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I think there should be alternate rules for sniper headshots.
here they are....

Headshot- a headshot is, as implied, an excellently aimed shot hitting the head (or a vulnerable point of some sort, if you don't have a head )
If a 6 is rolled for a to hit roll from a sniper shot, this counts as a headshot.
Headshots wound on a 2+.

Normal saves are allowed.

However, If an model suffers an unsaved headshot wound, this model is automatically ID ed.

MCs and models with a toughness of 6 or more cannot be ID ed by a headshot.

Obviously, vehicles cannot be headshotted (sp?).

The headshot rule cannot be combined with the rending rule to automatically kill.


I do think this is a strong rule, but it actually is not all that strong mathhammerwise (1/6 hits, 5/36 wound, MEQ- 1-2 unsaved. Termie armor- 0-1 unsaved.)

Also, I think that snipers are not strong enough in 40k.
Compare them to 40k.
Now to real life.

See what I mean?



so.... thoughts anyone?

Why can't headshots be combined with rending? It's a sniper rifle, why can only badly aimed shots rend?

it would be too cheesy....

So, a 6 to hit, then wounding on 2s, then auto ID because no armor saves are allowed? maybe...... idk.
If sniper prices went up then sure, because snipers are WAAAAY underpowered in 40k.

I just don't think the headshot rule can work if it drops one of the staple sniper rules, it doesn't make sense for the best marksman there to be incapable to finding a weak-point in the armour to Rend with.

Already has rending, case closed. What a sniper does need is the old fashioned 2+ to hit it used to have.... That would make 'em way more useful....

My thought process-firstly, the helmet is certainly not gonna be too weak, which is why armor saves can be taken. Also, This just makes it so something good happens on a 6 to hit as well as a 6 to wound.

Since a headshot is in the same place everytime, it wouldnt pick out vulnerable points.

I like the idea, but sniper rifles (even with this new rule) still suck

Plus there are things out there in the 40k universe that can survive without heads, and that kinda throws a monkey wrench in the works.

They have a rule that governs shots on vulnerable locations, such as the head, it's called rending.

that would be for weak points in the armor. chances are, the helmet won't be too weak, so you can rend when hitting the head.

@bromsy
I know, but most things die, and this is the best headshot rules I've got.

Headshots = rending

According to the Deathwatch roleplay, the helmet of an Astartes actually provides less protection than the rest of his armor.

ok, whatever!
just wanted some thoughts.

Thanks all!

cheers,
SD

Shrike325 wrote:They have a rule that governs shots on vulnerable locations, such as the head, it's called rending.

This +1


the Helmet is usually the weakest part of any suit of armor. it may be strong, but you have a better chance of getting through there then anywhere else.






and Snipers in 40k don't really function as snipers aside from the Vindicare. Snipers really wouldn't appear on a battlefield as small as the one 40k is played on. Snipers would be more of a Stratigim that allows you to make a single sniper shot against any single model or vehicle each shooting phase.

the actual models that are called snipers in 40k function more like riflemen. a more accurate ranged unit that takes can hurt bigger things because they can take time to aim for vital areas. all other units are sub-machine gunners and just point and shoot.

I believe we call them Squad Designated Marksmen or Squad Advanced Marksmen nowadays.

@Melissia: Just Advanced Riflemen, at least where the Army is concerned. There are however, skill levels, Basic Marksman, Sharpshooter and Expert. Then you get into the Sniper schools and they have their own names. But most of us just call them Snipers.

I agree the Sniper Rifles in 40K are way underpowered to even todays standard high power rifles.

As far as the head shot rules are concerned, I like rending with them 2 wounds is just to nice. ID is nice, but I think that would make many people just fill out their troops with snipers and you'd have a camping Counter-Strike game going on with the only thing moving on the board being Vehicles. (Yes I know this is how Tau/IG plays. heh j/k Tau/IG players...or am I? )

It's a nice idea, I just don't know if I'd want to give up rending for it is all.

I thought headshots were already covered by rending, considering the fact that they 'automatically' wound and ignore armor.

Get rid of the ID and let rending be used with it and it looks good. Maybe even replace rending with ID on a 6 with a headshot? or even both?

This is why I hate FPS games. Everyone thinks that getting an insta-kill headshot is really easy with a sniper rifle.

