Ogre Kingdoms, where do I start?

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**QuietOrkmi**

So I decided to play ogres (I love the fluff) and I am wondering where to start... My FLGS plays 3000 points, so I was thinking about buying 2 Ogre Battalion boxes.

This would net me:
2 Units of 6 Ogre Bulls with a Standard, Musician and a Champion
2 Units of 4 Ironguts with a Standard, Musician and a Champion
2 Units of 24 Gnoblars with a Champion
2 Units of Lead Belchers

My friend has 2 Ogre models already that I could convert in pretty much anything, and 2 Giants that could be converted into slave giants.

I am really not sure where to go from there...

**RaptorsTalon**

Get the army book and see what modles take your fancy. It is often a good idea to look at all the units together and see which ones you like best.
Also choosing a Hero/Lord/Character first could be good so you can build your army around them.

**Grey Templar**

the battalion is the best place to start.

DON'T take champions on your bulls. the extra attack from the champ isn't worth it. No standards unless you know you will be playing the Call to Glory scenerio.

the First thing to convert those 2 ogres into is a Tyrant and Butcher. you will want at least a Tyrant, Slaughter master, BSB bruiser and a Butcher.

this gives you your General, a BSB, and 2 casters(1 Lvl4 and 1 lvl2)

a good tyrant build for those points is this. Talisman of Preservation(4+ ward), greyback pelt(-1 to be hit in CC), Mawseeker(+1T), HA, Enchanted Shield, and a Cathayen Longsword. you can swap the CLS for a GW if you want. this tyrant has a 3+ armor save and a 4+ ward and is very good against pretty much anything.

BSB is good with the Wyrdstone Necklace, Mawseeker, HA, charmed Shield, and the Tricksters helm. (has a 2+ ward against the first hit against him, a 5+ ward, 4+ armor, T6, and forces your opponent to reroll to wound him)

for your casters Grut's Sickle and the Bloodcleaver are excellent choices.

i also reccomend this website dedicated completely to Ogres

www.ogrestronghold.com

**blak43**

From what I've heard about ogres it's not really worth it to use 2 units of leadbelchers, you would be better off saving those 4 to be converted into other things and then maybe buff out your gnoblar unit size or get a scraplauncher.

**Grey Templar**

2 units of 4 leadbeltchers is decent at high points.

Leaddies got better in 8th(mostly because shooting got a ton of modifies added where there were none before) because they ignore ALL modifiers.

they can also fire in 2 ranks so a unit of 4 in 2x2 can let loose those shots and then charge with 12 str4 attacks, 2 Str5 impact hits, and 2 stomps.

the downside is they are expensive and Scraplaunchers are more effective for their points.

**Skittiez**

You need scraplaunchers i run 3 at 3k would even consider taking 4 they're that good

**Grey Templar**

4 would be excessive at 3k, but they certaintly are worthwhile units.

screen them with gnoblars to keep them from being baited. 40 points of gnoblars in a 10x2 can keep them firing away.

i reccomend you build your own scraplauncher rather then buying the GW one. it is the WORST model to assemble. no instructions and dozens of little pewter sticks.

you could buy an empire cannon or morter and strap it onto a GW rhinox(avaliable in the Ogre bits section)

**blak43**

That's a fairly expensive conversion option though, costs like $10 more then the regular scraplauncher doesn't it? not to include the gnoblars you would need to add, and you would have to make up your own way of assembling it, how is that a better option then just randomly slapping together little pewter sticks till it looks like something?

**Grey Templar**

well, thats the good thing about assembling the scraplauncher wrong. you won't be able to tell

**Hargus56**

Check the Stronghold, lots of good information there. I doubt there will be a situation where you need 8 leadbelchers. I would use 4 of them to make more bulls or for conversions for more butchers/SMs or Tyrants/Bruisers. Then keep those 4 cannons and order up a couple rhonix riders from forgeworld and give the rhinox rider the cannon, add some gnoblars and you got a converted scraplauncher. I would get at least 2 scraplaunchers, 2 giants is great, don't bother with yeti, man eaters or hunters. If you do get a man eater model they can be useful behind a defensive tyrant (glittering scales, greyback pelt, fencer's blades-10 WS and -2 to hit in close combat) to give him stubborn and tarpit units

**HawaiiMatt**

Ogres:
Take units of 6 to 8 (with heroes) as main fighting units. You don't have much to deal with fast cav; but 3 bulls do the trick pretty well.

