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Good day, well like many others I am starting an army of the Children of Ulthuan. This list shows what models I have right now and what I can put out. Unfortunately I do not have a good count as a for normal Prince or Nobel other than what I have on the Girffon. I hope to get the plastic noble box set and with the extra parts I have now, make a couple of Nobles that will be cheap.
For my lore, I am going with High Magic.
Here is the list. My other troops include another 15 man force of sea guard/spearmen, 20 archers, and a bolt thrower. When I was watching some games today, I heard a somewhat common theme of taking full commands. I figure I will play a couple of games with commands and see what I get. If I am not to impressed, then I will take out the commands and go from there. Same with the Sea Guard vs. Spearmen. I will get a couple of games with each and decide who I like better.
As for tactics, the PG and the Sea Guard form a block, the Reavers scout out ahead and take targets of opportunity, the Dragon Princes, Chariot and Prince on the Griffin, will work together to take out units. As I am new to magic I am not sure what to use the mage with. Suggestions are welcome. The Sword Masters with their magical attacks will go for enemy troops that make it to the line.

Lords
Prince with Dragon Armour, Shield, Lance, Guardian Phoenix
Griffin
Total 383

Heros
Mage with Sliver Wand,Annnulian Crystal
Total 150

Core
Sea Guard
15 Sea Guard
Shields
Full Command
Total 220x2

Special
10 Phoenix Guard
Full Command
Total 180

15 Sword masters
Full Command
Amulet of Light
Total 270

10 Dragon Princes
Full Command
Total 350

Lion Chariot
140

Ellyrian Reavers
5 Reavers
Bows
Total 105

Here is a second List that is magic heavy, replacing the Prince with a Level 4 Archmage. Also the level 1 mage is now a level 2

Archmage
Level 4 Mage with Seerstaff of Saphery, Jewel of the Dusk,
305

Heros
Level 2 Mage with Sliver Wand,Annnulian Crystal
Total 185

Core
Sea Guard
15 Sea Guard
Shields
Full Command
Total 220x2

Special
10 Phoenix Guard
Full Command
Total 180

15 Sword masters
Full Command
Amulet of Light
Total 270

10 Dragon Princes
Full Command
Banner of Arcane Protection
Total 375

Lion Chariot
140

Ellyrian Reavers
5 Reavers
Bows
Total 105

I would advise you remove the Dragon princes and bolster the PG. 10 of them is not enough for how good they are have at least 15-20. Use the rest of the points for upgrading your magic.

Also be aware that your combat general is most likely to die quickly if you vs an opponent that knows what he is doing so it would be better to cut down the points on his. Personally I think you should make a Lv4 mounted mage your general

A do like the second list better. But I agree with syanticraven. You're better off dropping the dragon princes and boosting not only your PG but also your seaguard units. Pretty sure you could easily put them all up to 20 models strong that way..

Apart from that it doesn't look too bad

I will look into pushing the size of the phoenix guard, but out of curiosity, why drop the Dragon Princes? I ask because I love the models and I bought and made 10 of the guys so I would hate not to use them.

Cavalry, especially knights, are both expensive and a bit nerfed in this edition with a good chance of always getting hit backed and sticking into combat for a few rounds. Not good for T3 elves

Interesting, I was hoping that ASF, the high I, and the lances would make combat a little better for the Dragon Princes, I should have a game tomorrow against a bret player, so I can not change the models that I have today, but I will keep that in mind.

guardpiper wrote:Interesting, I was hoping that ASF, the high I, and the lances would make combat a little better for the Dragon Princes, I should have a game tomorrow against a bret player, so I can not change the models that I have today, but I will keep that in mind.

ASF, high I and the lances does make their charge dangerous but unlike last edition they can't demolish the first rank to avoid getting attacks back. I can see them in a more support role unless you can find points for a large enough unit. Yes they'll still do a ton of damage but they will also die fairly quickly at T3.

well going against bret, he'll suffer even more since he'll strike last. Still He'll try to get that ward save making his knights tougher especially with Lore of Life. Dont let him get the charge and your princes/elite infantry should stop his knights from dealing lance attacks, although they might still be in lance formation.

