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I am starting high elves but I am not sure what lore to use. I am planning on running a Archmage, Lv4, Silverwand, Guardian Phoenix with Lore of Life to resurect my expensive elves and a Mage, Lv2, Seerstaff of Saphery, Talisman of Protection either with High Magic or Lore of Metal. Any suggestions?

I'm still a novice when it comes to WHFB so take this with a grain of salt, but I'd go with High Magic. Almost all of the spells are useful in a wide variety of situations - that ward save is key, especially on a unit like Swordmasters - and Drain Magic will help you keep the upper hand when it comes to the magic phase.

Metal all the way

My lvl 2 mages always take HE magic for Arrow attraction and that 5+ ward save. If i'm running Teclis it will depend on the army i'm facing.

I'm personally a fan of Lore of Light. The double movement/ +1 attack spell makes sword master go from good to god awful amazing. 10 inch move plus an average of 7 inch charge plus 3 attacks base..... OMG
Lore of Life is also nice for that ignore miscast at a 2+ and dwellers below that will wreck skaven, lizardmen, emipre, and Elves. Also +4 toughness makes any unit badass.

For big toughness/ armor save armies, lore of shadow or metal is the best.

I think on paper, Life looks pretty nice, especially if you have the Loremaster ability or some other way of guaranteeing the nice buffs that cover for some of the army's weaknesses.

I have refined my list now and want to use Teclis with Lore of life and Mage, Lv2, Seerstaff of Saphery with High Magic.
Do you think this will work or would another lore work better.

By the way my main opponents will be Dwarfs, Tomb Kings and Deamons.

I think I might run Teclis with Life and Mage with High or Metal.

RaptorsTallon wrote:I have refined my list now and want to use Teclis with Lore of life and Mage, Lv2, Seerstaff of Saphery with High Magic.
Do you think this will work or would another lore work better.

By the way my main opponents will be Dwarfs, Tomb Kings and Deamons.

This is the exact setup that I came up with on paper for my High Elves. Although, for me Teclis is going to take the Lore most needed for the army I'm facing obviously. But Mainly he'll either take Life or Shadow. My army is shooty/magicky. My lvl 2 will cast the curse of arrow attraction on a unit. After I cast the curse of arrow attraction and possibly one other spell from my lvl 2, I plan on casting drain magic in hopes that they will save DD for Teclis. Then Teclis will IR a Withering spell on the same unit, lowering their T by D3. Then, I unload around 100 shots into it. Rinse and repeat on other units. That should completely destroy the unit if not nearly do so, at least in theory.


If I take Life with Teclis, then I'll be casting The Throne of Vines,The Dwellers Below, and the Toughness spell.

My magic and shooting require a lot of synergy on paper, I'll let you know how it turns out in the field.

EDIT: I just realized the -3 leadership spell is from the Lore of Death, not shadow. Oh well, I think my plan will still work.

Well DarkAngel, I like the way it sounds. I'll try it out next week too, and maybe come up with some consensus. My toughest opponents are Dwarfs; nobody else is really that tough to beat. Maybe Skaven on a good day.

eledamris wrote:Well DarkAngel, I like the way it sounds. I'll try it out next week too, and maybe come up with some consensus. My toughest opponents are Dwarfs; nobody else is really that tough to beat. Maybe Skaven on a good day.

Hey thanks. If you could try it out like you said that would be awesome. I'd love to hear how your battle goes and how your magic and shooting went.

The thing is there is the odd chance you dont get to spells you want, and though i have not looked at Tecilis in my dex jsut because i find him overcosted i dont remeber him having a Seer Staff, so he is still random. For Tecilis's price you could fit in two Lvl 4s one iwht book of hoeth. Against armies like Dwarves lore of metal (if you can get past their dispell) destroys them. Also not being able to choose your lore during deployment makes it a bit more difficult to prepare yourself for what is to come

Teclis has the High Loremaster special rule which states that he knows all the spells in whichever lore he chooses so no problems with not getting the spells and that any castings that include a double will be cast with irresistible force so no dispeling.

Old Man Yarrik wrote:The thing is there is the odd chance you dont get to spells you want, and though i have not looked at Tecilis in my dex jsut because i find him overcosted i dont remeber him having a Seer Staff, so he is still random. For Tecilis's price you could fit in two Lvl 4s one iwht book of hoeth. Against armies like Dwarves lore of metal (if you can get past their dispell) destroys them. Also not being able to choose your lore during deployment makes it a bit more difficult to prepare yourself for what is to come

Well, fortunately with Teclis, he has the High Loremaster special rule that gives him all of the spells of his chosen lore. Technically it says he gets all "6" spells of his chosen lore, but I think that is just because they missed that in the FAQ. He should be allowed to have all 6 spells + the signature spell for a total of 7 spells. But that's something to talk about with your opponent.

