Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Well, I've got to say they really did an excellent job on the codex. Beautiful artwork, great fluff that actually makes sense, nothing that makes me say "wtf did they put that in there for!" I'm extremely hopeful and excited for the Wracks when they finally arrive sometime in the next 10 years I put this list together because I've always been a huge fan of Haemonculus spam. And, now they've made it even better. The list offers plenty of scoring bodies, a decent amount of Lancey goodness, and some Mandrakes However, I'm not sure on how well they're going to perform. If they can get stuck into a juicy unit early on, or even just tie stuff up, I think they'll be worth their points. I'll let you know how it goes! I can't wait to turn people into steaming piles of flesh goo with the Liquifiers!


HQ:
Haemonculus, Liquefier Gun, Scissor Hand (75)

TROOPS:
Wracks x10, Liquifier Gun x2, Raider, Flicker Field (190)
Wracks x10, Liquifier Gun x2, Raider, Flicker Field (190)
Wracks x10, Liquifier Gun x2, Raider, Flicker Field (190)
Wracks x10, Liquifier Gun x2, Raider, Flicker Field (190)
Wracks x9, Liquifier Gun, Raider, Flicker Field (170)

ELITES:
Mandrakes x10 (150)

HEAVY:
Ravager, Flicker Field (115)
Ravager, Flicker Field (115)
Ravager, Flicker Field (115)

TOTAL: 1500

Well, the Haemonculi Coven also attracted my attention.
Not sure if you need Mandrakes.
I'd drop them for a Raider squad (5 Warriors with a blaster).
The longer range of a blaster makes this unit into a gun boat.

Yeah, I had thought of that. However, I'm a purist

Grim Smasha wrote:Yeah, I had thought of that. However, I'm a purist

Okay, I understand that hoping that GW will bring out some models for the Wracks.

Well, I got some game time in against some BA. We only made it to the top of turn 3 because he had to go but I managed to do a good deal of damage. In my 2nd turn I managed to drop 4 speeders, a Vindicator, and kill 7 marines with liquifiers. In the assault phase however the lost and got swept. Pretty good. I'll have to run it more to get a real picture however.

What did he clean you up in cc with? what would do you feel you need to counter it, the list looks solid to me

It was bad rolls really. I assaulted the remnants of the unit I just liquified. He took 2 wounds, I took 3, failed my LD by 1, and then we each rolled a 6 for sweep. He wins the tie Otherwise, I'm sure they would have been locked for another turn or so, for the win.

I think it would be in your favor to drop 1 wrack out of each squad and the mandrakes and add in 3 more homunculae. with liquifiers. Starting with FNP is pretty awesome, imo.
Maybe drop the last unit of wracks down to 5 and put them into a venom w double splinter cannon for dedicated anti-infantry/MC. This would free up enough points for night shields for the ravagers.

Magister187 wrote:I think it would be in your favor to drop 1 wrack out of each squad and the mandrakes and add in 3 more homunculae. with liquifiers. Starting with FNP is pretty awesome, imo.
Maybe drop the last unit of wracks down to 5 and put them into a venom w double splinter cannon for dedicated anti-infantry/MC. This would free up enough points for night shields for the ravagers.

Wracks already start with FNP. That said, the advice still isn't bad; giving them FC could be very nice for poison rerolls, and I don't see mandrakes doing much good unless they already have a pain token. How are you using the mandrake unit, smasha?

DaveL wrote:

Magister187 wrote:I think it would be in your favor to drop 1 wrack out of each squad and the mandrakes and add in 3 more homunculae. with liquifiers. Starting with FNP is pretty awesome, imo.
Maybe drop the last unit of wracks down to 5 and put them into a venom w double splinter cannon for dedicated anti-infantry/MC. This would free up enough points for night shields for the ravagers.

Wracks already start with FNP. That said, the advice still isn't bad; giving them FC could be very nice for poison rerolls, and I don't see mandrakes doing much good unless they already have a pain token. How are you using the mandrake unit, smasha?

Indeed, Wracks with FNP and FC are decent vs. Marines in cc.

The problem really lies in the points. As already stated, the Wracks already have FnP. In order to get three more Harmonculi I would require 120 additional points if I wanted to equip them with only a liquifier, an absolute must have because they're incredible. Tack on an additional 45 for Scissorhands, or 60 for Flesh Gauntlets, and I'm already broke Taking a naked HQ just for pain tokens is a little silly imo. Taking that into consideration, I would have to drop the Mandrakes. . .not really a big deal But, that would still leave me slim on points by 5, if I take my preferred combination. That could be remedied by taking a Venom I suppose. . .Let me write it up BRB. . .


