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Now, before I say (write?) anything else, I just want to point out that I'm new to WHFB, so I might be missing something obvious, but:

What's the point of chariots? They're massively expensive for one model, and from what I can see they don't have that great stats. What are they for?

Impact hits. And that's pretty much it.

Which army are you talking about though? Because beastmen chariots are actually really quite good. They can take a huge chunk out of a unit on the turn they charge. It's only after that they get splatted.

lunarman wrote:Impact hits. And that's pretty much it.

Which army are you talking about though? Because beastmen chariots are actually really quite good. They can take a huge chunk out of a unit on the turn they charge. It's only after that they get splatted.

This definitely. Don't look to chariots for solo auto-breaking units. They work best in pairs at least charging a unit already in combat in a flank/rear.

Like Lexx and lunarman have said charoits are best used for flank charges to help win a combat between 2 blocks already in combat.

So chariots are basically for charging the flank/rear to get 2+ to combat res? And I was talking about HE chariots, didn't consider the fact that there's different ones >.<.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:So chariots are basically for charging the flank/rear to get 2+ to combat res? And I was talking about HE chariots, didn't consider the fact that there's different ones >.<.

No chariots are for impact hits, which is d6 hits at the strength of the chariort before anything else happens in combat, but you only get the on the first turn.

Chariots are also for lending 3D6-D6" of pursuit after they help win a combat - beastmen are once again the best example, since minos only pursue D6" but that friendly tuskgor cart who charged with them is much faster.

With initiative-based combat impacts are pretty huge, and no auto-pop @ S7 (or nigh auto-destruction upon contacting terrain) is certainly helpful as well, but I do agree that the pendulum has swung the other way more, with steadfast and no rank-breaking. Chariots are support units, and pretty decent at that job. Also they look cool, and multi-charges will certainly sting.

- Salvage

Goblin chariots and pump-wagons are pretty cheap... in terms of points only.

Boss_Salvage wrote:Chariots are also for lending 3D6-D6" of pursuit after they help win a combat - beastmen are once again the best example, since minos only pursue D6" but that friendly tuskgor cart who charged with them is much faster.

With initiative-based combat impacts are pretty huge, and no auto-pop @ S7 (or nigh auto-destruction upon contacting terrain) is certainly helpful as well, but I do agree that the pendulum has swung the other way more, with steadfast and no rank-breaking. Chariots are support units, and pretty decent at that job. Also they look cool, and multi-charges will certainly sting.

- Salvage

Indeed. At least they have a viable role in 8th edition.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:Goblin chariots and pump-wagons are pretty cheap... in terms of points only.

I 'unno, the Snotling Pump Wagons are pretty good patrolling the rear of your army / its flanks (should someone like using small flanking units) as a one-shot 2D6 S4, and Wolf Chariots are pretty fast for a S5 Scythed Chariot (2" more than most others of the same impact-potential). Add in that Tricksy Trinket-boss Wolf Chariots can be nasty to get active combat against Daemons and Phoenix Guard (or pretty much any unit that relies on Ward Saves but isn't stuck with a 6+)...

Overall, as said, Chariots are something you use alongside other units to get a few extra points of Combat Resolution and extra speed for a pursuit. They are somewhat decent as Skirmisher guards as well, what with the fact that at +1 for Charging and them likely to get more wounds than the enemy they'll often win by at least two points, but then pretty much anything made for fighting in combat can chew through skirmishers (sans Dryads and Flamers) without much issue.

Chaos Chariots are pretty neat. They are a little expensive, but 2 Halberd toting warriors and 2 s4 steeds tends to add onto the pain that is d6+1 S5 impact hits.

Tomb King chariots on the otherhand are not as effective. Only D3 Impact hits.

The only chariot in the empire list is pretty sweet, but not really a typical case. Its main function is to be all but unkillable.

Ogre Scraplaunchers are awsome too. possably the best Chariot/Warmachine in the game.

able to shoot a Str3 pieplate with killing blow while moving is awsome.

it also hangs at the rear of the army making it less vulnerable.

FacelessMage wrote:Tomb King chariots on the otherhand are not as effective. Only D3 Impact hits.

well they are light and bony. still they are the only chariot RnF unit. plus it is a little better option than their "heavy cav" imo (which is like what? a normal steed, light armor, shield, and spear?)

In terms of HE chariots for the TS, stick with the Lion Chariots. They cost a little bit more, but are FAR more effective. 2 White lions who hit at S 6, D6 impact hits at S5, the lions have 2 attacks each at S 5, and it causes fear.

In 7th Chariots would die due to high S hits, but I do not think that is the case with 8th (please correct me if im wrong on that). This actually makes chariots a little more desirable in 8th than they were in 7th.

Like many units in 8th, chariots now require some semblence of strategy and a plan. As you start to play the game more often you will learn which units are the ideal ones you want to hit with your chariots. Impact hits, although random, can actually be quite devastating.

Keep in mind that if you are playing as your HE, that impact hits will go off before the Speed of Asuryan. Chariots are actually quite effective AGAINST HE due to their low toughness and armour.

Chariots are the cruise missiles of warhammer. You "launch" them at the enemy to do some damage. They work best in combos with other units.

Let's say your opponent has a unit 5 models wide. You attack him with a column unit (5 wide and many ranks) with a chariot on each side of your unit. The chariots can attack because they are diagonally in contact but only 2 (3 with spears) models can attack back at each chariot.

You have a good chance to break the enemy unit in one turn. Then you can run them down with the chariot(s).

Also 2 chariots working together can take down small units that don't have many ranks. They are also good at killing war machines and most missile troops.

Think of them as a specialty unit and not as the main force and they can work well.

