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We couldn't find any rules in the rulebook stating you could not do this, yet it seemed like WAY too many moves during a movement phase to be fair.

Start of Ork Players Movement Phase:
1.a) An Open-topped Battlewagon's unit of Nobs, disembarked away from wagon
b) A different unit of Burnas Moves nearly 6 inches to embark in the same said Battlewagon
c) The Battlewagon then moves (which it hasn't yet) to Ram and Def Rolla my unit of Sternguard Space Marines taking damage

2. Shooting Phase:
a) The Burna's inside then take 80+ burn attacks that destroy the entire unit of Sternguard, including the Hero, until they are destroyed; with no evasive movement available to me.

It seems to me that once the transport disembarked, then reembarks, the movement of the wagon is either exhausted or prohibited from full movement? Imagine units nearby that kept disembarking and reembarking all the time and then it has still full movement?! Or Perhaps after units are rammed/def rolladed, they are cannot take a further flame attack (since Wagon is in the way of the flame templates)?

Embarked units can only shoot if the vehicle has moved 6" or less. Other than that it was fine.

StormBolter wrote:It seems to me that once the transport disembarked, then reembarks, the movement of the wagon is either exhausted or prohibited from full movement?

Units embarking or disembarking don't require any action on the part of the transport vehicle. So no, troops embarking and/or disembarking do not prevent the vehicle from moving.

Remember a ramming vehicle must always move at full speed as well. A tank shocking vehicle does not necessarily have to. If you place your marines cleverly to get out of the way, you can probably minimize the number of flamer hits you take.

There is no restriction on a vehicle disgorging and picking up a unit and then moving.

This is a good lesson to DoG with a melta the BW as well, 2d6 S 10 hits is much better than 80 flamer hits.

Doesn't even have to be a Battlewagon to do what your opponent did.

General_Chaos wrote:Doesn't even have to be a Battlewagon to do what your opponent did.

It does if it were to have a Deffrolla.

everything seems legal... If the Ram was a tank shock(Ram must be full movement and models cannot fire out of a transport if the transport moved above Combat Speed) and said tank Shock was 6" or less(7" if a red paint job was applied).

If he had declared he was ramming, and/or he moved the BW beyond Combat Speed then the burnas could not shoot.

calypso2ts wrote:Remember a ramming vehicle must always move at full speed as well. A tank shocking vehicle does not necessarily have to.

Right - how far did your opponent move the Battlewagon? He has to declare how far he is moving it before he moves it. If he declared over 6", then he couldn't flame the unit. If he didn't declare, then he played it incorrectly.

are you able to disembark a vehicle, than re-embark with a dif unit?

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:are you able to disembark a vehicle, than re-embark with a dif unit?

\

Yes. The only thing you can't do is disembark, then re-embark with the same unit.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:are you able to disembark a vehicle, than re-embark with a dif unit?

Part of your confusion seems to be that you are attributing the disembark as a verb for which the vehicle is the subject, whereas its actually a verb with the passengers as the subject. Its the passengers taking an action, not the vehicle.

The Battlewagon had a Red Paint Job, but it only moved 6" or less for the Def Rolla attack/Ram.

StormBolter wrote:The Battlewagon had a Red Paint Job, but it only moved 6" or less for the Def Rolla attack/Ram.

Ok, then it was mostly legit.

the thing is that this was not a ram attack but a Tank Shock; there is a difference(a significant one) in that while he may have said he was ramming(and I am assuming there was no vehicle behind the sternguard to ram) you both seem to have followed ALL of the rules for a simple tank shock.

Technically he did not Legally ram, but he did legally tank shock and all effects were properly applied for a tank shock.

Keep in mind that in order to disembark from a vehicle you have to have started your turn side of it. So yes you can have one unit leave a vehicle and another one get in the newly empty vehicle.

I was said opponent...

I did declare my tank shock as "Im gonna run those guys over! Moving 4in"

And just to clear it up then...as it will affect my play with an RPJ I can move 7in and still fire out correct? And (while im on it) if he were to run up and try to melee the wagon hed still hit on 6s correct?