At 3K, I'd bring the slaughter master for the bonus to dispel.
At 3K, I'd also consider gourgers. While not great, they can charge from the rear, while the ogres charge from the front; preventing the enemy from fleeing.
Scrap launchers are tits.
I've never had luck with leadbeltchers (I roll lots of misfires with them), but I've seen people do horrible things to units with them. Try out 4. If you like them, build 4 more.

Gnoblars. They hold my flank. I run 2 units of 48; 5 wide, and 10 deep. I keep them in range of my Ld10 Tyrant (in iron gut unit with banner of discipline) and they will tarpit really well (for only 96 points!).

I usually gear up my butchers to fight, because 3 attacks is pretty good. One gets the siege breaker, and the slaughter masters gets the tenderizer.

-Matt

**blak43**

If you get a maneater use him as a tyrant, there's no real reason not to and there are a couple really cool looking models.

**Grey Templar**

Do not give your SM either of the magic weapons Hawaiimatt suggests. blowing their magic allotment on weapons instead of items to help their casting is terrible. they do well enough in CC to protect themselves.

Bloodcleaver is a good weapon for one of them for 2 reasons. 1) it is cheap for what it does, 2) it heals them(and since many GM buffs involve hurting the caster it helps in that direction)

and SM is good far under 3k. as soon as he is takable you should take him. 1 SM>2 butchers. of course 1 SM and 1 butcher > 1 SM. at 2K you should definitly have a SM.

the best things to give your casters are these: Wyrdstone Necklace, Talisman of Endurance, Dispell Scroll, Feedback scroll, Potion of healing, Grut's Sickle, Skullmantle, Halfling Cookbook, and Bangstick.

@Hargus56: wouldn't it be cheaper to take the cannons and put them on a GW metal Rhinox for $30 instead of shelling out the $50 for Resin Rhinox. he could use some of the extra gnoblars that are on all the diffferent sprues to man it.

MEs are really only useful when used as blak43 suggests. the unit in the book is overcosted. they do make excellent alternative models for Bruisers, Tyrants, butchers with a little work.

**lalabox**

I've got 3000 points of ogres, and I went and bought the battalion box twice. If you like converting, then getting the batallion box is the way to go, because of all the bits you get Especially if you don't assemble all the leadbelchers or ironguts, and just make more bulls. I've got 7 Ironguts, 1 unit of 8 bulls, 2 units of 6 bulls, 2 units of 3 leadbelchers, with a tyrant, hunter and 2 butchers plus other assorted bits and bobs, like gnoblars, scaplauncher and a dogs of war cannon crewed by gnoblars. The battalion box is great value for your money. I built a 1000 point army just by buying it and a bruiser. Also, going 2 units of 3 leadbelchers is probably the way to go, they are more mobile, still have a lot of attacks, and you can put them on either flank. Plus you get extra bits for conversions. Also, I really recomend gorgers to attack enemy ranged units. Ogres aren't particularly well protected against ranged attacks, so it pays to have something to disrupt your enemy.

Finally, the scaplauncher is alright if you pin everything. I have one, it used to keep falling apart all the time, but then I took it apart, pinned it back together (pretty much pinning every single joint, as well as the platforms). While I haven't had to take it anywhere yet, it feels a lot stronger and more solid.

**QuietOrkmi**

Are Ironguts any good, or is it better to have more bulls?

One more thing, The Ogreclub bonus not be used with another weapon or an Ironfist... does this mean that I cannot have both a shield (ironfist) and an armor piercing club?