It isn't. Hitting exactly where you're wanting to is incredibly difficult. In reality, you aim for the center of mass of your target and just hope you hit it anywhere.

If you want a rule for sniping headshots, it should be the following:

You have to declare you are aiming for the head.
Hit on a 6, miss on 5 or less.
Wound on a 2+
Armor saves allowed

Grakmar wrote:

This is why I hate FPS games. Everyone thinks that getting an insta-kill headshot is really easy with a sniper rifle.

It isn't. Hitting exactly where you're wanting to is incredibly difficult. In reality, you aim for the center of mass of your target and just hope you hit it anywhere.

If you want a rule for sniping headshots, it should be the following:

You have to declare you are aiming for the head.
Hit on a 6, miss on 5 or less.
Wound on a 2+
Armor saves allowed

The hardest game to get Headshots in is Battlefield: Bad Company 2. Travel time + Bullet Drop + Scope Movement + Target Movement = lots of waiting for the right moment to pull the trigger.

But games like Counter-Strike..it's easy heh.

Grakmar wrote:

This is why I hate FPS games. Everyone thinks that getting an insta-kill headshot is really easy with a sniper rifle.

It isn't. Hitting exactly where you're wanting to is incredibly difficult. In reality, you aim for the center of mass of your target and just hope you hit it anywhere.

If you want a rule for sniping headshots, it should be the following:

You have to declare you are aiming for the head.
Hit on a 6, miss on 5 or less.
Wound on a 2+
Armor saves allowed

Instead of making them that weak, why not make it something along the lines of a -2 to BS? That way sergeant Telion could still be hitting on a 3+. Maybe making him useful giving him headshot ability.

How about Sniper weapons can re-roll to hit if the target didn't move in the previous player turn? That way it makes them (1) more likely to hit, and (2) more likely to Rend.

Maybe I've been watching too many movies, but sniping seems to be about waiting until a target is stupid enough to stop moving.

hey, a lot of Imperial Guard Commanders and Commissars have forcefields tht only protect the head and neck area. a Headshot would be the WORST shot you could make against them.

Nurglitch wrote:How about Sniper weapons can re-roll to hit if the target didn't move in the previous player turn? That way it makes them (1) more likely to hit, and (2) more likely to Rend.

Maybe I've been watching too many movies, but sniping seems to be about waiting until a target is stupid enough to stop moving.

It wouldn't effect Rending (apart from just getting more hits), as that goes off the too-wound roll in 5th ed.

And, I have to ask: What's wrong with the current sniper rifles? They're bad against massed infantry (as they should be), but are really good against MCs. Doesn't that actually make sense? IRL, you never see full platoons with all sniper rifles. Assault rifles are supposed to be the all-around weapon for your army.

There's nothing wrong with Sniper Rifles, people just wished they worked differently. Me, I think the ability to snipe specialist models is a part of the game that should be spread around more, but I can see the problem with that from a game perspective rather than the curious simulation perspective that so many people seem to take.

Instead of making them that weak, why not make it something along the lines of a -2 to BS? That way sergeant Telion could still be hitting on a 3+. Maybe making him useful giving him headshot ability.

But then instead wouldn't the other scouts shot at BS1 ???

How about on a roll to wound of 5+ you get rending but below rending doesn't come into affect. And sniper rifles nead to have much longer range than they do. I use devastor lascannons as snipers because scout snipers are so underpowered.

they are...

How about this...

If you roll a 6 to hit, any roll to wound (of a 2+) is automatically a rending wound. That look better?

I think the current rules make sense, thought snipers are under powered. Instead, what do you think if snipers had the option of targetting any model in a unit? Much like Eldar mind war. Opinions? Also please note that this is just an idea that popped into my head, I'm just moving the thread on.

Makes sense. Snipers target officers and NCOs so it would make more sense to be able to specifically target them. Perhaps some sort of sniping specialized preferred enemy like rule?

I think sniper rifles should Hit on 2's with normal rending rules but should be alowed to designate who they shot and killed like tellions special rule, but i can understand why you would want insta death with a sniper but it would make the game to unbalanced as people would just pack out there army with snipers, i once faced a guy who had just elder rangers and a farseer, i could barely move to attack him and it just wasnt a fair and enjoyable game :(