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So I haven't played much of 5th edition at all, but I just pulled my IG out of the closet and I'm hoping to get back into the swing of things soon.

Checking out Dakka and other spots on the web, the power blob seems like something I want to run with- I've always loved the human wave aspect of the guard, not to mention the tar-pitting aspect of the power blob.

Now, having come up predominantly in 3rd and 4th, I've always subscribed to the "always take a special and a heavy in your squad" maxim. Clearly, for the blob, that's not always going to be optimal given how it runs, right?

What sort of special(or maybe heavy?) weapons should I consider for the infantry squads in the blob? I'm planning on running 30-50 troopers, plus the Commissar. All sarges will have PW. I'm planning on also running another infantry platoon as a firebase.

What works for you guys?

Whether you take heavy or special weapons is determined by what you want the blob to be doing.

As for heavy weapons, use them if you want to be a backfield blob, but I wouldn't really recommend this myself as you're already spending so much on the power weapons, spending even more is going to make them even more expensive. Also, you're always going to be wasting points with the squad as sitting back and shooting heavy weapons and charging in to use power weapons are fundamantally at odds.

As for special weapons, they're obviously a better choice as they're cheaper and fit the M.O. of power weapons better. That said, you have to be careful with special weapons. The last thing you want to do is shoot your opponent only to shoot your opponent out of assault range.

When I first started using them, I took 20-man blobs with a grenade launcher and a flamer. After roughly 10 games wherein I fired one grenade launcher once against a tightly packed group of enemies and it did basically nothing, I took them out. I'm starting to have the same doubts with flamers. It's pretty likely that the power blob of the future for me will have neither heavy nor special weapons, but just power swords.

I mean, why bother taking guns at all if you're not going to shoot them?

Ailaros wrote:
I mean, why bother taking guns at all if you're not going to shoot them?

That's essentially what I'm thinking. I don't like the idea of a backfield blob, unless for some reason, I'm anticipating a large assaulty outflank by the enemy. I much prefer providing HW fire support in smaller units.

I've also been toying with the idea of running them with Al'rahem, for that shock of a huge unit outflanking. That's more or less what you do, right?

Ok, this is what you do, but as many heavy weapons as you can! why? i'll tell you in a moment... but i'd go for mortars, because they are cheap and fun! And several of them will be hilarious.

So, Heavy waepon teams have a large base, so put those teams at the from and flanks of your unit. When you charge/get charged the heavy weapons teams will be in contact with the enemy.
To work out who is in combat and able to attack you count all of your guardsmen within 2" of a freindly model in base contact with the enemy.
Those larger bases will drag more of your men into the fight so to speak.

Veritek83 wrote:

Ailaros wrote:
I mean, why bother taking guns at all if you're not going to shoot them?

That's essentially what I'm thinking. I don't like the idea of a backfield blob, unless for some reason, I'm anticipating a large assaulty outflank by the enemy. I much prefer providing HW fire support in smaller units.

I've also been toying with the idea of running them with Al'rahem, for that shock of a huge unit outflanking. That's more or less what you do, right?

right

And yes, the heavy weapon thing to get more guys in is true, but if you're running 20-dude squads, you won't have much trouble getting your guys into the fray.

Plus, the damage that a power blob does comes from its power weapons. The stragglers trying to rush forward to get some bayonet stabs in are little more than abblative.

Depends on the size of the blob unit in question... and how spread out the squad is, of facing the prospect on charges on 2 flanks your PW would be spread out and that extra 'almost' inch of pile-ins could help alot.

Either way, a few mortars won't hurt ponts wise and could mean all the difference (how many times have you won or lost a combat by 1?)

how many times have I won or lost combat by one? I don't pay attention, as my blobs are stubborn...

Backfield blobs are cool. I really like taking 9+ lascannons for a single choice

I guess if you take PW's, special weapon squads would be better, since they tend to be closer ranged.

Samus_aran115 wrote:Backfield blobs are cool. I really like taking 9+ lascannons for a single choice

I guess if you take PW's, special weapon squads would be better, since they tend to be closer ranged.

