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Hey guys, Ive been collecting & playing Fantasy for over a decade & was reluctant in starting 40k do to the limited space & the lack of understanding of the game. but do to the popularity I am contimplating on getting an army just "to have" & learn the game. now I need some input from you veteran gamers as to what I should invest in, I preferr to purchase every troop type that an army offers so money is not a limit just need the basic understanding of some of the armies listed below, what they offer & how they function.

In order of preference:

Blood Angels
Space Wolves
Chaos Marines
Black Templars
Space Marines

I would also like to know which are most current (as I dont want to invest in an army & find out they will be redone in less than a year & have to reinvest) whats most competetive & if any use any type of "magic" besides Eldars mind abilities.

Im am greatful for anyomne who makes time to help me out on this.
so can anyone help me?

as for competitiveness

the top three of your list is the most competitive in varying order

blood angels offer you CC ability, and super dreadnaught, and many psychic power

spacewolves offer yet another CC, and fast movement

chaos marines offer you customization

wich is more resilient? & do SW offer psychic powers too?

They all have psykers of some kind, except for BT, they don't trust them.

BA give you a lot of speed and mobility.

SW is well, wolfy, their fluff is awesome, and perform very well at all ranges.

CSM work very well @ close range.

BT I have no idea about, though they seem very melee based.

SM is the most flexible, except for jump pack troops (that belongs to BA) you can take a bunch of dreadnoughts, cheap TH/SS termies, and biker troops.

as far as durability, which can survive the longest in regular gaming conditions?

like Ive heard Nurgle troops are very tough to kill, that said what do Nurgle Marines lack?

WeeDawgNYC wrote:Hey guys, Ive been collecting & playing Fantasy for over a decade & was reluctant in starting 40k do to the limited space & the lack of understanding of the game. but do to the popularity I am contimplating on getting an army just "to have" & learn the game. now I need some input from you veteran gamers as to what I should invest in, I preferr to purchase every troop type that an army offers so money is not a limit just need the basic understanding of some of the armies listed below, what they offer & how they function.

What do you want to do, Shoot, Chop, or both?

I prefer to chop, but would like units that can shoot too..lol

As far as durability, I think PM win hands down, they are T4(5) with FNP, so they are highly resilient to small arms. And they can take two special weapons, which make them very powerful in the short range game.

That said, PM have this odd allergic reaction to the following: plasma weapons, melta weapons, krak missiles, power fists, and power weapons (though this is only a mild reaction, the others are much more severe).

And they are basically kind of useless past 24"

WeeDawgNYC wrote:I prefer to chop, but would like units that can shoot too..lol

Space marines, in all their flavors are jacks of all trades, and masters of none. the Super Shooty Armies can out shoot them, and the Super Close combat armies can rip them up. However, that is also their advantage. You can press on the enemies dis-advantage, and beat him where he is weak. However, if you try to go against them where they are strong, you will most likley lose. ... don't get in a shooting match with Tau, and don't get in a close combat fight with Tyranids.



This is my opinion, the order of armies, from choppy to shooty is.

Bugs - Chaos Daemons - Orks - Eldar - Dark Eldar - Black Templars - Blood Angles - Space Marines - Space Wolves - Daemon hunters - Witch Hunters - Necrons - Imperial Guard - Tau



Everything from Eldar to Witch hunters is really mix and match, and depends on army composition

Vangaurd your the man! woul


so Space Wolves are the shootiest of my choices?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
what about Death Gaurd? they same very tough to take out but to what price, what is their weakness?

I don't think space wolfs are more shooty than SM or BA... But anyways, you shouldn't go searching for most competitive army, but to one you like the most... As for your top preference, they are all some kind of marines... So I guess that you like the idea behind the marines, and their cool look... Only force that goes outside of general SM is chaos (as much as they look so similar at first glance, they're not)... So I don't think you'd go wrong by choosing any of them, especially if you choose from BA, SM or SW... Ofc, chaos marines are great too... Just make sure you know what it is that makes them so different than previous three...