If you are playing HE then I can see an infinite amount of better places to put the points into other then chariots. Some armies they are worth taking with but HE are already fast so they can pursue fairly well and you have cavalry as well for that. I'd rather see you spend the extra points on another rank or 2 of swordmasters or white lions though.

Are chariots good places for characters? WoC lets you pop a Lord or Hero onto a chariot, though it displaces a crewman. That seems like it would look really cool, but I don't know that it is better than a jugger or daemonic steed (both Monsterous Beast Mounts now) for the price. For some reason it is setting off my "You only like it because it will look neat on the table!" warning system.

Characters in chariots are used to hit harder, not to break units. They can't break a unit on their own, but said Chariot becomes much more nasty to the enemy.

Ex: Goblin Wolf Chariot w/ Tricksy Trinket & Ulag's Akrit Axe, versus Daemons, Phoenix Guard, Forest Spirits, or so on. At the start of the combat, D6+1 S5 hits... at -2 to their save an no Ward Saves. Later at initiative order, 3-to-4 S5 attacks re-rolling failed To Hits also at -2 / no Ward: Against Phoenix Guard, if the Character Lives that's an average of 5-7 wounds against them. You probably just wiped out a rank, and if you charged in with a durable brick (See: Successfully netting Night Goblins, Orcs w/ Shields, BOrcs w/ Shields) you're now likely going to win said Combat.

Now, if you remove the brick from the above equation, and hit the flank with the Chariot, you might still win the combat (Active combat resolution of 7-9 on average, Phoenix Guard need three wounds to tie the lowest average and five the highest, with only four attacking models needing 4's to wound). But, even if you win by - say, three points (you cause six wounds, but they caused a wound back), they're Steadfast. Next round, you don't have the Impact Hits or Charge Bonus: You're now those four no-Ward attacks (and the measily two crew & wolves) versus a brick of Phoenix Guard, who are likely about to rotate and deny you the Flank bonus (and get themselves +5 attacks) to boot.

Said nasty Character Chariot just went from giving 6+ points of active combat resolution to likely getting run down / off the board.

The same applies elsewhere, in some cases more notably and some cases less notably. For the most part, if you have a Character in a Chariot they're not going to need much extra armor (is it still +2 like a Barded Steed? I couldn't find anything elsewhere, so it might only be +1 now, but that's still a 2+ save with just Chaos Armor, Chariot, and Dragon Helm), and will probably be used either to insure maximum bonus combat resolution or as the Goblin with some tricksy plan for it (This Chariot is a Leadership Bomb, this Chariot is a Buff Provider, this Chariot scares away Monsters, and so on).

Played against my buddy who ran Orcs and Goblins, running 3 Wolf Chariots, 3 Boar Chariots and had 2 characters in chariots and have to say, rolled me pretty good. Couple benefits from chariots (at least in the 7th edition "lower tier" lists) that I've seen:

1. Changes to fear and terror guarantee your chariots are going to make it in. OG, Beastmen and others have extremely cheap chariots, but were balanced out by low LD. Now that they can charge in and still get their impact hits - so what if their WS becomes 1? Your still looking at Str 5 impact hits, hopefully having scythes.

2. The charge range on chariots is incredible. Mvt 7-9, plus 3d6 take the highest? Your usually looking somewhere around 14-18 inch charge range. With a first turn march of 7-9, you can be in pretty much anywhere by Turn 2.

3. Durable. 4 or 5 wounds with at least T4 and an armor save? With losing the insta pop, they not only become more survivable but also create the problem of "too many targets to choose from". Example - running beastmen, you can field 10-12 tuskgor chariots easily. Keeping your general within range in case 1 or 2 get killed (and the resulting panic checks), there are simply too many that can get into combats to effectively stop.

4. Changes to terrain rules. Now your only taking wounds on a "1" if you move through or into terrain, their mobility became much, much better.

I've actually been playtesting a Beastmen army at 2500 points that consists of (1) Beastlord on a Razorgor chariot, (2) Wargors on Razorgor chariots, (10) Tuskgor chariots and (3) Razorgor chariots, and a Giant and it is just plain nasty! The only effective way I've seen an opponent try and beat it is getting 1st turn and concentrating fire on 1 chariot to try and panic the surrounding ones. With such a large charge range, you can effectively do multiple chariot charges into a unit and usually score high enough on your impact hits that you can seriously decimate a unit in that same turn. Steadfast you may not break them, but your then setting your other chariots up for impact hits. 2 in the front and next turn 1 or 2 in the sides of the enemy will hurt anyone's day.

Just some of my thoughts, but I think chariots became immensely better!

Kills on wheels.

on #2, pretty sure chariots cant march, dont have my rulebook in front of me though...

on #4, I thought if you failed a dangerous terrain test you didnt take a wound, but lost the model, again if someone that has the rulebook with them right now could confirm/deny this.

They don't die outright, but do suffer D6 wounds rather than one, i can't find anytthing in the rules forbidding them to march either.

chariots cannot march..p86 of the BRB...under the SPLIT PROFILE heading..

chariots take d6 wounds IF it fails a dangerous terrain check in terrain where they have to test..page 117 of the BRB

yeah even then i wouldnt run a chariot through dangerous terrain.

Well i got half of it right

I think I heard that orc/goblin chariots don't suffer from animosity. That'd make them extra reliable for some tactical maneuvers. I don't play O&G though, just what I heard.

Yup no animosity, which makes them some of the most reliable flanking options in the game due to high speed, impact hits and low points costs.

Malleus wrote:The only chariot in the empire list is pretty sweet, but not really a typical case. Its main function is to be all but unkillable.

Wait, the empire has a chariot?