Shame only 5 lascannons can have a boat load of meat shields

I have used the blob as both a firebase blob, as well as part of Capt Sidewinder's (my version of capt alrahem) outflanking unit.....

As a firebase blob, I have used it with and without a commissar and PW...without a commissar the blob is babysitted by the CCS with a regimental standard with an AC in a chimera...but mind you I do NOT blob the squads all the time, but rather depending on the situation. GL and AC are the qeapons of choice for me.

If I get a commissar and PW, then the squads WILL be blobbed for sure, and this frees up my CCS as I will not then take the regimental standard, and the CCS becomes mobile and accompanies my mech component. Even as part of the outflanking platoon, I ALWAYS get HW (ACs are my favorites) as the weapon is cheap enough, and there will be times you will need the range. With the "like the wind" order, you can stay still in the move phase, then use the order to shoot all your weapons, then you get the free d6 movement.....

I run a 20-man combined PIS w/ 2 x GL, 2 x ACs and a Commisar to keep on the backfield and hold objectives. The rest of my army is fully mechanised (in 1750+ games) so it fits in well as it allows the rest of my army to do what it needs to do whilst providing adequate fire support and keeping my home objective safe and secure.

Obviously I eschew power weapons in my combined PIS because there's simply no need for them, assaulting isn't the reason I brought them along. However, if assaulting IS what you want to do then I'd probably suggest not bothering with special/heavy weapons at all and focus purely upon power weapons to get the job done.

The common consensus with IG players is that special/heavy weapons are so cheap in PIS that there's really no reason not to take them, as they add a certain amount of lethality to an otherwise very average unit. However, you are using you PIS as ablative wounds for the power weapon Sergeants/Commisars, so there's really no need to spend any extra points on them, as they won't be using their special weapons in assault.

My advice? Leave them w/out specials, unless you want to throw the odd meltagun to pop a transport and then charge the contents of course, but really you should be relying upon other units to do the majority of your AT work anyway...

L. Wrex

Right, if you're doing a non-power blob that chills out in the backfield, then heavy weapons are probably exactly what you're looking for. Of course, you probably don't want power weapons for them unless you've got a lot of points to throw around (which is unlikely if you're playing infantry).

I'd like to note as well that, as lycaeus mentions, plain PISs are supremely worthless. However, I'd note that this means that you should upgrade them with special weapons or heavy weapons OR power weapons. If you have any one of those three, you're making them sufficiently effective. Having two is borderline (as there will probably be conflicts), and having three is a rather poor idea as you're spending a fair number of points for something always in conflict.

So yeah, perhaps a flamer here or meltagun there, but it's not required. Also, meltabombs are decent for squads which are assaulting anyways, as they do nearly the same thing for half the price, especially if you're bringing priests to give them rerolls.

What's the ideal size for a IG power blob? I primarily intend them to tarpit and not provide a gunline.

a Power blob squad, i'd at least put "Assault" special weapons. for the 5 or 10 points per squad i wouldn't have a problem spending it.
for the backfield blob, i'd go with heavy and specials. currently i personally am not using PCS/PIS in my list though.

You've got to be careful with shooting assault weapons, though. A flamer may only cost 5 points, but it also runs the risk of leaving your blob a half inch out of assault range. I've been bringing flamers for awhile now and I've gotten into flamer range on several occasions, but haven't fired them out of fear of not getting into assault.

as for the size, I've only ever run 20 (well, 21 with the commissar, 22 with the priest). Yeah, I lose blobs now and again, but not frequently enough for me to feel the need to bump them to 30 (especially since I often have another one nearby). Usually they get mauled pretty badly, though, so if my opponents start specializing to take down blobs I'm probably going to have to up them to 30. I can't imagine more than 30 being necessary, though (indeed, it would probably be pretty unwieldy).

I like to equip my blob squads with Lascannon. Sometimes if I have the points then Ill pay for grenade launchers, or the odd meltagun to death or glory tanks that get too close.

The Lascannons make that 30 man squad deal quite a lot of damage at range. So it forces the enemy to close in... the 3 lascannons are then backed up by the 3 sarges and the commissar with PW's. So, if the enemy wants to silence the lascannon, if he shoots the squad, its a waste of points, and if he charges the squad, its the deathblob... All in all this squad comes it at about 300pts, and its not at all bad.

