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Wondering if I can pick out a model thats in a transport with boom of mutation? Not sure about it, so i thought id ask what other people think.

The rule states to pick any one model. no line of sight required, and roll to hit.

Psychic powers cannot be used on models in a transport unless the psyker is in the transport as well.

iirc

edit:
1st question in main rulebook FAQ.

kirsanth wrote:Psychic powers cannot be used on models in a transport unless the psyker is in the transport as well.

iirc

edit:
1st question in main rulebook FAQ.

Correct.

RaW it's perfectly fine to try and attack a model inside a transport. What happens after has no RaW however.

As stated though, Games Workshop suggest you house rule it to not allow it to affect models inside transports.

isnt it technically not a psyhic power though?

I mean it says it on the top of the page in the codex.

-note these attacks are not psychic powers.

italiaplaya wrote:isnt it technically not a psyhic power though?

I mean it says it on the top of the page in the codex.

-note these attacks are not psychic powers.

Aaaaah.

I failread that, thought you were talking about Gift of Chaos (the CSM version. Same rule, but a Psi Powah).

In this case, yes, by all means feel free to Boon away!

GW has not made any House Rules regarding this, so feel free to Omnomnomnom!

Ooops, knew I missed something--I read "Gift of Chaos", not "Boon of Mutation".

Ranged weapons cannot target embarked models, though? And Boon is treated as one.

Gwar! wrote:

italiaplaya wrote:isnt it technically not a psyhic power though?

I mean it says it on the top of the page in the codex.

-note these attacks are not psychic powers.

Aaaaah.

I failread that, thought you were talking about Gift of Chaos (the CSM version. Same rule, but a Psi Powah).

In this case, yes, by all means feel free to Boon away!

GW has not made any House Rules regarding this, so feel free to Omnomnomnom!

haha looks like i'll be "sniping" elder characters out of there damn transport.

kirsanth wrote:Ooops, knew I missed something--I read "Gift of Chaos", not "Boon of Mutation".

Ranged weapons cannot target embarked models, though? And Boon is treated as one.

"Pick any one enemy model (no LOS required) and roll to hit."

No targeting!

I read that part too, but "Boon of Mutation is a ranged weapon" is what I was looking at to say it counts as a ranged weapon. . . .

Gwar! wrote:

kirsanth wrote:Ooops, knew I missed something--I read "Gift of Chaos", not "Boon of Mutation".

Ranged weapons cannot target embarked models, though? And Boon is treated as one.

"Pick any one enemy model (no LOS required) and roll to hit."

No targeting!

It does go on to say though,

If a hit is scored and the target is found to be within 6' of the daemon the target must immediately take a toughness test...

Im starting to think i cant now.

Yea, "target" is used repeatedly, LOS lacking does not mean target is lacking.

It's similar to DoM's spirit leech that targets units. Many interpreted that it worked on units in vehicles because the rules tell you how to measure to an embarked unit. Boon is different in that it tells you to target a model and there's no way to target an embarked model.

Arschbombe wrote:It's similar to DoM's spirit leech that targets units. Many interpreted that it worked on units in vehicles because the rules tell you how to measure to an embarked unit. Boon is different in that it tells you to target a model and there's no way to target an embarked model.

It doesn't though.

Neither The Doom nor BoM have the requirement to Target (which is a specific thing in the rules) anything:
"Pick any one enemy model (no LOS required) and roll to hit."

"At the beginning of every Shooting phase, including the foe's, every non-vehicle enemy unit within 6" of the Doom of Malan'tai must take a Leadership test on 3D6. If the test is failed the unit suffers a single wound for each point they failed by, with no armour saves allowed."

No mention of target at all in Dooms rule.

As I said, RaW, it's fine. GW does seem to have a theme of House Ruling these abilities to ignore the RaW however, so feel free to play it that way if you so wish (as well as the caveat that YMDC for some unknowable reason considers the FAQ hard rules, so take that how you will! )

Gwar! wrote:No mention of target at all in Dooms rule.

There is in BoM, though. . . and it is a ranged weapon that does not need LOS.

"Boon of Mutation is a ranged weapon"--the gifts "are equivalent to the weapons and other wargear used by mere mortals"

Yes, a target is "picked" but is thereafter the "target" for BoM.


Weird.

Gwar! wrote:Neither The Doom nor BoM have the requirement to Target (which is a specific thing in the rules) anything:
"Pick any one enemy model (no LOS required) and roll to hit."