Well I can see your point, today I saw a game where a guy brought something like 6 or 8 segadons, against a wood elf list, and the elf was able eat the segs piecemeal. The intail charge was dangerous, but he did not support them and they got wounds, failed leadership and got caught. But I will see how list number two does. If we have time I might give list 1 a shot also. At the least I can put in a order for the noble box and get some more spearmen and fill out the ranks to 20 each.
But for the game I am thinking High magic for the lvl 2 and life or metal for the lvl 4.

Metal would be very deadly to bret armor although life is more versatile for protection against trebuchets and the like. Leaning towards metal though since the lifeblood of brets is knights, albeit with wards.

First off, thanks for the advice thus far, and keep it coming. Today I got my game in and I got my face beaten in. My opponent brought his dwarfs instead of his brets so my plan changed as I was dealing with a gun line now. Some thoughts and concerns.

Magic: His rune smiths pretty much destroyed my magic phase, helping to create a lot of dispell dice and me not rolling to well to get power dice. Plus he had an item that took one of my power dice and add it to his dispell pile. But I like how life and high magic work together. So I will keep trying with that. I might try High and Heavens some time soon. Also I am thinking of adding the banner of Sorcery somewhere.

Units: The Dragon Princes got shot up by the cannon and organ gun. They did not do much, so I do not think I have enough reason to drop them. Plus when the survivors did reach his lines, they did pretty well. If I end up dropping them, I think some White Lions will be replacing them.

The Lion Chariot, got the dwarf lines alone (the princes did not keep up with them), killed a good number of hammers, then got combat resd to death. Like the unit, but I need to support it better. So maybe another chariot is in order.

The Reavers, died to crossbow fire. I did place them all alone on a flank, so that did not help. Maybe if I use them to flank the chariot as fast cavalry, they should be able to keep up with it.

The sword masters, killed hammers then died to the return attacks, I like the models, I like the 2 attacks each, but I do not like the wet tissue paper strength of them, I think this will be another unit that will need to be supported.

The Phoneix guard, they look longbeards and ironbreakers head on and the unit of 10 elfs strong only lost 2 guys. They lasted the longest, killing longbeards and ironbreakers. I bought another box and now have a 20 elf strong unit.

The sea guard, did decently. I like how I can shoot and do combat with them. Still one game does not make or break them.

Well that was my first game, we are doing a 2500 game and he says he will bring his brets this time. So hopefully I will have a better showing for myself. Still it was a fun game. I need to think more about my placement of troops, and how I move the units, I miss the freedom of movement from 40k, but I just have to adjust.

A new list, 2500 points, hopefully incorporating some lessons learned from ya'll.
I am using the Prince on the griffion just to see what will happen.

Lords 740
Prince, Heavy Armour, Lance, Shield, Temakador's Gauntlet's
Griffion
Total: 395

Archamge, Lvl 4, Seerstaff of Saphery, Jewel of Dusk, Annulian Crystal
345
Is it better to give him a ward save or go with the added power dice via Jewel of Dusk?

Heroes
Mage, Lvl 2, Silver Wand
145

Core

15 Sea guard, full command
220x2

Special
20 Phoenix Guard, Full Command
330

15 Sword Masters, Full Command,
255

10 Dragon Princes
Full Command
350

Lion Chariot
140

Rare
Bolt Thrower
100
I have the model, so I will see what it does.

2500 on the dot. Comments are welcome, thanks for looking.

(Edited because I fail at math.)

Congratz on your first game, even if you lost. The PG are really good I would suggest you keep them in large numbers. and hope they do not get mortared to death lol.

For the Sword masters if you want to keep them I would also bolster their numbers aswell as you want them to survive for a long longer.

