 5 Points
Razorback - 40 Points

Give the Sgt. Furious Charge
Give the Combi-Plasma either Relentless or Feel No Pain
Give the Combi-Melta Tank Hunter (if you know you're playing against something with an AV)
- OR -
Give the Combi-Flamer Infiltrate (if you know you're not playing against anything with an AV)

Personally, I'm big fan of using your basic 10 man Tactical Squad, and just taking the special weapons to fill in the 30 points left over. You get the most shots that way, and to be honest, your choices of special weapons are pretty damn good already.

Also, I'd like to point out something here...

JSK-Fox wrote:5 Termies....
Give the leader (with the power sword, he's pretty bad) stubborn and stick him in the corner in case bad things happen.

Giving someone Stubborn is absolutely useless, since the only time you'd ever have to make a leadership check is if you took a wound in combat and lost an assault. Most models are 1 wound in Kill Team games, so why anyone would ever take Stubborn (or Eternal Warrior) is quite beyond me. To my knowledge, there's only 1 SM model that comes with more than 1 wound, other than HQ's, and that's Attack Bikes. And even if you play an Attack Bike, I think Eternal Warrior far out suits Stubborn in Kill Team games.

Also, putting him in a corner and just waiting to use him when things go bad is also a very poor strategy. Why not take advantage of the fact that he strikes at Init 4, and use him against Infantry instead? Like with many of the Sgt's I play in Kill Teams, Furious Charge is one of the best rules in the game that you can give him. It's by far a better use of 40 points in a Kill Teams game than just sticking him in a corner. And even if he and 2 other guys die, you're Leadership check still starts at base 9, since all Terminators have the same Leadership value.

Anyways, I hope my advice helped. Good luck!

Rurouni Benshin wrote:If you're going with Sternguard, then there's no need for a Power Fist, honestly. Take a Lightning Claw if you insist on taking any Power Weapon variant. Melta Bombs are more or less worthless too, since rarely will you go up against anything with an AV, and if you do, the highest (like someone else pointed out) will be a 13. Take the points and invest in either Melta guns or Combi-Melta's instead.

Personally, if I were to use Sternguard, I'd go with this list.

5 Sternguard - 125 Points
Sgt with Lightning Claw/Power Weapon - 15 Points
2 Combi-Melta's - 10 Points
1 Combi-Plasma - 5 Points
1 Combi-Flamer - 5 Points
Razorback - 40 Points

Give the Sgt. Furious Charge
Give the Combi-Plasma either Relentless or Feel No Pain
Give the Combi-Melta Tank Hunter (if you know you're playing against something with an AV)
- OR -
Give the Combi-Flamer Infiltrate (if you know you're not playing against anything with an AV)

Personally, I'm big fan of using your basic 10 man Tactical Squad, and just taking the special weapons to fill in the 30 points left over. You get the most shots that way, and to be honest, your choices of special weapons are pretty damn good already.

Also, I'd like to point out something here...

JSK-Fox wrote:5 Termies....
Give the leader (with the power sword, he's pretty bad) stubborn and stick him in the corner in case bad things happen.

Giving someone Stubborn is absolutely useless, since the only time you'd ever have to make a leadership check is if you took a wound in combat and lost an assault. Most models are 1 wound in Kill Team games, so why anyone would ever take Stubborn (or Eternal Warrior) is quite beyond me. To my knowledge, there's only 1 SM model that comes with more than 1 wound, other than HQ's, and that's Attack Bikes. And even if you play an Attack Bike, I think Eternal Warrior far out suits Stubborn in Kill Team games.

Also, putting him in a corner and just waiting to use him when things go bad is also a very poor strategy. Why not take advantage of the fact that he strikes at Init 4, and use him against Infantry instead? Like with many of the Sgt's I play in Kill Teams, Furious Charge is one of the best rules in the game that you can give him. It's by far a better use of 40 points in a Kill Teams game than just sticking him in a corner. And even if he and 2 other guys die, you're Leadership check still starts at base 9, since all Terminators have the same Leadership value.

Anyways, I hope my advice helped. Good luck!

Finally some decent advice which isn't questioning the existance of Kill teams. I chose melta bombs cause I had points to spare and I'm not really a fan of combi-weapons- they just look weird. No point in tank hunter cause nothing with an AV is allowed. Units with more than 1 wound are also disallowed and +2 saves (termies). Yeah stubborn is pretty pointless, I was thinking counter attack or feel no pain. I don't think I'll use power sword plus furious charge cause (iirc) str 5 hitting toug 4 is +4 (to roll), same as str 4 hitting toug 4 so no point other than raised initiative.

