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2010/10/22 18:28:21
Subject: Juan Williams responds to his firing from NPR
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2010/10/22 18:35:38
Subject: Re:Juan Williams responds to his firing from NPR
I'm still not quite over the most disgusting part of the Juan Williams spectacle yesterday: watching the very same people (on the Right and in the media) who remained silent about or vocally cheered on the viewpoint-based firings of Octavia Nasr, Helen Thomas, Rick Sanchez, Eason Jordan, Peter Arnett, Phil Donahue, Ashleigh Banfield, Bill Maher, Ward Churchill, Chas Freeman, Van Jones and so many others, spend all day yesterday wrapping themselves in the flag of "free expression!!!" and screeching about the perils and evils of firing journalists for expressing certain viewpoints. Even for someone who expects huge doses of principle-free hypocrisy -- as I do -- that behavior is really something to behold. And anyone doubting that there is a double standard when it comes to anti-Muslim speech should just compare the wailing backlash from most quarters over Williams' firing to the muted acquiescence or widespread approval of those other firings.
But there's one point from all of this I really want to highlight. The principal reason the Williams firing resonated so much and provoked so much fury is because it threatens the preservation of one of the most important American mythologies: that Muslims are a Serious Threat to America and Americans.
-Yad
2010/10/22 22:00:44
Subject: Juan Williams responds to his firing from NPR
Hmm... I am not sure where I stand on this issue. The concept of a 'honest debate' is pretty goddamn tricky.
NPR receives some funding from the federal government and Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C., said he plans to introduce legislation to end federal funding for NPR.
"Once again we find the only free speech liberals support is the speech with which they agree. The incident with Mr. Williams shows that NPR is not concerned about providing the listening public with an honest debate of today's issues, but rather with promoting a one-sided liberal agenda," said Sen. DeMint.
"I plan to introduce legislation to defund {the Corporation for Public Broadcasting] and force a vote on it as well as other measures to start getting our fiscal house in order," he said.
While NPR did not handle this very well, cutting all funding because of this reeks to high fething heaven of something akin to the Acorn scandal. People abandoned a concept because of a flawed premise. They jumped to conclusions and cut the whole support system loose. It is gone, dead and fething gone. I do not want to see that happen with NPR regardless of Senator DeMints accusations.
Perhaps NPR should take a serious look at their bias, but cutting Juan Williams loose after he was talking to the guy who played word games with The View, doesn't seem all that stupid. They did not approach the situation in a way that was particularly reasonable, but I do not consider it hypocritical.
It would be cool if this thread could stay civil. I find this subject very interesting and would appreciate if it could steer clear of the obvious tangent, a.k.a. the religion argument.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2010/10/22 22:21:40
2010/10/22 22:23:25
Subject: Juan Williams responds to his firing from NPR
NPR's funding should have been cut long ago for
1) spamming classical music
2) keeping that useless Terry Gross employed
So I'm glad Williams got sacked, the bigot, and I hope that NPR gets replaced by a station that plays nothing but The Eagles, Bob Seger, and the Doobie Brothers.
PROSECUTOR: By now, there have been 34 casualties.
Elena Ceausescu says: Look, and that they are calling genocide.
2010/10/22 22:32:25
Subject: Re:Juan Williams responds to his firing from NPR
Wiki wrote:An October 8, 2003 interview with Fox News television host Bill O'Reilly, who walked out of the interview because of what he considered were biased questions, creating a media controversy fed by the ongoing presidential campaign. Toward the end of the interview, O'Reilly asked Gross if she had been as tough on Al Franken, who had appeared on the program two weeks before O'Reilly. Gross responded, "No, I wasn't...we had a different interview." Gross was later criticized by then NPR ombudsman Jeffrey Dvorkin for "an interview that was, in the end, unfair to O'Reilly" and for "carrying Al Franken's water". Dvorkin described Gross's interviewing tactic of reading a quote critical of O'Reilly after he had walked out of the room as "unethical and unfair". Gross was later supported by an NPR colleague, Mike Pesca, who contended that O'Reilly did have the opportunity to respond to a criticism that Gross read to O'Reilly leveled by People Magazine but that he defaulted by prematurely abandoning the interview. On September 24, 2004, Gross and O'Reilly met again on O'Reilly's television show in which Gross assured O'Reilly "that no matter what you ask me, I'm staying for the entire interview."
2010/10/22 23:04:26
Subject: Juan Williams responds to his firing from NPR
If this is what passes for bigotry, a man honest enough to admit he has knee-jerk fears momentarily, I have to think we may have lost perspective. Was it the most eloquent way the sentiment could have been expressed? No, of course not. Still, it is the people who won't do a self examination and recognize they have these human moments I would be concerned of. He didn't paint all Muslims as evil, in fact he talked mostly about himself. He said that when he sees a Muslim on a plain he has a moment of non-objectivity. A moment, not a flip-out, not a hissy-fit, not even a grand mal seizure. He doesn't even call security or homeland defense. For this you have a bunch of people calling him a bigot. What a wonderful world we live in that our bigotry is so mundane. More honest and pure forms of bigotry must have been rooted out long ago to allow this to be our standard.