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay, here we are. I had to take out the Mandrakes and reduce unit sizes a bit. Overall, I like the look of it. It actually looks like a Coven assault I introduced Acothysts to all unit because, oddly, they have a higher LD than Haemonculus do and I had an extra 50 points laying around. Let me know what you think!

HQ: 300
Haemonculus, Liquifier Gun, Scissor Hand (75)
Haemonculus, Liquifier Gun, Scissor Hand (75)
Haemonculus, Liquifier Gun, Scissor Hand (75)
Haemonculus, Liquifier Gun, Scissor Hand (75)

TROOPS : 855
Wracks x9, Acothyst, Liquifier Gun, Raider, Flickerfields (180)
Wracks x9, Acothyst, Liquifier Gun, Raider, Flickerfields (180)
Wracks x9, Acothyst, Liquifier Gun, Raider, Flickerfields (180)
Wracks x9, Acothyst, Liquifier Gun, Raider, Flickerfields (180)
Wracks x5, Acothyst, Liquifier Gun, Venom, Splinter Cannon x2 (135)

HEAVY: 345
Ravager, Flickerfields (115)
Ravager, Flickerfields (115)
Ravager, Flickerfields (115)

TOTAL: 1500

Consider tossing the Scissor Hands for basic Power Weapons on the Haemonculi, since they will be with the Wracks and benefit from FC, meaning S4 attacks on the charge. That frees up enough points to take a Shattershard on one or a Crucible of Malediction, depending on what you feel you need.

Still, good list.

I think venom blades are better than scissorhad personaly 10pts cheaper and wound on 2s instead of 3s

Yea, but a Power Weapon can push combat res in your favor with unsaveable wounds.

Scissorhands give you additional attacks If I was going to put a PW in my units I would add an agonizer anyhow, so that I have the chance to wound MC's regularly. Also, let's not forget, that with FC all of my poisoned attacks will get rerolls to wound on MEQ on the charge. That's pretty prolific. To bad I can't get poisoned hydra gauntlets And, as I've learned with my BA army, str4-5 PW's are not all that impressive. More often then not, they do very little. I've had much more success with PF's doing their job.

Power weapons of S 3 are pretty bad if you fight MEQ,
and if you fight GEQ then power weapons are a waste of points.
I'd stay with poisoned weapons which give reroll to wound if coupled with FC.

wuestenfux wrote:Power weapons of S 3 are pretty bad if you fight MEQ,
and if you fight GEQ then power weapons are a waste of points.
I'd stay with poisoned weapons which give reroll to wound if coupled with FC.

Power weapons at S4, however, are pretty good against marines and units with FNP - and especially marines with FNP. FC gives you S4 on the charge. I'd say that, since the rest of his army is heavy on poisoned weapons, he probably wants a few models who can take out guys with good armor saves and FNP.

DaveL wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:Power weapons of S 3 are pretty bad if you fight MEQ,
and if you fight GEQ then power weapons are a waste of points.
I'd stay with poisoned weapons which give reroll to wound if coupled with FC.

Power weapons at S4, however, are pretty good against marines and units with FNP - and especially marines with FNP. FC gives you S4 on the charge. I'd say that, since the rest of his army is heavy on poisoned weapons, he probably wants a few models who can take out guys with good armor saves and FNP.

That is exactly my point. A few unsaved wounds are very useful to bump combat to your favor.

Well, even power weapons of S4 are not really helpful.
I used to give them to the NM ACs in my EC army.
Don't expect too much.

wuestenfux wrote:Well, even power weapons of S4 are not really helpful.
I used to give them to the NM ACs in my EC army.
Don't expect too much.

S4 Power Weapons are solid. 4+ to-hit, 4+ to-wound. That is 2 hits, 1 wound with no save. Using a Poison 3+ Weapon would still lead to about 2 hits, so about 2 wounds with re-rolls. However, they get saves. At such a cheap point cost, I think Power Weapon / Liquifier combo is just fantastic on a Haemonculi, with a smattering of other fiddly bits as needed (Shattershard, Crucible).

Well, I don't intend to bring my Haemies into the thickest melee.
They will die anyway and give easy KPs.

Well, they should be going before a large portion of armies at I5 on the charge, meaning he won't take too much of a beating. With 6+ and FNP, I prefer his odds in most combats to a round spent in the open.

The odds with an Agonizer, outside of the initial charge, are better. Though, I would like to point out the Haemonculus really isn't bad in combat. He's got 2 CCW's and I believe he starts with 2 attacks. Standard power weapons are crap imo. Especially on str3 models. If I'm wasting points on a PW then I giving him an Agonizer so they can wound/take armor saves away from MC's. That seems like the more logicial choice. I'll have to see what I can do about it in this list. . .not much from how it appears, without losing some punch somewhere.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think this is my final revision. . .