The other good thing about Teclis is that he chooses his Lore right before the game starts instead of during the army list creation. So, that will help with Lore choice since you can see who you are playing against first.

And he causes IF with a roll of any double not just 6's, and they only count as miscasts on double 6's. So, he should be able to get through anyone's magical defenses pretty easily.

But I could understand your point if Teclis didn't have all of these neat special rules. =D

You could use two level 4s though and pretty much have the exact same thing as him, thats my one problem with Tecilis

But 2 Lv4s are 45pts more than Teclis without any upgrades (520pts between them) which stops them being used in 2000pts games and are getting over 700pts between them with upgrades (Book of hoeth, Banner of sorcery, Dispel scroll, Staff of solidity) so surely Teclis is the better option.

That and teclis ignores his first miscast, gets to pick his lore before the game, etc etc.

He really should be about 700 points...

ShivanAngel wrote:That and teclis ignores his first miscast, gets to pick his lore before the game, etc etc.

He really should be about 700 points...

But I'm glad he's not.

ShivanAngel wrote:That and teclis ignores his first miscast, gets to pick his lore before the game, etc etc.

He really should be about 700 points...

Right, he ignores the first miscast of each of his magic phases, not just the first. So, it's that much better. =D

Also, I'm glad he's not 700 pts. He's actually pretty easy to kill if you know how. Besides, I'm more afraid of tons of war machines than one Teclis. It's easier to get tons of war machines that are more reliable too lol.

Although I haven't played with Battle Lores yet, I'd take Lore of Life to give a handy +2 (or was it even +3?) Toughness. Say hello to my little friends! T5/T6 Swordmasters/White Lions/Spearman/Phoenix Guards could be awesome.

Shadow blends with HEs quite well.
The debuffs make the STR 3 not such a hinderance. An average debuff of 2 toughness with make spearmen wound a T4 ogre on a 3+ instead of a 5+, literally twice as many wounds!

Mindrazor is also just stupid OP when dealing with 20 attacks that ASF and can use the generals LD. One block of 20 spearmen close to Teclis suddenly have 20 STR 10 attacks that ASF, enough to wreck a STank. (note: there is some debate as to if you can use the generals LD with mind razor)

Finally the innate ability of shadow is very good for keeping your mage safe. You can move him to any unit that is not being engaged.

Ockamz mindrazor is unmodified leadership, so you cant use your generals, but that still makes it S8 iirc.

I am yet to get the rule book or battle magic cards as GW was shut when I tryed to get the cards so can somebody please explain the mindrazor spell to me.

when they attack the treat the strength of the hit as their unmodified leadership instead of their strength.

ShivanAngel wrote:when they attack the treat the strength of the hit as their unmodified leadership instead of their strength.

Ahh damn, you see, im the dwarf player he`s talking about and dwarf leadership...

So, is it awkward seeing all of the stuff online that we've been telling your High Elf friend about? lol

No he`s just a sneaky russian. (pun, were not really russian)

Teclis with lore of life.

I have been told today that Lore of Heavens is good to hide Teclis at the edge of the board so he won't get killed easily. Is Lore of Heavens any good? Any other options?

Old Man Yarrik wrote:You could use two level 4s though and pretty much have the exact same thing as him, thats my one problem with Tecilis

Lvl.4 Archmage - 260 base

Irrestible Force on any doubles item - 100 points

Ignore one miscast per game item - 20 points (Teclis easily gets to do this several times per game and spells still go off, worth at least 60 points.)

Loremaster (know 7 spells) - HE can't even take, costs a Slann 50 points

Teclis gains D3 power dice per turn - roughly same as banner of Sorcery, costs 50 points

Teclis gains D3 dispel dice per turn - no other way to get this for HE. Worth at least 50 points.

Super Scroll - autodispels a spell and good chance to destroy the spell forever. HE can't buy, Costs a dwarf 50 points.

Leadership 10 Teclis as general - I'd say worth at least 25-ish.

I'll say moot on the S2 T2 because the auto-wound on 2+ and no-armor-save ASF sword. Trade-off of styles.

////

Current tally-
Teclis actual cost: 475 points
Cost of archmage given all Teclis bonuses: 645 points
Teclis costs 170 points less than the magic items should cost him. That's the equivalent of getting 2-3 good magic items completely free, which is particularly a huge deal since it means you can use an archmage who has 645-points-power in a 2000 point game for less than 500.

Since the winds of magic are fixed, 2 Lvl.4s would only give you an extra 1/6th of a power dice per turn. Hardly comparable to the 1-3 extra dice Teclis gets.

Teclis costs points because he is completely incredible. He's one of the best casters in the game. He's one of the best dispellers in the game. He's utterly reliable (laughs off a miscast each turn and knows every spell = pure reliability.)