**HoverBoy**

QuietOrkmi wrote:Are Ironguts any good, or is it better to have more bulls?

That's oppinion based.

QuietOrkmi wrote:One more thing, The Ogreclub bonus not be used with another weapon or an Ironfist... does this mean that I cannot have both a shield (ironfist) and an armor piercing club?

Yes.

**bloodaxegit**

The ogre battalion box actually has enough spare gnoblars to make a unit of about 40, so you get 80 gnoblars in 2 boxes.

**CommissarCandlestick**

bloodaxegit wrote:The ogre battalion box actually has enough spare gnoblars to make a unit of about 40, so you get 80 gnoblars in 2 boxes.

It's true! I managed to get 43 Gnoblars from it (would have been 44 but one of them I put on the Bulls' standard). You can also use one of the Ironguts as a Bruiser/ Tyrant, saving you the money on buying one separately.

**Grey Templar**

QuietOrkmi wrote:Are Ironguts any good, or is it better to have more bulls?

One more thing, The Ogreclub bonus not be used with another weapon or an Ironfist... does this mean that I cannot have both a shield (ironfist) and an armor piercing club?

this is true, BUT

Ogre clubs are Special weapons(they have a special rule) so Bulls with IFs actually have 3 options when armed like this(as the FAQ says they have an Ogre club, hand weapon, and an Ironfist)

3 Str4 attacks with Armor piercing

3 Str4 Attacks with +1 armor save and a 6+ ward

or 4 Str4 attacks.

Ironguts are good in units of 6-8 and against high toughness monsters, but against most infantry and in larger units and bulls will pull ahead in damage output and survivability.

for comparison 16 IGs(max size) in a 4x4 formation put out 24 Str6 attacks and has 24 ablative wounds for 768 points

for the same cost you can get 19 bulls with Ironfists in a 4x4 formation(with 3 extra bodies) that put out 28 Str4 attacks(or 24 with Armorpiercing) and has 33 ablative wounds.

HA almost always gets negated so the IGs don't have any real advantage there and Str4 will preform almost as good against T3 as Str6 does and you have more attacks and can take more wounds before losing attacks.

**QuietOrkmi**

How many Iron Guts would I need to take out things that have a high toughness such as Giants at 3000 points...

**Grey Templar**

6 will destroy a giant assuming it doesn't do something nasty before they get to swing, but thats the risk with giants.

8 Ironguts can take some casualities before losing effectivness.

a unit of 8 is perfect.

lower point games 6 will do the same job.

**QuietOrkmi**

So I found out some uses for the following:

Musician: Free reform, win ties....
Standard: +1 to reform, +1 Combat Resolution
Champion: Takes away an entire column as they have to assign attacks to base contacts

6 (3x2) Ogres are fighting 40 skeletons (10x4), given the length of the ogres only 7 skeletons attack the front rank of 3 ogres. 6 can distribute their attacks to the rank and file ogres while the final 7th column have to attack the champion.

In addition, the champion can challenge other champions... most champions would rather not take on a ogre in one v one combat.

**HoverBoy**

Monstrous champs are also great for getting the underdog challenge.

**Grey Templar**

yes, although this is abit of an iffy bonus.

Ogre Champs are expensive and you might never get to use them. your opponent might accept with his own champion, or the unit may never get to attack a unit with an enemy hero.

20 points for the potential for 50 points of bonus points and 1 extra attack is generally not worth it. you could almost get another Ogre bull.

Most ogre players won't even get Standards on their Bull units to save points and get more bodies. Only if there is a chance of the Call to Glory(the breaking point one) scenerio will they take standards. 1 unit of IGs will take a magic banner and naturally a BSB, but normal banners get left out.

Bellowers are good for the Free Reform and are much cheaper then Standards and Champs so they get taken.

**QuietOrkmi**

What do you guys think of the Gnobler trappers. I wrote them off until I understood what scouts did in this game. The ability to tie up artillery or even kill them with sharp stuff sounds pretty awesome. But at 6 points each?