Cheers!

Definitely not the most efficient, but I like the 30 man uber squads with a Commisar to make the orders a bit easier... 3 HW teams backed up by the 20 or so guys to cheer them on more or less :-) If I have the points, then decent ranged special weapons and then power weapons... Rarely have those extra points for the PW's, but it is a decent threat... Since I also play some more "assault" types armies (BA/wolves), these are the things I'd be a big more concerned about crashing into them...

I don't use Back-field Blobs, so no help there from me.

I do use Power Blobs though. I prefer to give them Melta Guns.
They will be moving forwards anyway so the range isn't too big an issue.
The Melta Gun will help them take out the biggest threat to them; Dreadnoughts.
The Melta Gun have a chance of stopping even the biggest of vehicles (barring the Mono, but I digress).

If I have the points to spare I will give them Mortars too.
This is not for reasons of firepower, but rather to help me get as many men into close combat as possible.
I run my blobs 40-strong and I find that I often have problems getting enough into CC and the big heavy weapon bases helps immensely there.
Be advised that this is somewhat "gamey".

Im not seeing why the more high powered special weapons are being thought about here. Ailaros taught me about blobs when I started guard, and over the games I have come to the conclusion that if you have a dreadnought or carnifex bearing down upon your helpless blob, a couple plasma guns and melta guns are going to go a long way (with the help of a bring it down order) to removing that threat, or at least damaging it.

But bad things happen to blobs, so I guess the less upgrades the better.

That really is what IG is all about. No sponsons, No upgrades, just SPAM everything.

In a perfect world you would simpley field 3 30 man blob squads with nothing but 4 power weapons in each (and a commissar of course)

when i field blobs i normally field 30man blobs with power weapons. if i have the points or i feel the need i will take a couple heavy weapon squads to support them but do not put them into the squads. occasionally ill put in a flamer or melta or two but not always. when i take heavy weapon squads normally a morter squad and a las cannon squad. the rest of my army is mech so this allows me to take those squads normally to support my mech anyways.


stupid question about blobs.
ok we take the commisar to make the squad stubern get that but when we fail a moral test using the commisars leadership the commisar caps the highest leadership model. a sargeant with power weapon is this right?

That is correct, vader, the commissar kills a power weapon every time he fails his LD roll. I guess he just doesn't like having non-coms around to make fun of him when he screws up.

I personally think that blobs should have melta guns. With Bring It Down they can kill AV10-12 pretty reliably even at 12", and it allows them to have a good chance to explode a transport to assault the guys inside. It also makes them highly resistant to tank shock, and gives them a couple shots to "soften up" a Tyranid Monstrous Creature before you assault them.

Yeah, commissars shoot your "special weapon" (power weapon sergeant), but I've had that happen so infrequently, that it hasn't bothered me. It's sort of like plasma burns, you just sort of have to expect that they'll happen now and again. In this case, though, it happens about half as often (and only when you take morale checks).

I can attest to the power of 30 man blob squads as I recently played a game against BA. My blob got assaulted by that BA unit that can charge after DSing. At the end of 2 turns of combat I still had my unit with my commissar, Alrahem, the Priest, and 4 guardsmen left. The BA dedicated assault unit got wiped to a man.

Unfortunately the next turn brought around the Sanguinor

Seconding the melta guns supporters! I also agree with what Ailaros said about not shooting before assault - I was able to stop a Space Wolves player from assaulting me in a game today when he made this mistake. Meltaguns, though, are less to shoot before assaulting (although in some situations they could kill a transport and allow you to assault the passengers - this is unlikely against opponents who know how to place their models) and more to protect the squad from walkers and tank shocks, or just kill things they'd otherwise be useless against.

I would not put heavy weapons teams in a power blob - you want the blob to go out and take objectives, assault enemies before they get close to your shooters, etc. I think that as long as your sergeants are up at the front of the squad, the big bases aren't really needed to get men into 2" combat range.