CHR15T09H3R wrote:Finally some decent advice which isn't questioning the existance of Kill teams. I chose melta bombs cause I had points to spare and I'm not really a fan of combi-weapons- they just look weird.

Well, if you have 5 points to spare, then you might as well take a Combi-weapon, weird looking or not. *lol*

CHR15T09H3R wrote:No point in tank hunter cause nothing with an AV is allowed. Units with more than 1 wound are also disallowed and +2 saves (termies).

I'm pretty sure AV's are allowed, as well as Terminators. So unless I've read the Battle Missions book differently, you may want to double check that. Otherwise, unless I am mistaken, Tank Hunter could be useful, depending on what you're playing against.

CHR15T09H3R wrote:Yeah stubborn is pretty pointless, I was thinking counter attack or feel no pain. I don't think I'll use power sword plus furious charge cause (iirc) str 5 hitting toug 4 is +4 (to roll), same as str 4 hitting toug 4 so no point other than raised initiative.

Never underestimate the benefits of striking at 1 Init and 1 Str higher... You may still be rolling a 4+ to hit, but now you're wounding on 3+ and disallowing Armor Saves. Those are perfect guys for taking out things you don't want to stay alive long enough to hit you back (like someone else's Sgt with a Power Weapon). And with a Lightning Claw, your chances of wounding are 75% versus 66%.

...Well, against Toughness 4, at least. But who's counting?

Rurouni Benshin, this is why people are having issues.
This is 4th Ed Kill Team. NOT 5th Ed Kill Team. Back then Vehicles were not allowed.

In addition, with the old rules, they operate as one unit. So...... they can shoot, but if they kill what they shoot, then they can't charge.

If they charge, then there's no point to shooting first unless they mathhammer it out that they will only kill enough to leave one alive.

Sanctjud wrote:Rurouni Benshin, this is why people are having issues.
This is 4th Ed Kill Team. NOT 5th Ed Kill Team. Back then Vehicles were not allowed.

In addition, with the old rules, they operate as one unit. So...... they can shoot, but if they kill what they shoot, then they can't charge.

If they charge, then there's no point to shooting first unless they mathhammer it out that they will only kill enough to leave one alive.

Ahh, I see what you're saying now. Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with the 4th ed Kill Team rules. I saw that people were discussing between 4th and 5th ed rules at a point, but overlooked that the OP was using a 4th ed book. My mistake!

But if you ever decide to play by 5th ed rules though, I think my advice is pretty sound. *lol*

At most places i play at we just say no armour values. Kinda makes the game not fun. We ran a tournament with no armour values and i took 7 Plague Marines with 2 plasma guns, taking first. Armour values imo just imbalance it and you face the same kill team over and over again. We had 4 people wanting to bring a Furiso Lib Dreadnaught, which is just slowed.

It's the problem of the gaming group.
Not of the rules.
Kill Team is not supposed to be competitive, it's supposed to be thematic and fun for everyone.... hence the ultra loose rules that come with it.

/shrug. At the end of the day it takes only one melta gun to kill the armored threats.

Zenkaron wrote:We had 4 people wanting to bring a Furiso Lib Dreadnaught, which is just slowed.

A friend of mine did this too, in a recent Kill Teams game.

Sanctjud wrote: At the end of the day it takes only one melta gun to kill the armored threats.

And that was how I exactly responded…

Game ended first turn, with only 1 shot.

Meh.

The first time I played Kill Teams out of the battle missions book, I took an Ironclad, it was imobilised faceing the wrong side of the board. From then on I just load up on sternguard.

Hmmmm... I may as well get battle missions.


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Rurouni Benshin wrote:

CHR15T09H3R wrote:Finally some decent advice which isn't questioning the existance of Kill teams. I chose melta bombs cause I had points to spare and I'm not really a fan of combi-weapons- they just look weird.

Well, if you have 5 points to spare, then you might as well take a Combi-weapon, weird looking or not. *lol*

CHR15T09H3R wrote:No point in tank hunter cause nothing with an AV is allowed. Units with more than 1 wound are also disallowed and +2 saves (termies).

I'm pretty sure AV's are allowed, as well as Terminators. So unless I've read the Battle Missions book differently, you may want to double check that. Otherwise, unless I am mistaken, Tank Hunter could be useful, depending on what you're playing against.

CHR15T09H3R wrote:Yeah stubborn is pretty pointless, I was thinking counter attack or feel no pain. I don't think I'll use power sword plus furious charge cause (iirc) str 5 hitting toug 4 is +4 (to roll), same as str 4 hitting toug 4 so no point other than raised initiative.