When you throw down some super spell with several dice and like a 90% chance of it being undispellable, he earns back his cost real quick. When he instantly stops a huge spell which was going to blow up your expensive elves, he earns back his cost real quick.


On an unrelated note, the last game I played was HE vs. Lizardmen. I put Teclis in a horde of White Lions and used lore of death. My lvl.2 had Annulian crystal. That was an average swing of 4 whole dice! (He loses 1 dice, I gain 1 dice, I gain d3 dice - swings his magic phase by 3-5 dice.) It was that banner one, so I had a small 14 Swordmasters with Banner of Sorcery (d3 power dice.) in the corner hiding. It was amazing, several turns I reached 13-14 power dice so I had to discard the extras. Even if I rolled 1-1, I'd end up with an average of 6.33 power dice and opponent only 1 dispel dice. Pretty much always able to get 1 super spell off per turn if needed. (Since Teclis gets even an 18+ spell off 84.8% with 5 dice, 96.4% off with 6 dice. And he almost always gets IF on 5-6 dice.)

3 ranks of White Lions doing ASF S6 attacks tore through all his S4 salamanders and his S4 temple guard with slann unit, plus they could charge skinks with their 3+ armor save ignoring most of the skink shooting completely.

I used Death with Teclis to try it out. I killed his Engine of the Gods priest instantly with 2 wounds (forget if it was the Strength or toughness tests.) and I did 4 wounds to his stegadon using the leadership-test attack since steg only has unmodified Ld6 compared to Ld10 Teclis. That's something like 300 points earned in a single magic phase. His TG were stubborn/coldbloodLd9 so the Fear/terror spell and -3Ld spell were never used. The horde of white lions killed like 14 TG in a single charge so his slann was left sitting with 1 champion left.

I'm also considering Life-teclis in a horde of White Lions with the move banner, imagine 30 WL 6" move, S6 T7 with rerolled attacks and ASF. Possibly 4+ ward save in addition to their 3+ armor save against shooting. Resurrect any Lions that die and just tear the heart out of the enemy army.

[quote=TheBloodGod
Current tally-
Teclis actual cost: 475 points
Cost of archmage given all Teclis bonuses: 645 points
Teclis costs 170 points less than the magic items should cost him. That's the equivalent of getting 2-3 good magic items completely free, which is particularly a huge deal since it means you can use an archmage who has 645-points-power in a 2000 point game for less than 500.

Since the winds of magic are fixed, 2 Lvl.4s would only give you an extra 1/6th of a power dice per turn. Hardly comparable to the 1-3 extra dice Teclis gets.

Teclis costs points because he is completely incredible. He's one of the best casters in the game. He's one of the best dispellers in the game. He's utterly reliable (laughs off a miscast each turn and knows every spell = pure reliability.)

When you throw down some super spell with several dice and like a 90% chance of it being undispellable, he earns back his cost real quick. When he instantly stops a huge spell which was going to blow up your expensive elves, he earns back his cost real quick.


On an unrelated note, the last game I played was HE vs. Lizardmen. I put Teclis in a horde of White Lions and used lore of death. My lvl.2 had Annulian crystal. That was an average swing of 4 whole dice! (He loses 1 dice, I gain 1 dice, I gain d3 dice - swings his magic phase by 3-5 dice.) It was that banner one, so I had a small 14 Swordmasters with Banner of Sorcery (d3 power dice.) in the corner hiding. It was amazing, several turns I reached 13-14 power dice so I had to discard the extras. Even if I rolled 1-1, I'd end up with an average of 6.33 power dice and opponent only 1 dispel dice. Pretty much always able to get 1 super spell off per turn if needed. (Since Teclis gets even an 18+ spell off 84.8% with 5 dice, 96.4% off with 6 dice. And he almost always gets IF on 5-6 dice.)

3 ranks of White Lions doing ASF S6 attacks tore through all his S4 salamanders and his S4 temple guard with slann unit, plus they could charge skinks with their 3+ armor save ignoring most of the skink shooting completely.

I used Death with Teclis to try it out. I killed his Engine of the Gods priest instantly with 2 wounds (forget if it was the Strength or toughness tests.) and I did 4 wounds to his stegadon using the leadership-test attack since steg only has unmodified Ld6 compared to Ld10 Teclis. That's something like 300 points earned in a single magic phase. His TG were stubborn/coldbloodLd9 so the Fear/terror spell and -3Ld spell were never used. The horde of white lions killed like 14 TG in a single charge so his slann was left sitting with 1 champion left.

I'm also considering Life-teclis in a horde of White Lions with the move banner, imagine 30 WL 6" move, S6 T7 with rerolled attacks and ASF. Possibly 4+ ward save in addition to their 3+ armor save against shooting. Resurrect any Lions that die and just tear the heart out of the enemy army.