Commissars are obviously mandatory in power blobs - here's a question for the internet: are they a good idea in shooty blobs? Obviously they can stop a 30 man unit being swept in a simple assault, but if your entire army is based around infantry platoons, they start to get expensive! Is it better to protect all blobs with commissars, or to rely on positioning, tactics and possibly a regimental standard?

It depends, I suppose on what you want the squads to do. If you want to spend 100 points to have some dudes on an objective (to screen another squad that's holding an objective, for example), then no, but if you want to spend points for some dudes to HOLD an objective, then there really isn't much doing without stubborn.

You can always give out stubborn through other means (like chenkov), but these are more expensive unless you've got a couple of shooty squads around to give it to, and even then, it's cost savings is marginal.

Commissar costs add up, but both stubborn AND morale rerolls are definitely worth the price, especially given how expensive alternatives can be (and not just in points). You don't always have to give them the power weapon, but I think I'd always give a commissar to every squad where keeping them on the field after casualties is important (compared to SWSs who just need to do damage and then it doesn't matter, or conscripts who are just a wrapper for other things).

In a defence blob I would just take heavy weapons and perhaps a few meltaguns to counter tank shock, but no powerweapons.

In an assault blob I would take of course powerweapons and (important imho) meltaguns.

Why meltaguns? There is many mech out there and a s3 blob is helpless there so if you want to get the charge, you have to open those tanks. Open transport -> charging unit inside. 1 turn 2 units. Thats a bodycount...

Okay, I'm understanding why you guys want a blob to do a bunch of dirty work but blast templates are abundant nowadays. This large of a unit is unlikely to make it across the board and at 200 points for a blob movin 6 inches a turn just for a meltagun shot or two, also having to throw your ccs into the fray, you are throwing a lotta points into maybe a transport kill and the unit inside that may just avoid your assault through th back or overpower you in nth by making only part of that blob able to attack.

Also, this unit is huge. It is just blocking your other stuff from moving. And if you sport 2 blobs, you better be sporting some artillery.

I think their best left in the backfield to hold objectives and to lay down some heavy weapons at the same time.

I've been taking Meltaguns, but am starting to reconsider. I've liked them as a threat, but really, how much are they going to do with two BS 3 shots?

A meltabomb does the same thing for half the cost, if terms of being tank shocked. And, as bounty-hunt-the-elderly mentioned, the likelihood of opening a transport and also charging is pretty unlikely if they've got decent ability to disembark.

I haven't run the math, but I'm very certain that Krak Grenades have a better chance of opening most vehicles than a couple meltaguns, for the same points. Also, Krak Grenades would be more useful in the Dreadnought situation.

Melta guns in a power blob serve as a psycological way to defend your blob from walkers/ tanks when slogging accross the board. With Al Rahem, you have a shot at destroying something if your opponent leaves a tank too close to the table edge, but i'd be surprised if you get more than one turn of shooting out of it.

Nenya97 wrote:Okay, I'm understanding why you guys want a blob to do a bunch of dirty work but blast templates are abundant nowadays. This large of a unit is unlikely to make it across the board and at 200 points for a blob movin 6 inches a turn just for a meltagun shot or two,

Firstly, you're already charging anyways.

Secondly, you're moving more like 12", not 6" (go go go is a must with blob rushes)

Thirdly, spacing is key. You can SERIOUSLY compromise your opponent's ability to do damage with blast and template weapons by how you space your troops. For example, a recent game started out like this:



Note how things are spaced far enough apart that a small blast template is only going to hit one dude at a time. Anyways, after that, my guys wound up in big circles to mitigate the damage of large blast weapons:



This game, despite having a few pieces of large pie throwers and several flamers I only lost a handful of guys to these weapons (mostly because I was playing stupid). Played right, it doesn't really matter if they bring these kinds of weapons or not.

As for the meltagun thing, I'm of mixed feeling myself. On the one hand, a couple of meltaguns aren't likely to do a whole lot, and they're twice as expensive as meltabombs. On the other hand, you're more likely to actually use them, they're better against walkers, and they're AP1.

I've traditionally laced my power blobs with meltabombs to take the fullest advantage of priest rerolls, but if I didn't have them, I'd be more inclined to take meltaguns.