I am also wondering about the hunter with mastodon armor? I reread bolt throwers and found out that they ignore armor saves. Handy for those lizardmen and heavy Calvary.

So the champion, who effectively negates a column (if they are 5+ wide) because they have to direct their attacks at him instead of inflicting the 3rd wound on a bull, is not worth the points? Does it just not work like that or does just not come up often enough.

**Grey Templar**

they are good for warmachine hunting and general annoyance.

they also count as Gnoblar units for the purpose of taking Scraplaunchers so they can help you not need to take as many units of fighters.

They either get ignored(which is incredibly dangerous for an opponent to do as they can and will kill/tie up Warmachines) or a disproportionant amount of attention gets paid to them.

very few armies have units as cheap as gnoblars to send to destroy them.

50 Fighters, for example, can hold 20 or 30 Swordsmen all game. 100 points of utter

tying down 300+ points of fighty troops and they will probably kill a few of them too.

**QuietOrkmi**

I thought about having my tyrant near the Gnobler fighters so they have ld 9 and are steadfast (stubborn unless outnumbered)... Not only to tie up units but to act like an anvil as they tippically outnumber their opponents (removing thief steadfast) so the ogres can smash them...

If trappers are good, then how many should be in a unit? Is 26 and a champion for 160 points too much? (26 so it is even points and require 7 to die before a panic test. Champion to redirect attacks)

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I play in a place where Call to glory is possible. A magic standard (ironguts) + battle standard bearerer + general at 3,000 points mean either losing 2 standards or a general causes me to lose.

Also, what are some good banners to take for my unit of ironguts and for my battle standard bearer? I thought about the flamin banner as regeneration could get annoying as I have no way of negating it.

**Grey Templar**

26 trappers is excessive. 15 would be fine unless you are at higher points. Priority is more ogres.

Irongut Banners: there are 2 standards that are good. Banner of Eternal Flame and Runemaw. if your IGs are in a large unit that your Characters are going in then Runemaw is best(keep some Gnoblars nearby to bounce the spells to) if they are a smaller unit that will be flanking or monster hunting then the Flame banner is good. great at killing those pesky Hydras and Trolls.

Don't give your BSB a magic banner. it is more important for him to survive then to give some extra bonuses, although Big Names arn't magic items so you can take a Magic Banner and a Big Name, but keeping him alive is top priority. a 5+ ward and Mawseeker is decent protection.

**QuietOrkmi**

If I am taking Gnobler trappers, will a hunter be any good? He pumps up the LD of the trappers is they are near by, he shoots a bolt thrower (ignores armor saves, penetrates ranks) and is burly in hth. Throw in the ability to catch people with his pets on 3d6 drop the lowest and he can be the hammer to the trapper anvil. I thought about giving him the mastodon armor to make sure he lives through most shooting. What do you guys think of a 195 point bolt thrower that on a 2+ cannot die to shooting.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
While I do not have any Gnobler scappers, I do have 2 giants that can be converted into slave giants. I thought about running both to give my opponent more targets then he can deal with shooting wise.

**Grey Templar**

the Hunter is junk unfortunantly.

Bolt Throwers do NOT ignore armor anymore other then Str modifiers. it does penetrate ranks though.

195 points is an expensive bolt thrower that counts towards your Hero maximum. He does bump Trapper Ld, but so does a Tyrant or Bruiser General.

Slave Giants are best in pairs and they do work well as Arrow(bullet, Spell, Warmachine...) magnets. people just don't realize that the Slave Giant isn't as good as a regular giant, but they try and shoot him down.

if you do get your giant into combat you must use him cautiously. he isn't stubborn like other giants(hence he is cheaper) and is good against different targets. Regular Giants get Swing/Thump with Club which is nasty against Big targets. the Slave Giant gets flail/Throttle with chain which is better against smaller infantry sized targets. send him into the flanks of infantry and don't send him off to kill other giants and monsters.