A level 1 mage in the first list just won't cut it. Take two level 2 mages, will help out a lot more. The one thing High Elves excel at is magic, so you need as much as you can get.
Also, if your up against a gunline again you need to include some great eagles to take out his warmachines faster.
Also, the investment into more PG is a must, as they really are awesome.
My advice on the chariot would be to change it to a Tiranoc one, and get two of them. Gives them both a little extra support.

kastellan wrote:A level 1 mage in the first list just won't cut it. Take two level 2 mages, will help out a lot more. The one thing High Elves excel at is magic, so you need as much as you can get.
Also, if your up against a gunline again you need to include some great eagles to take out his warmachines faster.
Also, the investment into more PG is a must, as they really are awesome.
My advice on the chariot would be to change it to a Tiranoc one, and get two of them. Gives them both a little extra support.

For a 2500 pt battle it is worth getting Telcis instead of your lv4.
But as you say for his orginal list he should have 2 mages at a minimum of level 2. I think the banner of sorcerrey would help him a lot as well.

And I think earlier he was suggested to drop the Dragon prices to bolster the PG and get eagles. But As it is new I suppose he just needs to get a feel for what units he likes and can use best. But Kastellans suggestions are quite good, do think about them

I also suggest after you try out your Prince that you drop his griffion and throw him in with the unit of PG or sword masters.

Thank you lol.

I will see how the Princes do againts the Brets in my next game. I know the advice is sound, but considering I have the models, I would hate not using them. As for the eagles, I will need to find some decent ones, as I am not to impressed with the GW models. So I will look into them.
As for named characters, I prefer not to use them. When I get my noble boxes, I will make some cheap nobles with great weapons and BSB.

Fair enough ma man, all the best.

Ah sorry to hear about the dwarves. Its their strong point to block most of the magic in the magic phrase and they come with any warmachine in the rulebook and a dakka filled organ gun.

For eagles though expensive I think, Gamezone has some interesting ones

http://www.gamezoneminiatures.de/product_info.php/info/p454_Great-Eagle-II.html
http://www.gamezoneminiatures.de/product_info.php/info/p444_Great-Eagle-I.html
http://www.gamezoneminiatures.de/product_info.php/info/p445_Great-Eagle-III.html

Well I did not play the bret player as, I went to Florida instead. But I have managed to get some work done on the army. Looking at the cost of the prince on a griffin and the cost of the the three main infantry elties of the Elfs, (white lions, PG, and Swordmasters) I realized that the griffin, while an great looking model, it is just too expensive as I can get a unit of 20 of the elites.
So here is a 2500 and 3000 points list for ya'll to tear up.

3000

Lords 553

Prince with great weapon, heavy armour, vambraces of defense
223
He will go with the PG to provide some extra punch for my anvil.

Arch Mage with Seerstaff, Jewel of the Dusk, Guardian Phoneix
LvL 4
330
Uses Life Lore to regen and heal my troops, dwellers when I want to try it.

Heros 323

Noble with great weapon, armour of protection
138
Will go with my white lions to give them some more punch

Mage with Silver wand, Annlian Crystal
Lvl 2
185
Uses High magic, attempts to give shield to someone every turn, the Crystal is to give me some more dispel dice.

Core 790

Sea Guard x20
shields
full command
2 units of 20
570

Sea Guard x15
shields
full command
My core, shoots at stuff and helps out, I like the idea of sea guard so I am still giving them some more games before I switch to spearmen and figure out which ones I like better.

Special 1455

Swordmasters x15
full command
Standard of sorcery
305
The glass hammer, the standard is there to help with the magic phase in getting me dice.

Phoenix Guard x20
full command
330
The anvil, with the prince in there they should stay and hopefully do some decent killing.

White Lions x20
full command
330
I love the models, (they look like they are wearing kilts, so I really like that). The noble goes hunting with them, I am thinking using the woodsmen rule to their advantage and take on smaller units depending on forests to help protect them.

Rare 200

Bolt Thrower x2
200
I have the models and I want to see what they can do, plus at the LFGS, I have heard good things about them. Eagles will be another unit I will switch out when I get some models for them.

So I have 139 points left, any ideas? I want to play with an infantry force I do not have a good way of transporting my cavalry models. So what says dakka?

Maybe give the noble a BSB for extra security?

guardpiper wrote:
Lords 553

Prince with great weapon, heavy armour, vambraces of defense
223
He will go with the PG to provide some extra punch for my anvil.