The distinction I was trying to highlight was between unit and model. For the Doom, a unit in a transport can be affected because we know how to measure to embarked units, but there's no way to measure to an embarked model since the model isn't on the table.

Games Workshop no Proofread!
Games Workshop no Proofread!
Games Workshop no Proofread!

GW: Awww maaaaan!

Eh, We are all used to it by now methinks!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Arschbombe wrote:

Gwar! wrote:Neither The Doom nor BoM have the requirement to Target (which is a specific thing in the rules) anything:
"Pick any one enemy model (no LOS required) and roll to hit."

The distinction I was trying to highlight was between unit and model. For the Doom, a unit in a transport can be affected because we know how to measure to embarked units, but there's no way to measure to an embarked model since the model isn't on the table.

And here is where I disagree. If you can measure range to a unit, you must therefore be able to measure range to the models within the unit, because if you couldn't, then you wouldn't be able to measure to the unit.

Your interpretation also stops KFFs and Blud Challices (filled with Blud to give Blud to the Blud Angles!) from working from transports.

so there's no real "answer"?

italiaplaya wrote:so there's no real "answer"?

I think that is more true than it should be.

I guess i'll just play it as i cant.

Nope, def cant.

Gwar; I have a question with your assertiuon that if the unit is within Range of Boon of mutation(because their transport is within range); how do you determine that the individual model targeted is the model in range?

I mean sure if the entire transport is in completely in range, then yes every model in the unit is in range so snipe away; also a unit of 1 model inside the transport would similarly be targetable no matter how much of the transport is within the range.

But if the transport is just barely in range we have no way of determining that the specific model being targeted(BoM targets models, not units; and that model is the one that turns into a chaos spawn) is one of the models that would be in range.

Kommissar Kel wrote:Gwar; I have a question with your assertiuon that if the unit is within Range of Boon of mutation(because their transport is within range); how do you determine that the individual model targeted is the model in range?

I mean sure if the entire transport is in completely in range, then yes every model in the unit is in range so snipe away; also a unit of 1 model inside the transport would similarly be targetable no matter how much of the transport is within the range.

But if the transport is just barely in range we have no way of determining that the specific model being targeted(BoM targets models, not units; and that model is the one that turns into a chaos spawn) is one of the models that would be in range.

All ranges to embarked units are to the hull. An attached character is part of the unit, and thus measured in the same manner.

Or did you plan to stop measuring effect radii of embarked characters from all points on the hull?

The much bigger issue is that if boon of mutation succeeds you have created a situation where there are two different units inside a transport which is in violation of the rules.

Allowing something which will break a rule is a generally not a good idea.

For that reason alone I would not allow it.

I believe that Boon of Mutation does not force you to place a new unit, but rather it is an option provided you have the models for it.

I'd still say it's not able to target units inside vehicles simply because the gifts act like the weapons found in a generic different army.

Correct, placing the model is optional, even if you do have one available.

Hmmm.

Scott-S6 wrote:Correct, placing the model is optional, even if you do have one available.

Hmmm.

Even so if i was able to do it. The spawn would end up out of the transport if it worked. 1" away from it. Just like when a greater daemon pops a champ in the chaos codex.

italiaplaya wrote:The spawn would end up out of the transport if it worked. 1" away from it.

The affected model is in base contact with the transport? I do not think that is backed up, unless I missed it too.

kirsanth wrote:

italiaplaya wrote:The spawn would end up out of the transport if it worked. 1" away from it.

The affected model is in base contact with the transport? I do not think that is backed up, unless I missed it too.

It says that the affected model if in base contact would move 1 in" away from enemy units, and out of base contact. (however its talking about if the models were to be base to base contact in a assault)

Of course this is assuming i could. And there is no real answer, so i rather play it as i couldnt.

italiaplaya wrote:And there is no real answer, so i rather play it as i couldnt.

Just making sure I didn't miss something--it can get awkward to claim embarked models are in base contact with their transport.

Regardless, I always support playing the weaker side of confusing issues.

kirsanth wrote:

italiaplaya wrote:And there is no real answer, so i rather play it as i couldnt.

Just making sure I didn't miss something--it can get awkward to claim embarked models are in base contact with their transport.

Regardless, I always support playing the weaker side of confusing issues.

Ah i see what your saying now. Well i would assume being embarked would count as being in base contact. Or else if i remember correctly the Big meks tool bag thing wouldnt work on a vehicle when the model is embarked in its transport either.