Anyways, choose the one you like models and fluff and don't be bothered about who is the best... You are the one that will have to look at your army and enjoy playing it, collecting and painting...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I personally like plain SM... I find their lack of specialization strength and not weakness...
It's like this:
If you play chaos marines you will specialize: So perhaps you will use your chaos to be CC in rhinos, drive to opponent charge him and that's it... You will try to prevail your tactic on your opponent similar every game (i'm not saying same)... But if you play SM you can't do that... You can try, and probably will fail because there is another army that is better in that one thing you do... So you have to create a efficient all-rounded army that can react differently to other armies... And it can be a weakness, but in the end, as Vanguard said, you can use your not best abilities to exploit opponent weaknesses... And that is just the style I love to play... I like to react on the battlefield... I like to play every game differently, using my troops every time differently and that is exactly what SM is all about...
So if you like this idea, then SM are probably the best army for you... But if not, then avoid them... There are far better armies at shooting, far better armies in CC and far more mobilized armies to outmaneuver opponent...
Hope this helps

Chinchilla wrote:I don't think space wolfs are more shooty than SM or BA... But anyways, you shouldn't go searching for most competitive army,

Nah chilla, Im not searching for "the most" competitive one just one that will I will be able to use both in friendly games as well as in tornaments. Im not looking to be a power player. I do like the space wolves & death guard feel but want an army that I can mix up from time to time (death from afar or in your face) & have some versatility.

I didn't mean it that way
I just think that the most important thing is to have that "feel" you were talking about

So, I encourage you to read the codex of the space wolf then... Take your time... Learn their story... Get to know the background of the force... And if you love it then by all means go for it
And go through the units, just to feel the base...

Unfortunately my experience with the SW is rather poor ( or better to say non ) so I can't help you much....

But there are far better players here who are also experts in SW...

Welcome to 40k universe

I personally like the SW fluff. A bunch of drinking, womanizing, prideful, hunting. Its just awesome. And when they go hunting, immediately after they a feast, first one back presides over it, last one serves everyone else. You can see how much fun that would be!

Hey man, hoping to help...

Dont grab SW for melee, they are a very defensive army with some lots of fire support. They can stand melee to defend, but lack the real strenght on it. Besides, they fluff is awesome, i just dont like the lack of jump packs
PS: wolves own one of the most usefull psychic powers on the game: Jaws of the Wolf.

BA is the most offensive Marines you can found on melee, i dont like the fluff, but like rules a lot (i even created my own chapter, based on fire, flames and wings, just to play them without that "we are beutifull, blonde and furious marines", someday i will post the fluff of the Crimson Wings on dakka).
If you like melee and jump packs go for BA.

As i have read, Black Templar have CC fluff, but lack the real strenght to really endure it.

I never have seem CSM acting, but a look on they codex show some awesome ways to get a melee with good fire support...

This is exacly how I got into the game, I was hesitant about it at first because 4th ed had a reputation for being about how many dice you could throw at the enemy. While the same maxim is true to an extent now, if you're a tactical mind you will find a new home with 40k and plenty of room to explore a wide world of possibilities.

I recommend beg/borrow/stealing Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Orks. They are the armies with (imo) the most possibilities for competitive lists. Then decide on who's fluff you like the best! Don't dismiss orks out of hand because of fantasy orcs are dull (again, imo). They are good and very competitive, plus they're fun to play and put together.

My 2 copper.

Orks are very powerful. Strong in cc by pure weight of attacks, with a lot of very powerful attacks btw, and though they can't hit the broadside of an aquarium, there are a lot of them! Something gotta hit!

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:Hey man, hoping to help...

Dont grab SW for melee, they are a very defensive army with some lots of fire support. They can stand melee to defend, but lack the real strenght on it. Besides, they fluff is awesome, i just dont like the lack of jump packs

So they dont hit hard, even with 2 attacks on the charge? since they dont have an option for jumpacks what do they use for speed?

PS: wolves own one of the most usefull psychic powers on the game: Jaws of the Wolf

.

what does it do?

Legally, unless we want to suffer horrific death via GW attack pandas, we cannot tell you exactly what it does.

We can say that big slow things hate jotww though.

WeeDawgNYC wrote:

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:Hey man, hoping to help...

Dont grab SW for melee, they are a very defensive army with some lots of fire support. They can stand melee to defend, but lack the real strenght on it. Besides, they fluff is awesome, i just dont like the lack of jump packs

So they dont hit hard, even with 2 attacks on the charge? since they dont have an option for jumpacks what do they use for speed?

Space Wolves can hit very hard. Thunderwolf Cavalry is kind of a ridiculous unit in concept, but highly mobile, durable, and hits like a truck. Space Wolves also DO have access to jump packs. Their fluff has them not being overly fond of them though. Their jump Marines aren't as good as their BA or SW counterparts however.