Is the Prince doing much more than providing +1 Ld and some extra choppiness to the list? If no, I think you'd be better served dropping him down to a Noble or using the points for more infantry. While the Prince is nice in that he can get better protective items over a Noble, his main benefit to the HE army is his Ld10. If you're looking more for an extra punch to a unit, save yourself the points and just get another noble. Princes cost about 2x a Noble and only provide ~1.5x the benefits. Given the expensiveness of our troops, you want to cut points wherever/whenever you can.

Arch Mage with Seerstaff, Jewel of the Dusk, Guardian Phoneix
LvL 4
330
Uses Life Lore to regen and heal my troops, dwellers when I want to try it.

You can't have more than one arcane Item. Drop your current item layout and give the AM the Silver Wand and Talisman of Preservation. Better Ward Save and a lvl4 with 5 spells will basically get to choose 1-2 spells by the nature of Spell Selection. Leaves you with points for an Enchanted Item or something else.

Noble with great weapon, armour of protection
138
Will go with my white lions to give them some more punch

Why not just the Armor of Caledor? In fact, you should follow Kenshin's advice and make this guy a BSB. With the AM taking Talisman of Preservation, you can move the Guardian Phoenix onto this guy.

Mage with Silver wand, Annlian Crystal
Lvl 2
185
Uses High magic, attempts to give shield to someone every turn, the Crystal is to give me some more dispel dice.

Again, can't have 2 arcane items. Drop the Silver Wand and just keep him with the Annulian Crystal. Should give you a decent Magic Defense.

Core 790

Sea Guard x20
shields
full command
570

Sea Guard x15
shields
full command
My core, shoots at stuff and helps out, I like the idea of sea guard so I am still giving them some more games before I switch to spearmen and figure out which ones I like better.

I'm not sure where you're getting these numbers for Core? the 35 LSG you have come no where near to the 790 points you listed.

Swordmasters x15
full command
Standard of sorcery
305
The glass hammer, the standard is there to help with the magic phase in getting me dice.

Phoenix Guard x20
full command
330
The anvil, with the prince in there they should stay and hopefully do some decent killing.

White Lions x20
full command
330
I love the models, (they look like they are wearing kilts, so I really like that). The noble goes hunting with them, I am thinking using the woodsmen rule to their advantage and take on smaller units depending on forests to help protect them.

If anyone's taking the Banner of sorcery, it should be the Phoenix Guard as they are the most survivable unit you have.

Rare 200

Bolt Thrower x2
200
I have the models and I want to see what they can do, plus at the LFGS, I have heard good things about them. Eagles will be another unit I will switch out when I get some models for them.

So I have 139 points left, any ideas? I want to play with an infantry force I do not have a good way of transporting my cavalry models. So what says dakka?

Still haven't been a fan of HE shooting in 8th, but, YMMV. If/when you can, get 2-3 Eagles. They'll do wonders for you.

I have fixed a couple of the legal stuff and taken in what was said.

Lords 330

Arch Mage with Seerstaff of Saphery, talisman of preservation,
LvL 4
335
Uses Life Lore to regen and heal my troops, dwellers when I want to try it. I have dropped the prince as he was meant for boosting the combat ability of the PG, so now he will be the BSB.

Heros 473

Noble with great weapon, armour of protection
138
Will go with my white lions to give them some more punch

Noble, BSB, Great Weapon Armour of Caledor, Guardian Phoneix
160
Goes with the PG, helps act as a stabilizer and adds to the overall combat attacks for the PG.

Mage with Annlian Crystal
Lvl 2
175
Uses High magic, attempts to give shield to someone every turn, the Crystal is to give me some more dispel dice.

Core 790

Sea Guard x20
shields
full command
2 units of 20
570

Sea Guard x15
shields
full command
My core, shoots at stuff and helps out, I like the idea of sea guard so I am still giving them some more games before I switch to spearmen and figure out which ones I like better.

Special 935

Swordmasters x15
full command
Standard of sorcery
255
The glass hammer, hopefully they will live to chop up some enemies.