To me this is just another situation in which everyone is wrong and no one is right on either side.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/10/22 23:06:22
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2010/10/22 23:08:33
Subject: Juan Williams responds to his firing from NPR
Is this a bad time to point out that there's no such thing as "Muslim garb", and that anyone who becomes nervous in the presence of the American "stereo-typical Muslim" has allowed themselves to be mislead?
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2010/10/22 23:13:19
Subject: Juan Williams responds to his firing from NPR
If this guy was a bigot, what the hell are O'Rielly, Beck, or Limbaugh? His firing was idiotic, he should have had to make an apology at most. This just lines up left media for the guns of the clearly antagonistic and utterly immune-to-firing right wing puke faucet.
----------------
Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad
2010/10/22 23:20:32
Subject: Juan Williams responds to his firing from NPR
dogma wrote:Is this a bad time to point out that there's no such thing as "Muslim garb", and that anyone who becomes nervous in the presence of the American "stereo-typical Muslim" has allowed themselves to be mislead?
That goes to him not being very eloquent and is of course paying the price for it. He is not a stupid man and I have no doubt knows these things but, as we all do from time to time, said something stupid. That does not make him a bigot alone, it makes him foolish. Of course being that close to Bill O'Rielly tends to cause these sorts of things. I'm not so much defending what he said as I do think calling him a bigot is uncalled for at this point. Saying he was thoughtless, or being a bit thick is certainly fine.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2010/10/22 23:30:44
Subject: Juan Williams responds to his firing from NPR
Yeah, I agree, nothing Williams said warranted calling him a bigot. In my mind the most likely scenario is that he let himself be a bit too at ease in discussing something with O'Reilly. Though who knows, he may believe that Muslim garb exists. It is pretty difficult to escape cultural memes, especially when they're tied to colloquial speech.
I also think that he failed to appreciate that one of the main reasons NPR doesn't want its journalists interacting with FOX is the tendency of FOX journalists to prompt liberal journalists to become gaffe prone on air; at least to the extent that 'gaffes' are defined by the NPR audience.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2010/10/22 23:38:17
Subject: Juan Williams responds to his firing from NPR
You should never be at ease around O'reilly. Not to say calm isn't good, but his job is to sell a specific type of opinion journalism. His job is to get you to say things that he can use in his general arguments. Juan Williams made a mistake that cost him one of his jobs, but also got him a multi-million dollar contract.
There is a whole lot of what-not going on here.
2010/10/23 03:18:47
Subject: Re:Juan Williams responds to his firing from NPR
Introduction:
Islam has set minimum standards for personal modesty, which are reflected in the various styles of clothing worn among Muslims. While such standards may seem out-dated or conservative to some people, Muslims view these values of public decency as timeless.
Source of Rulings on Islamic Dress:
Islam gives guidance about all aspects of life, including matters of public decency. Islam has no fixed standard as to the style of dress or type of clothing that Muslims must wear. However, some minimum requirements must be met.
Islam has two sources for guidance and rulings: the Qur'an which is considered to be the revealed word of Allah, and the Hadith or traditions of the Prophet Muhammad, who serves as a human role model and guide.
1st Requirement: What parts of the body are to be covered:
The first bit of guidance given in Islam describes the parts of the body which must be covered in public.
For women: In general, standards of modesty call for a woman to cover her body, particularly her chest. The Qur'an calls for women to "draw their coverings over their chests," and the Prophet Muhammad instructed believing women to cover their bodies except for their face and hands. Most Muslims interpret this to require headcoverings for women. Some Muslim women cover the entire body, including the face and/or hands.
For men: The minimum amount to be covered is between the navel and the knee.
2nd Requirement: Looseness:
Islam also guides that clothing must be loose enough so as not to outline or distinguish the shape of the body. Skin-tight, body-hugging clothes are out, for both men and women. When in public, some women wear a cloak over their personal clothing as a convenient way to "hide their curves." In many predominantly Muslim countries, men's traditional dress is somewhat like a loose robe, covering from the neck to the ankles.
3rd Requirement: Thickness:
The Prophet Muhammad once warned that in later generations, there would be people "who are dressed yet naked." See-through clothing is not modest, for either men or women. The clothing must be thick enough so that the color of the skin it covers is not visible, nor the shape of the body underneath.
4th Requirement: Overall appearance:
The overall appearance of a person should be dignified and modest. Shiny, flashy clothing may technically meet the above requirements, but defeat the purpose of overall modesty.
