one handed guns and close combat

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**luggnuts**

shouldn't one handed guns count as close combat wepons in close combat

**kirsanth**

Only if they are pistols.
And depending, true grit?

Unless you are meaning this in proposed rules.

**forkbanger**

Pistols do.
Non-Pistols don't.

**don_mondo**

Yes, they do. Any two single-handed weapons can give the +1 bonus. Class of weapon doesn't matter, it can be Assault (Callidus Neural Shredder, for example) or some heretofore unkown single handed Heavy weapon. All that matters is that the model has two single-handed weapons and isn't breaking any of the other rules (powerfists, more than one special, etc). The fact that all pistols automatically count as close combat weapons does not rule out the possibility of other weapons doing so as well.

Page 37:
• +1 Two Weapons: Engaged models with two singlehanded weapons (typically a close combat weapon and/or pistol in each hand) get an extra +1 attack. Models with more than two weapons gain no additional benefit – you only get one extra attack, even if you have more than two weapons.

Note, typically, not exclusively.

Page 42:
FIGHTING WITH TWO SINGLE-HANDED WEAPONS
Some models are equipped with two single-handed weapons they can use in close combat, with the rules given below for the different possible combinations.

Again, it merely references single-handed weapons, without limiting it to any single class of weapon.

So yes, if you have a one-handed gun, be it Heavy, Rapid Fire, or Assault, it would give the +1 attack when combined with any other single-handed weapon.

**Kommissar Kel**

mondo; see at the top of the Page; the major heading for the entire section? Yeah it says "Close combat Weapons"

You cannot apply any of the rules below to ranged weapons excepting, of course, Pistols(which we are told in the pistol entry of ranged weapons are Close combat weapons).

**Leo_the_Rat**

No, Don Mondo is correct per BRB p37 if you have 2 single handed weapons then you are entitled to one extra attack.

**Flyinmiata1**

Correct. 2 single handed weapons give +1 attack unless stated otherwise in the codex description.

**Kommissar Kel**

Yes 2 single handed Close combat weapons do give you +1 attack

Is a "1-handed" rapid fire weapon; a Close combat weapon?

No, no it is not.

I used Rapid Fire in the above example because had i used "assault Weapon" some wise-alec would of course come in and say: "yes, when it is a pistol"

Only Pistols(and Burnas that do not fire in the shooting Phase before the assault Phase) are both ranged and Close Combat weapons and only Close combat weapons are under consideration in the rules for... well, Close Combat Weapons.

**crudcakes**

it has to be a pistol weapon to make a difference

**luggnuts**

so if you had a shoota in one hand and a power klaw in the other would that give you a bonus

**solkan**

You'd get the bonus if you could prove that the shoota (or any other weapon, for that matter) was a one handed weapon that could be used in close combat.

Just because a model is posed dramatically holding a weapon in one hand doesn't mean that the weapon is one handed.

**crudcakes**

buit of course a shoota isnt a pistol weapon so you wouldnot get the bonus

**luggnuts**

but if its one handed like on a meganob it should work

**crudcakes**

i guess so look it up in the rules

**Xca|iber**

I'd like to point out that neither the rulebook nor most codices (except the old ones with armouries) define any ranged weapons as being one or two-handed. That means arguing "one handed ranged weapons grant the bonus attack" is pointless, since the only one-handed ranged weapons are already all pistols.

For all other codices where this is not defined, they simply do not use the weapon in close combat (as it is not one or two handed), not to mention the fact that ranged weapons do not follow the same rules as close combat weapons. You would have to break both rules to make the proposition work.

The pose of a model does not matter.

So... the only time a ranged weapon counts as a CCW is when it is a Pistol (which causes it to count as a single handed normal close combat weapon).

**crudcakes**

yes thank you

**Kommissar Kel**

No the Shoota would Never gain a Bonus with a power Klaw. There are 2 reasons for this:

1) the Shoota is not a pistol; therefore not a CCW(handedness does not matter)

2) A power klaw is a Power Fist(or at least treated like one), and therefore can only ever gain a bonus attack from another power Klaw(or possibly a power Fist) per the rules on Page 42 of the BRB (A normal and a Special weapon, second paragraph).

**luggnuts**

Xca|iber wrote:I'd like to point out that neither the rulebook nor most codices (except the old ones with armouries) define any ranged weapons as being one or two-handed. That means arguing "one handed ranged weapons grant the bonus attack" is pointless, since the only one-handed ranged weapons are already all pistols.

For all other codices where this is not defined, they simply do not use the weapon in close combat (as it is not one or two handed), not to mention the fact that ranged weapons do not follow the same rules as close combat weapons. You would have to break both rules to make the proposition work.

The pose of a model does not matter.

So... the only time a ranged weapon counts as a CCW is when it is a Pistol (which causes it to count as a single handed normal close combat weapon).

but if for example meganobz have in their profile 1 shoota on one arm and 1 powerklaw on the other would that confer a bonus

**Kommissar Kel**

Lugg: No, see my post(s) above.

**luggnuts**

Kommissar Kel wrote:Lugg: No, see my post(s) above.

but it doesnt matter if its not a pistol its still one handed so shouldn't it count

**crudcakes**

nope did you just see his post

**luggnuts**

i did

**crudcakes**

then you should know then it dose'nt matter weather or not its one or two haned unless its a pistol weapon it dose'nt confer anything

**yournamehere**

Page 29 of the BRB lists under the heading "Pistol Weapons" that pistols count as CCw ans well as have the ability to shoot.

This addition to it's profile cannot be found under any other ranged weapon profile thus only pistols count as CCWs. So no a shoota, being an assault weapon cannot give the bonus attack for an extra CCW, that and the other being a power claw also disallows this.

**Spetulhu**

luggnuts wrote:but it doesnt matter if its not a pistol its still one handed so shouldn't it count

And equally obvious: if the model carries the weapon on his back he can't shoot. If his sword/knife is sheathed he can't use it in CC.

No... what the weapon and model look like has nothing to do with how it works. The weapon does what the rulebook and codex says it does, not what you think it could do by looking at the model.

**luggnuts**

k

**yournamehere**

I think the confusion comes from older rule versions that may have had references and rules that dealt with one handed and 2 handed guns but I cannot remember for sure as I did not play all the way through and it was a long time between when I used to play and when I picked it up again, I can't remember all the differences but I'm pretty sure there used to be more emphasis on single or 2 handed weapons. It's just pistols now.

**Arctik_Firangi**

Despite what p. 37 says about 'weapons', page 41 ("Close Combat Weapons") clarifies that these should be exclusively close-combat weapons.

Kel is correct.

~~Edit~~ Clarification: Read 'page 41' as 'page 42'

**Scott-S6**

forkbanger wrote:Pistols do.
Non-Pistols don't.

Unless they are described in their codex as being single-handed.

Only the oldest codexes still have these descriptions.

**Gwar!**

Scott-S6 wrote:
forkbanger wrote:Pistols do.
Non-Pistols don't.

Unless they are described in their codex as being single-handed.

Only the oldest codexes still have these descriptions.

Which are almost exclusively Pistols or CCW of some sort.