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Hello all.

I play Space Marines. I was looking for Tactica against the Space Wolves Thunderwolf Calvary. Thanks!

EWG

Volume of Fire, Dakka Preds tend to help alot if they have storm shields

If They don't than possibly try the vindicator, it will double out their T5

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:Volume of Fire, Dakka Preds tend to help alot if they have storm shields

Add Null Zone in the mix and those storm shields start to lose their durability.

Gotta second that Null-zone suggestion. Codex marines have some of the best chance of stopping TWC, just because of that.

Epicwargamer wrote:Hello all.

I play Space Marines. I was looking for Tactica against the Space Wolves Thunderwolf Calvary. Thanks!

EWG

there's a couple of things you can do....
vindicators are insteant death. If you can position the vindicator so that they're out of cover when you hit, you could potentially wipe the whole squad. If there are storm shields in there some might live but it will definitely cut their numbers down.

hit them with enough twin linked flame throwers and they'll die too. say.... drop pod stern guard 10 flamers should do a good deal of damage. If you assume 4 hits per flame thrower thats 40 hits, 5s wound with rerolls gives 20 wounds, 3+ saves gives 7 wounds, or about half the unit. maybe less if there's a wolf lord in there to take some of the hits.

assault terminators can go toe to toe with thundercav and win.

lysander of course fears no one.

flame storm cannons look good vs. these guys too. they auto hit, wound on 3s, no saves (except again for the storm shields and wolf lord, if there is one)
they're definitely a challenge.
AF


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and yes null zone. thats a really good point.

Focus fire! Just dump everything you got (i.e. bolters, missiles, plasma, spitballs, etc) at them for a turn or two and they vanish. Normally I wouldn't recommend getting so single minded but they are such a huge point sink for Space Wolves it's worth it.

Don't forget to sacrifice units. It's allright to put a unit of tacticals and their predator in the way to buy another round of focused shooting before they assault anything valuable. They have an impressive threat-range, but with a bit of clever positioning and respecting the terrain you can limit their choices and somewhat control what they get to kill.

Those doggeis loves their chew toys :-)

I would put a small unit of scouts or tacticals out to bait the TWC out and then shoot the crap out of the TWC. If theres more than one "rock" unit of TWC, you will have trouble singling one squad out while dealing with the others.

If you have 5 sniper scouts holding an objective in the rear, shoot with them as well. A thunderwolfcavalry without an IC has a LD of only 8. It's about 45-50% chance you cause at least one wound on them, and then they suffer a risk of 28% of failing their pinning test. So it's roughly a one in eight chance that they will go to ground for each 75-points unit firing at them. Not that wonderful odds, but hilarious when it happens. I like to imagine the proud warriors on their ferocious mounts trying to hide in the long grass yelling "sniper sniper!!!"

Also: Thunderfire cannons can cause them to move as if in difficult terrain. This effects their assaultmove as well. Anything to control them and slow them down.

What about orks? What's their answer?


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What about orks? What's their answer?

that would be a charging gazkull. was mentioned earlier.

thunderingjove wrote:What about orks? What's their answer?


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What about orks? What's their answer?

15 Burnas in a Battlewagon.

Librarian Terminator w/Null Zone, Storm Shield
5 Terminators w/Thunder Hammers & Storm Shield
Land Raider Crusader
GG

If you're BA, and they're running without an IC, Fear of the Darkness and simply escort them off the table.

AspireToGlory wrote:Librarian Terminator w/Null Zone, Storm Shield
5 Terminators w/Thunder Hammers & Storm Shield
Land Raider Crusader
GG

Actually had my TH/SS termies eaten alive by these, was a squad of 3(1xSS,1xMB,1xPF) + Lord w/ frost blade
I rolled average he rolled good. lost 4/5 before fifth did a wound than lost to the pf

I now shoot them to death, sternguard do the trick with poisonous 2+

To answer your question, from a players that plays with ThunderCav and even Lords mount on ThunderCav your going to have a hard time. Your best bet is to use a lot of shot against them. If they are running three lords with the little wolves and have an armor save of 2/3+ its going to be hard. Vindcator are waste, because I carry two long fang group to shoot them down. Term w/SS/Thunderhammer are going to die, they only have one wound, while i have 2. Your going to have to use weapons that can cause instant death in CC that your best bet. Long range weapons, like the Vindcator are okay, but once again are a waste, the most your going to hit is about two or three. Sternguard are nice, but cost to much, and that includes Vanguard.

3 dreadnoughts, 3 vindicators. This should present enough S10 to shut down the wolves.

Complain that their models aren't from GW and have their unit/list disqualified.

dreadnoughts too. str 10 instant death. good point.

Lots of great advice here peoples how to handle TWC with SM. Null Zone and a Vindi or two will mess them up. If you want to tool your list against them then take Lysander. He will mess them up.

dont forget as a 15 thunder cav player plus 20 fenrisians. i can horde mix them so even with st10 etc i get cover saves. and my 2 squads of bs4 melta scouts can take out 2 vindis quick as can my 4 drop pod melta grey hunters. any good sw lost has plenty of anti armour for turn 1 and then horde cav to speed 24" a turn till it gets to hack 6 attacks each into what ever is still around. each of my squads of thunderwolves has 30 attacks on the charge with either a power weapon or rending plus the fenrisian attacks

Those are some great points! Against TWC you are going to have to work hard for the win and play smart.

Plain old rapid fire works, especially sternguard wound on 2+ ammo. Against their 3+ 3++ saves 18 rapid fire sternguard shots has the same effect as 18 lascannons.