Yes that is correct.

You MUST tank shock at combat speed, minimum. So you have to move 6 inches.

Edit: mistaken about the RPJ. Yes it does give 1 extra inch no matter how far you move.

If you move at cruising speed though, you cannot shoot the passengers out.

IF you rammed, hit an obstacle and stopped short you would be okay I think.

Edit: Oops wrote combat not cruising!

psyklone wrote:
Edit: mistaken about the RPJ. Yes it does give 1 extra inch no matter how far you move.

Yeah it's not a 'may', one just has to add +1, so with set distance it's set distance +1.

psyklone wrote:You MUST tank shock at combat speed, minimum. So you have to move 6 inches.

Edit: mistaken about the RPJ. Yes it does give 1 extra inch no matter how far you move.

Negative on having to move the total 6 in...combat speed is any movement up to 6in i believe...

Shake Zoola wrote:

psyklone wrote:You MUST tank shock at combat speed, minimum. So you have to move 6 inches.

Edit: mistaken about the RPJ. Yes it does give 1 extra inch no matter how far you move.

Negative on having to move the total 6 in...combat speed is any movement up to 6in i believe...

Shake Zoola is correct; Combat speed is not 6" it is up to 6"(7 for RPJ). Just likecruising speed is anywhere from >6"-12"(>7-13 for JPJ)

yeah i've used this with my orks. i got semi-accused of wrong-doing too so don't worry. i used a mob of shoota boys though and had a similar effect . you could move 7" if you wanted and roll over a unit if you fancied and still be perfectly okay to shoot with the squad inside.

in my game i charged the disembarked mob of orks into another squad and made a big ol' hole in his defence. i miss orks

One unit gets out.
Another unit moves 6" and gets in. Fine so far.
It does a 6" tank shock (not a ram). Still fine.
Burnas shoot from on board. That's fine too.

The only bit that's debatable is moving 7" with RPJ and having the passengers shoot. The wording for RPJ says that the vehicle suffers no penalty for the extra inch - passengers aren't mentioned.

Scott-S6 wrote:One unit gets out.
Another unit moves 6" and gets in. Fine so far.
It does a 6" tank shock (not a ram). Still fine.
Burnas shoot from on board. That's fine too.

The only bit that's debatable is moving 7" with RPJ and having the passengers shoot. The wording for RPJ says that the vehicle suffers no penalty for the extra inch - passengers aren't mentioned.

shooting passenger are part of the vehicule... so if vehicule not affected.. neither are the passenger

Shooting passengers are not part of the vehicle. Passengers can only fire when the vehicle has moved 6" or less.

If the vehicle counts as the actual speed for being assaulted, why wouldn't it count as the actual speed for passengers shooting?

RPJ says "Ork vehicles with RPJ add +1 to their move in the movement phase but do not incur penalties for this extra inch."

The vehicle does not incur penalties. Far from definitive wording and a topic that's come up a few times.

Personally, I'll tend to take the less advantageous interpretation in circumstances like that.

If your quote is correct then it is very clear cut. Passengers are not vehicles therefore they do not get the advantage of the RPJ.

I do this kind of stuff all the time.

IIRC, the passenger rule doesn't mention 6", it mentions cruising speed. Since the vehicle can move 7" and still be going combat speed, the passengers can still shoot.

Coredump is correct.

The rule says the vehicle doesn't incur penalties for the extra inch (Codex Orc p93). The BRB says that passengers can't fire if the vehicle moved at cruising speed. Cruising speed is more than 6" up to 12". So while the vehicle doesn't suffer the effects of moving 7" in place of 6" the passengers do.

Here is the question.

If an ork vehicle with RPJ moves 7", is that combat speed or cruising speed?

If it is combat speed, then the passengers can shoot. If it is cruising speed, then the passengers can't shoot.


Keep in mind, you must be consistent. Is moving 13" cruising speed, or is it Flat Out?