HQ: 320
Haemonculus, Liquifier Gun, Agonizer (80)
Haemonculus, Liquifier Gun, Agonizer (80)
Haemonculus, Liquifier Gun, Agonizer (80)
Haemonculus, Liquifier Gun, Agonizer (80)

TROOPS : 800
Wracks x9, Acothyst, Agonizer, Liquifier Gun, Raider, Flickerfields (200)
Wracks x9, Acothyst, Agonizer, Liquifier Gun, Raider, Flickerfields (200)
Wracks x9, Acothyst, Agonizer, Liquifier Gun, Raider, Flickerfields (200)
Wracks x9, Acothyst, Agonizer, Liquifier Gun, Raider, Flickerfields (200)

HEAVY: 375
Ravager, Flickerfields, Night Shields (125)
Ravager, Flickerfields, Night Shields (125)
Ravager, Flickerfields, Night Shields (125)

TOTAL: 1495

The only reason to go for Power Weapons would be point savings - if you can go Agonisers, you might as well. Of course, with them in each squad already, you could bump them down for some utility - Shattershard is a must and Crucible is solid, depending on what you see.

Why is Shattershard a must? Wounding is based on a toughness test. Most units will pass that fairly easily.

Grim Smasha wrote:
HQ: 320
Haemonculus, Liquifier Gun, Agonizer (80)
Haemonculus, Liquifier Gun, Agonizer (80)
Haemonculus, Liquifier Gun, Agonizer (80)
Haemonculus, Liquifier Gun, Agonizer (80)

TROOPS : 800
Wracks x9, Acothyst, Agonizer, Liquifier Gun, Raider, Flickerfields (200)
Wracks x9, Acothyst, Agonizer, Liquifier Gun, Raider, Flickerfields (200)
Wracks x9, Acothyst, Agonizer, Liquifier Gun, Raider, Flickerfields (200)
Wracks x9, Acothyst, Agonizer, Liquifier Gun, Raider, Flickerfields (200)

HEAVY: 375
Ravager, Flickerfields, Night Shields (125)
Ravager, Flickerfields, Night Shields (125)
Ravager, Flickerfields, Night Shields (125)

TOTAL: 1495

I know its ridiculous to make a claim like this so early, but I honestly think a list that is more less exactly like this (perhaps with some minor alterations) is the best list out of the DE Codex at this points level. It has very few weaknesses and can be brutal.

No grotesques? You can get 4 in a raider for 200 pts. 1 unit if these will give you a scary cc unit that will take for ever to kill. I haven't done the mathhammer on it yet but:

4 Grots on the charge give you 16 attacks at str 6. The wracks can wound just was well with more attacks in cc but the higher str of the Grots can help with ripping armor open.

4 Grots are 12 T5 wounds. Thats 2 more wounds at 1 higher Toughness than a 10 man wrack squad.

I see what you're saying about Grotesques. A few things worry me about them however. Have you seen the leadership? It's near atrocity level Take the haemonculus out of the unit and you're going to see a broken and fleeing or dead Grotesque unit pretty fast. They also don't help me score objectives. They may be able to contest but that's all. They also have those crazy rage rules that can actaully damaged my army as well when they lose the Independent Chararcter and a crafty opponent will make sure that happens fast. The benefits don't outway the cons imo. When I start getting up towards 2500 I may inlcude a unit or two with an ancient or something. I may portal them in as well. Somethings to think about.

Grim Smasha wrote:I see what you're saying about Grotesques. A few things worry me about them however. Have you seen the leadership? It's near atrocity level Take the haemonculus out of the unit and you're going to see a broken and fleeing or dead Grotesque unit pretty fast. They also don't help me score objectives. They may be able to contest but that's all. They also have those crazy rage rules that can actaully damaged my army as well when they lose the Independent Chararcter and a crafty opponent will make sure that happens fast. The benefits don't outway the cons imo. When I start getting up towards 2500 I may inlcude a unit or two with an ancient or something. I may portal them in as well. Somethings to think about.

Actually, if you take the Haemy away from the Grotesques, they start blowing up all over the place. Hahah...actually kind of a funny thing if they're deep in the opponent's backfield.

After they blow up once they're removed from play. That's not something I'd like to see from my, almost as expensive as a Terminator, Grotesques. Since most DE are going to be in the backfield as well you're just as likely to get hit and hurt. It can, in theory, really jack your chances of winning.