5th Requirement: Not imitating others:
Islam encourages people to be proud of who they are. Muslims should look like Muslims, and not like mere imitations of people of other faiths around them. Women should be proud of their femininity and not dress like men. And men should be proud of their masculinity and not try to imitate women in their dress. For this reason, Muslim men are forbidden from wearing gold or silk, as these are considered feminine accessories.
6th Requirement: Decent but not flashy:
The Qur'an describes that clothing is meant to cover our private areas, and be an adornment (Qur'an 7:26). Clothing worn by Muslims should be clean and decent, neither excessively fancy nor ragged. One should not dress in order to gain the admiration or sympathy of others.
Beyond the Clothing: Behaviors and Manners:
Islamic clothing is but one aspect of modesty. More importantly, one must be modest in behavior, manners, speech and appearance in public. Dress is only one aspect of the total being, and merely reflects what is present on the inside of a person's heart.
Is Islamic clothing restrictive?:
Dress requirements are not meant to be restrictive for either men or women, and most Muslims who wear modest dress do not find it impractical. Many people continue with their activities in all levels and walks of life.
Dave Chappelle is Muslim. He is wearing ruffles and polyester.
This is not a particularly complicated concept, and the suggestion that Muslims have standard dress is misinformed at best. There is no Muslim garb because Islam is a religion that includes hundreds of millions of people from hundreds to thousands of cultures found across the planet.
Not a particularly complicated concept, which leads me to question Juan Williams as he should be the first to understand something so basic.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/10/23 03:52:16
2010/10/23 03:57:54
Subject: Re:Juan Williams responds to his firing from NPR
Dave Chappelle is Muslim. He is wearing ruffles and polyester.
This is not a particularly complicated concept, and the suggestion that Muslims have standard dress is misinformed at best. There is no Muslim garb because Islam is a religion that includes hundreds of millions of people from hundreds to thousands of cultures found across the planet.
Not a particularly complicated concept, which leads me to question Juan Williams as he should be the first to understand something so basic.
At least, he should of stated,
"People who look stereotypically Muslim in American eyes."
Of course, he has accepted that Muslims have a way that they dress, so he has already assumed something.
I'm not a bigot, but it's 9:20PM and I still need to get dinner.
Anyway, a number of things I find humorous:
The Federal government gives $3.5million per year to NPR. If they cut that amount, which, by government accounting rounds to $0, then they would be saving exactly $0.00 per year. Nice! Only $1 Trillion more to go!
What sort of Muslim terrorist dresses up like a stereotypical Muslim? "Hold on, brother, let me put on my Muqtada al Sadr mask, before we enter the terminal, so that we are not recongized! Praise be to Allah!"
"Where did you get a Muqtada al Sadr mask, brother? How can I leave a world with such totally sweet merch?"
generalgrog wrote:
There's many more websites that sell "muslim garb"...According to dogma they are all ignorant.
I was unaware that Indonesian Muslims enjoyed wearing clothing culturally localized in the Middle East.
Its almost as if we have forgotten that Islam extends beyond the Arabian peninsula.
Perhaps we shouldn't be using clothing websites based on the English language as our barometer for constitutes clothing obligated by the Muslim faith.
There are standards for how Muslims dress in any event. If we were to use a noun with adjectives and maybe adverbs to describe how Muslims should dress...perhaps we should say...
"Muslim clothing."
However the definition of that would be very broad as the requirements for how a person of the Muslim faith should dress.
In America, how people dress in a certain region is how Muslim clothing is viewed, so in the American context-
"stereo-typical Muslim clothing."
should be how the wording is used if you want to remove any other descriptive words and assume the person using the phrase "stereo-typical Muslim clothing" is American.
I've seen enough Indian women traveling in Saris treated with apprehension to know that "looks close enough" is usually just short-hand for not being familiar with what is different. At some point its really just non-Western clothing.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2010/10/23 05:09:27
Subject: Juan Williams responds to his firing from NPR
Monster Rain wrote:It's pretty easy to tell the difference between those pics.
And I'm comparing various Muslims and their garbs, not Indonesians in general to Arabs.
So what would you consider in your own words using non-specific language the average American would use to describe Muslim clothing. Maybe that can put into perspective what an American would consider a Muslim.
Monster Rain wrote:It's pretty easy to tell the difference between those pics.
And I'm comparing various Muslims and their garbs, not Indonesians in general to Arabs.
So what would you consider in your own words using non-specific language the average American would use to describe Muslim clothing. Maybe that can put into perspective what an American would consider a Muslim.
Someone who follows the teachings of the Prophet Mohammed(Peace be on Him), I'd imagine.
Drink deeply and lustily from the foamy draught of evil.
W: 1.756 Quadrillion L: 0 D: 2
Haters gon' hate.
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