Phoenix Guard x20
full command
banner of sorcery
380
The anvil, with the noble in there they should stay and hopefully do some decent killing, the standard is there to help with the magic phase in getting me dice.

White Lions x20
full command
330
I love the models, (they look like they are wearing kilts, so I really like that). The noble goes hunting with them, I am thinking using the woodsmen rule to their advantage and take on smaller units depending on forests to help protect them.

Rare 200

Bolt Thrower x2
200
I have the models and I want to see what they can do, plus at the LFGS, I have heard good things about them. Eagles will be another unit I will switch out when I get some models for them.


So by my count I have 267 points left, I am thinking, to spend the points, give one sea guard the Lion Banner for fun, and after that I am not sure, I have a lion chariot I can add. So once again thoughts are welcome. Maybe another noble but with the Reaver bow and put it in a Sea guard unit?

In other news, once I get my other prince box and some white primer, I will start painting my infantry. My theme is going to be green for the Armour and tan for the cloth as I hate painting white. Pictures will be up sometime in the near future Individual units will get special accent colors, I know the sword masters are getting red, the lions will get purple, and I am not sure what the PG will get. I figure this will help to make my elfs different.

I would suggest you use the points to beef up the PG to 25 and the SM to 20 to give them much more punch and staying power.

If you can afford it infest in 2 eagles.

Then think about Magic banners or that.

Okay, so I am going to get a game in this week, but after watching some more games as the FLGS, I now have two different list ideas. It seems that shooting is not a effective in fantasy as compared to 40k so with the second list, I replaced the the two units of sea guard with spearmen.

List 1

Lords 330

Arch Mage with Seerstaff of Saphery, talisman of preservation,
LvL 4
335
Uses Life Lore to regen and heal my troops, dwellers when I want to try it. I have dropped the prince as he was meant for boosting the combat ability of the PG, so now he will be the BSB.

Heros 473

Noble with great weapon, armour of protection
138
Will go with my white lions to give them some more punch

Noble, BSB, Great Weapon Armour of Caledor, Guardian Phoenix
160
Goes with the PG, helps act as a stabilizer and adds to the overall combat attacks for the PG.

Mage with Annlian Crystal
Lvl 2
175
Uses High magic, attempts to give shield to someone every turn, the Crystal is to give me some more dispel dice.

Core 790

Sea Guard x20
shields
full command
2 units of 20
570

Sea Guard x15
shields
full command
My core, shoots at stuff and helps out, I like the idea of sea guard so I am still giving them some more games before I switch to spearmen and figure out which ones I like better.

Special 1115

Swordmasters x20
full command
330
The glass hammer, hopefully they will live to chop up some enemies.

Phoenix Guard x25
full command
Banner of sorcery
455
The anvil, with the noble in there they should stay and hopefully do some decent killing, the standard is there to help with the magic phase in getting me dice.

White Lions x20
full command
330
I love the models, (they look like they are wearing kilts, so I really like that). The noble goes hunting with them, I am thinking using the woodsmen rule to their advantage and take on smaller units depending on forests to help protect them.

Shadow Warriors x5
Shadow Walker
92
Takes up the last points, they should be interesting to see what they can do.

Rare 200

Bolt Thrower x2
200
I have the models and I want to see what they can do, plus at the LFGS, I have heard good things about them. Eagles will be another unit I will switch out when I get some models for them.

Well I got some games against a wood elf player. Some thoughts from the the game.

The Good: The phoenix guard with a BSB where solid killed stuff and had a good showing for themselves. The Banner of Sorecry, is a nice standard and the annulian crystal are very nice for helping the magic phase. Swordmasters where able to slice and dice wild riders but I hate how fragile they are.

The Bad: . Three units sea guard do not do much other than get in each others way, so I will horde them next time. As an IG and Tau player, I am really shocked about how hard it is kill stuff with shooting in this game. Even with cover saves, it is still possible to have a solid or even a devastating shooting phase in 40k, with fantasy, I feel luck if I manage to kill 5 guys from a unit after shooting it with everything I have. Also shadow warriors are not a good unit to bring against the woodies. They might have their place against war machines, but not against wood elves.

