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hahaa.. would be kinda against fluff no? maybe the two warlords might fight each other if the enemy is no longer a threat..say, on a roll of 5-6, the two lords start fighting!
its even worse with Wood Elves and Dwarfs...hahahahaaa.... well hell im not going to say i wont use em' i get thunderers, and ally units that fight in Multi-ranks and shoot like hell on earth... Ohhh baby...Im really starting to like this idea come to think of it

Its more of "They Both Fight for good, so they must ally or be overrun - but they still have honor and would not think to betray one another in these fights"

1.) They WERE allies during long periods of Warhammer history.
2.) They are allies of the Empire and share the same enemies.
3.) In Warhamme RPG they fight along each other in the same group.
I see no problem. Esp. as it helps with gaming.

The rules are supposed to be for combined games (2v1 or any game where you have more than 1 general per side) - not for every day use.

As said the ally rules are for multiple players on the same side.. not for a single player to make the most broken list he can

drunkorc wrote:hahaa.. would be kinda against fluff no? maybe the two warlords might fight each other if the enemy is no longer a threat..say, on a roll of 5-6, the two lords start fighting!
its even worse with Wood Elves and Dwarfs...hahahahaaa.... well hell im not going to say i wont use em' i get thunderers, and ally units that fight in Multi-ranks and shoot like hell on earth... Ohhh baby...Im really starting to like this idea come to think of it

They may not be the bestest pals but they don't absolutely hate each other either, they are able to forget about there differences and fight for the greater good and it is possible for dwarfs and elves to have good friendships together its just not

common though.

According to the BRB High Elves can fight alongside Dark Elves. So HE and Dwarves are really the worst of our worries

Also, I can have Warriors of Chaos ally with Dwarves and Orcs to go roflstomp some Empire allied with DE and Tomb Kings...

I may not know that much about the fluff, but I'm pretty sure that shouldn't be kosher.

GW, I am disappoint.

I think Desperate Allies rule was better than saying- "These races will never, ever, ever ally". Gives a mechanic for playing if you can find a way to justify it in your game.

RZ

high elves and dark elves?

IHEARTLARGEBLASTTEMPLATES wrote:high elves and dark elves?

Try Daemons and Lizardmen vs. Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings.

Really.

If you actually read through the Allies rules you'll see that desperate allies never count each other as friendly models. They treat each other as enemy models you can't charge, shoot at or target with spells which makes sense. There is something much more nasty standing in front of them that they have to take on first.

It's not exactly 'fluffy' but it allows friends who own opposite armies still play together on the same team.

Just blame Tzeentch, that's what I do!

GW is giving players the freedom to form their own narratives. Sure, it’s unlikely that Dwarves would ever ally with Orcs, but faced with mutual destruction against a great skaven horde who’s to say what temporary alliance might be formed?

Thing is, you’re welcome to play it straight and line up all the good armies in your group against all the bad armies but what if you’ve got an interesting story that doesn’t line up so neatly. Also, what if your group has an excessive number of good or bad armies?

This way you can form those unlikely alliances, if you want, but there will be some rules effects for doing so. It’s actually a pretty neat little system.

"Try Daemons and Lizardmen vs. Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings.

Really. "

No way, Chaos and Lizzys? the Lizzys (or old ones) were going to close the Gates,
I can however see VC and TK's they all have Bone footmen.

well i guess for a friendly game...maybe.. i know i'd never do it. but to each their own..Damn Tzeentch! quit changing things...
Grr... (as a group of Grey knights telli on a fantsy planet, when will GW start that up again?)

If I ever play on the same side as dwarves with my High Elves I will suggest somekind of grudge rule, just for the chance to see the two leaders starting a fight just when they should be doing something else...it was obviously the dwarf who started it all!

drunkorc wrote:

"Try Daemons and Lizardmen vs. Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings.

Really. "

No way, Chaos and Lizzys? the Lizzys (or old ones) were going to close the Gates,
I can however see VC and TK's they all have Bone footmen.

well i guess for a friendly game...maybe.. i know i'd never do it. but to each their own..Damn Tzeentch! quit changing things...
Grr... (as a group of Grey knights telli on a fantsy planet, when will GW start that up again?)

The old ones were the ones who opened the gates in the first place! Still doesn't make any more sense though...

As for VC vs TK, the khemri HATE Naggash with a passion for what he did to them, he basically cursed their entire country (turning them into those bone foot soldiers....). So their hatred of VC is pretty strong...and since the VC were almost obliterated and forced to flee out of the area, I think the feeling's mutual.

As for the High Elves vs Dark Elves...this one I have a hard time believing...I believe Malekith would let ANYTHING wipe out his hated cousins, even if it meant he had to deal with that something later. Maybe their hatred isn't as strong as I interpreted it as...