You kill them just like Nob Bikers Volume of Quality fire. Null Zone + Str10, power, rending, or insta-kill weapons = dead Thundercav.

For all other armies 100+ shots per round should have them failing enough saves to get them off the board.

schadenfreude wrote:Plain old rapid fire works, especially sternguard wound on 2+ ammo. Against their 3+ 3++ saves 18 rapid fire sternguard shots has the same effect as 18 lascannons.

Sure it's the equivalent of 18 lascannon shots, but that's still only around 3 unsaved wounds after the mathhammer. 3 wounds isn't even enough to take out a single model. With wound allocation you would need around 6-7 wounds (for an average thunder wolf squad with lord) just to take out a single model, and that's IF the other player doesn't allocate more onto the Lord or wargear fenrisian wolves. Also, most competitive space wolf players won't equip every single thunderwolf cavalry with a storm shield as it's extremely expensive, making lascannons far better.

What you really need are just a massive massive amount of shots to pour into them. Sometimes though you may not be able to wipe out the squad even with your entire army shooting at it, especially if your army favors a low amount of high str/ap shots instead of just volume. I've had my thunderwolf deathstar survive mass melta and bolter shots from a biker army, as well as a huge amount of shoota boys (over 120 shots) + lootas in one turn and still make it into close combat.

That Null Zone sounds really nasty though, that combined with mass shooting is your best bet to taking them down.

schadenfreude wrote:Plain old rapid fire works, especially sternguard wound on 2+ ammo. Against their 3+ 3++ saves 18 rapid fire sternguard shots has the same effect as 18 lascannons.

dont the sternguard weapons only have a 24" range or is it less?
so chances are the thunderwolf cav will get in the assault first before the stern can fire due to cover from terrain or horde cover.
thunderwolf cav are very good units, fast and quite tough. its tricky going against a sw army with lots of cav cos you need to decide what to focus your fire on there tanks or twc, if you go for the twc the tanks are going to unload on you and if you take on the tanks the twc will be assaulting you in turn 2 the latest (normally)

fox40 wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:Plain old rapid fire works, especially sternguard wound on 2+ ammo. Against their 3+ 3++ saves 18 rapid fire sternguard shots has the same effect as 18 lascannons.

dont the sternguard weapons only have a 24" range or is it less?
so chances are the thunderwolf cav will get in the assault first before the stern can fire due to cover from terrain or horde cover.
thunderwolf cav are very good units, fast and quite tough. its tricky going against a sw army with lots of cav cos you need to decide what to focus your fire on there tanks or twc, if you go for the twc the tanks are going to unload on you and if you take on the tanks the twc will be assaulting you in turn 2 the latest (normally)

Yes, sternguard have rather short ranges and risk being charged, but it's quite useful with some clever positioning, since they can move and shoot. If I drop pod or libby-gate my sternguard to stand between the thunderwolves and my opponents board edge he can of course assault them, but will then be running exactly towards where I want him to be (away from the important parts of my army). I can also put sacrificial units between my sternguard and the wolves, since the cover save a unit offers is still worse than the saves already available to wolves.

Mellon wrote:

fox40 wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:Plain old rapid fire works, especially sternguard wound on 2+ ammo. Against their 3+ 3++ saves 18 rapid fire sternguard shots has the same effect as 18 lascannons.

dont the sternguard weapons only have a 24" range or is it less?
so chances are the thunderwolf cav will get in the assault first before the stern can fire due to cover from terrain or horde cover.
thunderwolf cav are very good units, fast and quite tough. its tricky going against a sw army with lots of cav cos you need to decide what to focus your fire on there tanks or twc, if you go for the twc the tanks are going to unload on you and if you take on the tanks the twc will be assaulting you in turn 2 the latest (normally)

Yes, sternguard have rather short ranges and risk being charged, but it's quite useful with some clever positioning, since they can move and shoot. If I drop pod or libby-gate my sternguard to stand between the thunderwolves and my opponents board edge he can of course assault them, but will then be running exactly towards where I want him to be (away from the important parts of my army). I can also put sacrificial units between my sternguard and the wolves, since the cover save a unit offers is still worse than the saves already available to wolves.

if you put your stern between my wolves and my board edge, if they are not the best target i can move 24" away and leave the stern stuck with nothing to do.
and i wasnt saying about putting meat shields in between i was talking horde cover so fenrisians and thunderwolf mixed group, like ork players do. everything gets cover saves.
i know stern will be good against twc but twc have the choice of powerful attacks or fast speed. along with horde cover its a strong combination

As I suggested the last time this came up stand on the second floor + of any ruins and ignore them as they don't have guns and by the rules can't assault you.

A really really good tactic that works against TWC all the time, is to put really weak units in a conga line where TWCs are headed. The idea is to "receive" the TWC, and thanks to their 40mm bases, is very EASY to achieve.

What happens is that the TWC player assaults the weak unit, annihilating it on HIS assault phase. This opens him up to an entire round of shooting. A proper shooting phase will wittle down even a 5-man TWC into half strength.

The next step depends on the make up of your army, it would be one of the 2:

-Hit them with your counter charge units: Assault Terminators, Dreadnoughts, etc.
-Throw more fodder at them: Grots, 30-man boyz, blobs.

An alternate tactic would be to do the same with really cheap vehicles like rhinos and speeders. Make sure you move cruising speed while blocking them on the turn. They will need to hit them on 6's and because they cant locked, you open them up again for another shooting turn.

What really ruins a TWC spam army is proper mechanized army. Just block the way with tanks, you'll see how easy it is to kill TWC cheese lists.