Never underestimate the benefits of striking at 1 Init and 1 Str higher... You may still be rolling a 4+ to hit, but now you're wounding on 3+ and disallowing Armor Saves. Those are perfect guys for taking out things you don't want to stay alive long enough to hit you back (like someone else's Sgt with a Power Weapon). And with a Lightning Claw, your chances of wounding are 75% versus 66%.

...Well, against Toughness 4, at least. But who's counting?

Well I guess you're right with the lightening claws cause each character is going to play individual so there is not swapping around the wounds. Or what about preferred enemies instead, power fist with furious charge?
Even if termies are allowed I'm not going to take any they will quickly munch up my 200 points.



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Sanctjud wrote:Rurouni Benshin, this is why people are having issues.
This is 4th Ed Kill Team. NOT 5th Ed Kill Team. Back then Vehicles were not allowed.

In addition, with the old rules, they operate as one unit. So...... they can shoot, but if they kill what they shoot, then they can't charge.

If they charge, then there's no point to shooting first unless they mathhammer it out that they will only kill enough to leave one alive.

Yep it is 4th edition Kill team, I like it cause all units in a squad are individual and you can take a bit of each squad eg: three sternguard, 2 servitors and 1 scout.


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Zenkaron wrote:At most places i play at we just say no armour values. Kinda makes the game not fun. We ran a tournament with no armour values and i took 7 Plague Marines with 2 plasma guns, taking first. Armour values imo just imbalance it and you face the same kill team over and over again. We had 4 people wanting to bring a Furiso Lib Dreadnaught, which is just slowed.

Wait so no armour values is not fun but armour values unbalance the game? I agree with it unbalancing cause then they could just drive to the objective then drive out, easy win.

CHR15T09H3R wrote:
Well I guess you're right with the lightening claws cause each character is going to play individual so there is not swapping around the wounds. Or what about preferred enemies instead, power fist with furious charge?
Even if termies are allowed I'm not going to take any they will quickly munch up my 200 points.

Preferred enemy would be a good rule to take, probably on par with Furious Charge if you took the right Power Weapon. Furious Charge with a Power Fist is a bit of an overkill, since most things already have a Toughness 4. And because of the Power Fist, you're still hitting at Init 1, even with Furious Charge. The point behind Furious Charge is to try and hit before the other guy has a chance to hit back.

Furious Charge would work best with a regular Power Weapon/BP combination, and Preferred Enemy best with Lightning Claws. That way, with the PW/BP combo, you get the extra close combat attack, and hit at a higher Init and Strength. With the Lightning Claw, you're rerolling all To Hit rolls and To Wound rolls, but with one less attack. Both would work well, IMHO.

Rurouni Benshin wrote:

CHR15T09H3R wrote:
Well I guess you're right with the lightening claws cause each character is going to play individual so there is not swapping around the wounds. Or what about preferred enemies instead, power fist with furious charge?
Even if termies are allowed I'm not going to take any they will quickly munch up my 200 points.

Preferred enemy would be a good rule to take, probably on par with Furious Charge if you took the right Power Weapon. Furious Charge with a Power Fist is a bit of an overkill, since most things already have a Toughness 4. And because of the Power Fist, you're still hitting at Init 1, even with Furious Charge. The point behind Furious Charge is to try and hit before the other guy has a chance to hit back.

Furious Charge would work best with a regular Power Weapon/BP combination, and Preferred Enemy best with Lightning Claws. That way, with the PW/BP combo, you get the extra close combat attack, and hit at a higher Init and Strength. With the Lightning Claw, you're rerolling all To Hit rolls and To Wound rolls, but with one less attack. Both would work well, IMHO.

I guess, can you get dual lightening claws for Sergeants or only vanguard vets (save me from having to choose combi-weapon). What about power fist with feel no pain, the rule plus +3 save would bear the grunt of attacks, but then again knowing my dice skills maybe it's better to stay safe.

CHR15T09H3R wrote:
I guess, can you get dual lightening claws for Sergeants or only vanguard vets (save me from having to choose combi-weapon). What about power fist with feel no pain, the rule plus +3 save would bear the grunt of attacks, but then again knowing my dice skills maybe it's better to stay safe.

Sternguard Vets can take paired LC's, but I don't think it's necessary. If you do take them though, be warned they lose both their BP and Bolter. I wouldn't give a Power Fist Feel No Pain, because if it were me playing against you, I'd be using anything AP 1 or 2 to make sure I kill him as quickly as possible. I would sooner take Fleet or Move Through Cover, than give the Power Fist FNP. FNP is a better rule for Plasma Guns who can potentially "Get Hot", IMHO.