I'm not sure why one of the above posters listed Space Wolves as less choppy than vanilla Marines, as that certainly doesn't seem to be the case. Space Wolf Tacticals are better in CC than their vanilla counterparts. Space Wolves also have the Counter Attack special rule, so getting the charge isn't nearly as important for them as it is for other armies. And of course there's the Thunderwolf Cavalry which, for my money, might just be best assault unit available to Space Marines.

Blood Angels need to be on the charge to get the most out of their choppy, buffed by their chaplains. They have one monster but arguably vulnerable CC special character, and a few force multiplier special characters; their vanilla HQ options are somewhat lacking. They're fast, and deadly on the charge. Space Wolves are just as comfortable being charged as charging in most cases, and have arguably the best troops in the game - they can shoot well and they can do CC well. They can also make ridiculously deadly non-special HQ units with an insane amount of customization available. Their psykers are incredible, and as a hammer unit, Thunderwolf Cavalry are amazingly good.

BA HQ's are actually very strong, just throw them in the right unit!

My librarian gives my termies preferred enemy and they are already buffed by a S.Priest. My reclusiarch (supa-chappie) goes with my DC for more OMGWTFBBQPWNage. Nothing is more depressing to your opponent then you rerolling just about everything.

xxBlazinGhostxx wrote:BA HQ's are actually very strong, just throw them in the right unit!

My librarian gives my termies preferred enemy and they are already buffed by a S.Priest. My reclusiarch (supa-chappie) goes with my DC for more OMGWTFBBQPWNage. Nothing is more depressing to your opponent then you rerolling just about everything.

I more meant strong on an individual level. BA non-SC HQs are force multipliers, except for the Captain, who no one takes due to weak wargear.

Earlier you were asking about which is the most resilient, and just know that if it's in power armor, your enemy will have a hard time killing them.

WeeDawgNYC wrote:

PS: wolves own one of the most usefull psychic powers on the game: Jaws of the Wolf

.

what does it do?

like Blazing said we can't tell you exactly, but i can tell you this.


you know the new Lore of Death power, Purple sun?

it does something similer, but more destructive.

Vanilla marines are much more competitive than Chaos. The vanilla book has several different potent builds, and different strengths/weaknesses compared to the other modern MEQ books, the SW and BA.

I think that SW and BA generally edge out the vanilla SMs for overall effectiveness, but again it depends largely on what build you're going for. If you like bikes, vanilla can do great all-bike armies.

Ahh JotWW possibly the power with the most chance for hilarity and the best way to lose friends... still funny though
Also i'm not sure if others have said but SW are a short ranged army that does well in assaults it is more choppy but can be much more than that if used correctly.

purplefood wrote:Ahh JotWW possibly the power with the most chance for hilarity and the best way to lose friends... still funny though
Also i'm not sure if others have said but SW are a short ranged army that does well in assaults it is more choppy but can be much more than that if used correctly.

Actually, for about half of this thread, people were saying that SW are worse at assault than vanilla SM.

Meh not what i have found personally in most cases but there are occasions but i think Vanilla wins out because of the general versatility which is nice and shiny.

Seaward wrote:

purplefood wrote:Ahh JotWW possibly the power with the most chance for hilarity and the best way to lose friends... still funny though
Also i'm not sure if others have said but SW are a short ranged army that does well in assaults it is more choppy but can be much more than that if used correctly.

Actually, for about half of this thread, people were saying that SW are worse at assault than vanilla SM.

Vanilla SM have cheap TH terminators, which is definitely a strength.

However, GH squads with a wolf standard are leagues better than tactical marines at CC.

willydstyle wrote:

Seaward wrote:

purplefood wrote:Ahh JotWW possibly the power with the most chance for hilarity and the best way to lose friends... still funny though
Also i'm not sure if others have said but SW are a short ranged army that does well in assaults it is more choppy but can be much more than that if used correctly.

Actually, for about half of this thread, people were saying that SW are worse at assault than vanilla SM.

Vanilla SM have cheap TH terminators, which is definitely a strength.

However, GH squads with a wolf standard are leagues better than tactical marines at CC.

It's a strength, sure, but it's a well-known strength and really vanilla's only assault strength. It's also a strength that's entirely dependent on a Land Raider. Honestly, I'd take Thunderwolf Cavalry any day - so I guess it's good that I went Space Wolves.

And as you rightly pointed out, GH squads aren't exactly slouches in CC, meaning that an assault-oriented SW army can have multiple good support assault units - that can also shoot as well as standard Tacticals - assisting their hammer unit, rather than the vanilla option of just having one hammer unit either going off on its own or playing counterpunch for a gunline.