Basically what it came down to...is GW made it so people can actually ally up and play with their friends, and not have to think so much about allies. I did a campaign over this last summer using the 7th ediiton rules (because 8th came out half way through) and we ended up having people switch which army they were going to play, since the initial stats we like, 10 chaos armies to 2 order armies. People switched so there could be better ally options. I like this change, so now in cases like that, people can play what they want!

greenbay924 wrote:As for the High Elves vs Dark Elves...this one I have a hard time believing...I believe Malekith would let ANYTHING wipe out his hated cousins, even if it meant he had to deal with that something later. Maybe their hatred isn't as strong as I interpreted it as...

Its so strong he doesn't want someone else killing high elves as he wants the pleasure to be all his

Uh you guy's this is ment to be about Dwarves and High Elves allying.

The enemy of my enemy..... dies next.

The great battle between the Dwarves and High Elves was started by the Dark Elves, as far as i am aware they both know this and harbor some respect for the other race.

EagleArk wrote:The great battle between the Dwarves and High Elves was started by the Dark Elves, as far as i am aware they both know this and harbor some respect for the other race.

Not quite.

The Dark Elves were raiding the Dwarves after the sundering. The Dwarves hadn't known about the split, so they sent an emmissary to Ulthuan demanding recompense. The Dwarven emmissary was stupid and drew his axe in the court of the Phoenix King. The High Elves were stupid and shaved his beard in retaliation.

That is what started the War of the Beard.

After the Dwarves captured the Phoenix Crown, they were someone satisfied with the outcome. The High Elves knowing they had greater dangers to face left it at that as well. They withdrew from the Old World to concentrate their efforts on the Dark Elf menace. Now, a couple thousand years later there is an uneasy peace between the two.

The dwarves settled the Grudge when they killed the High King in the War of the Beard.

The grudge is settled. They distrust all Elves to this point, but they do not want to kill them outright.

The curent Phoenix King visited the Dwarf realm before he was crowned. His aim was to foster friend ship and trust. Finubar is an exceptional statesman and i dare say he would have met with some success.

The HE and DW have also fought together in some fairly major conflicts ie. Hellfen and the Last Great War Against Chaos.

drunkorc wrote:

"Try Daemons and Lizardmen vs. Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings.

Really. "

No way, Chaos and Lizzys? the Lizzys (or old ones) were going to close the Gates,
I can however see VC and TK's they all have Bone footmen.

well i guess for a friendly game...maybe.. i know i'd never do it. but to each their own..Damn Tzeentch! quit changing things...
Grr... (as a group of Grey knights telli on a fantsy planet, when will GW start that up again?)

VC and TK may have bone men but thates where it ends the VC hate the tomb kings

djones520 wrote:

EagleArk wrote:The great battle between the Dwarves and High Elves was started by the Dark Elves, as far as i am aware they both know this and harbor some respect for the other race.

Not quite.

The Dark Elves were raiding the Dwarves after the sundering. The Dwarves hadn't known about the split, so they sent an emmissary to Ulthuan demanding recompense. The Dwarven emmissary was stupid and drew his axe in the court of the Phoenix King. The High Elves were stupid and shaved his beard in retaliation.

That is what started the War of the Beard.

After the Dwarves captured the Phoenix Crown, they were someone satisfied with the outcome. The High Elves knowing they had greater dangers to face left it at that as well. They withdrew from the Old World to concentrate their efforts on the Dark Elf menace. Now, a couple thousand years later there is an uneasy peace between the two.

That's actually not true.

The Dwarves knew of the Sundering and the split of the Druchii/Asur.

However, the Druchii raided the Dwarves while using Asur equipment. They left things behind that would clearly point towards the Asur being the raiders.

True the Dark Elves did wear High Elves armour but it does not say about weapons as I quote."Dark Elves garbed as warriors of Ulthuan,fell upon the Dwarf caravans,seizing their goods." Which means they may or may not have used High Elves weaponary when raiding the Dwarf caravans.

Fluff wise, the Dwarfs will still have a grudge of the High Elves no matter what happens. The dwarfs will never fully trust the High Elves but will fight together if there no other choice... maybe. I'd use Desperate allies rules.

Grungni wrote: Fluff wise, the Dwarfs will still have a grudge of the High Elves no matter what happens. The dwarfs will never fully trust the High Elves but will fight together if there no other choice... maybe. I'd use Desperate allies rules.

Wait so dwarfs are as likely to ally with goblins as they are with elves?
I'd say suspicious allies is best for fluffy games.

I don't see why I can't ignore these rules.

Your all right. Who's to say hitler and Stalin wouldn't have made a real alliance had the idea been a beneficial one? Worse, Hannibal and Scipio Africanus (I think that's right?)

They're guidelines, not marble engraved and stained with blood.

Remember the most important rule: bend the rules for comfort, not to break the game.