The Ugly: I have to stop rolling snake eyes for my winds of magic. Second, I need not to roll a 10 then a 12 for my stubborn White Lions when they are in range of the Army BSB.

So for my next army list, this what I plan on doing. First is making another infantry list, second now that I have proper stowage, a list with some cavalry. These will be posted tomorrow, when I have some time.

Okay new lists time.

Lords
Teclis
475
Everyone at the shop has told me to run him, so I am, lets see if my horrible rolling can not affect him.

Heros
Noble, BSB, Banner of the World Dragon, Armour of Caledorr, Guardian Phoenix
He sits with the horde of Phoenix guard, the banner makes them immune to magic and teclis will bunker with the unit.
220

Noble, Armour of Protection, Great weapon
138
Same as the last noble, still goes with the white lions to give them more punch.

Troops 830 reach at least 750
Sea Guard x30
Full Command
415

Sea Guard x30
Full Command
415

Special 1190
Phoenix Guard x30
Full Command
Banner of Socery
530
Expensive? Yes, but in all three games, the Phoenix Guard regularly owned face, survived better and gave a good account for themselves.

White Lions x20
Full Command
330
With the hordes making the center of my line the lions will guard one flank. I just need to roll better with their leadership.

Swordmasters x20
Full Command
330
They guard the other flank.

Shadow Guard x5
Shadow Walker
92
Scouting around and being sneaky, I hope.

So I have 55 points left, any suggestions are welcome. Tomorrow, I will make a cavalry style list.

Thanks for looking

New list, comments are welcome.

Lords

Teclis 475
Goes with the Phoenix Guard horde, I am thinking of trying shadows with him, as I have used life in every game thus far.

Heros
Mage 175
LvL 2, Annulian Crystal
Uses High magic as shield of saphery is darn useful.

Noble 138
Armour of Protection, Great weapon
Once again goes with the Lions to give them some more punch.

Noble 178
BSB, Banner of the World Dragon, Dragon Armour, Shield
Goes with the Phoenix Guard horde.

Core
Sea Guard x50 685
Full Command, Banner of Eternal Flame
Okay, this might be over kill, but should stand up to punishment and with flaming attacks, prove to be a little more troublesome to some units and it is pretty cheap(the banner is cheap, not the unit).
I am 65 points short of the 750 min for core, any ideas of how to get those points up?

Special
Phoenix Guard x40 675
Full Command, Razor Standard
Well all the eggs in one basket, but it should be sturdy and somewhat hard hitting.

White Lions x20 330
Full Command
They take a flank and guard it.

Shadow Warriors x5 92
Outflank target war machines, characters, etc.

Rare

Bolt Throwers x2 200
For some war machine shooting.

So now 52 points left, any suggestions are welcome.
I am wondering if it would worth breaking the sea guard down to 40 and adding a small archer unit to get me to my min points for core.

I was honestly wondering how long it would be until Teclis showed up.

Teclis is TOO op imo. Speaking from a fellow High Elven player, he just rapes all and it isn't fun watching you're opponent rage-quitting after only 2 turns of the game.

What you need is a good strong unit of silver helms.I know as I am a high elves player,Ok mabey just a 9 year old starter but I read some old White Dwarf mag's but they say about silver helms all the time andhow you need a 20 strong unit of them. Oh yeah buy the island of blood set.

link kid wrote:What you need is a good strong unit of silver helms.I know as I am a high elves player,Ok mabey just a 9 year old starter but I read some old White Dwarf mag's but they say about silver helms all the time andhow you need a 20 strong unit of them. Oh yeah buy the island of blood set.

Mate he's got no other mounted units, no mounted heroes, and silver helms are only good for cheaper ranks than DPs, they are below par in every other way. Cavalry's taken a bit of a hit with 8th anyway Just a tip as you start out, but everything White Dwarf players say is not gospel - they are mainly trying to sell models, and are not the best players. Why would he buy the IofB set? - He already started with one by the look of it and doesn't need the models for his current list.