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Chris CP and ShakeZoola seem to think that 7" counts as cruising speed for being assaulted and combat speed for passengers shooting.

I agree with Leo - the vehicle counts as moving 6" for it's own purposes (e.g. firing weapons) but for passengers and assaulters it counts having moved 7".

If it counts as 6" for the passengers then it will should also count as 6" for being assaulted.

It counts as cruising speed for being assaulted, 4+ to hit. Stop refering to things in inches, use the speed bands and everything will make sense.

Cruising speed is 6 to hit - I'm really not sure what you're trying to say there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Scott-S6 wrote:I agree with Leo - the vehicle counts as combat speed for it's own purposes (e.g. firing weapons) but for passengers and assaulters it counts as cruising speed

If it counts as combat speed for the passengers then it will should also count as combat speed for being assaulted.

There, changed it to speed bands - the point is unchanged.

ETA, the crux of the issue is this - does the vehicle count as moving the reduced speed for all purposes or only for actions that the vehicle tries to take? (Chris and Shake seem to want the ideal, it counts as whichever depending on what benefits them)

Ha, meant Combat speed there. The vehicle counts as combat speed in all regards when it moves 7".

Which is a perfectly valid interpretation and supported by the example. But the "ork vehicles with RPJ" "do not incur penalties" suggests that it might not be for all purposes.

I have no problem playing it either way. But I would not play using Chris and Shake's interpretation.

The unit in a vehicle isn't moving thats way they can assault out of one thats moved. The vehicle is moving, RPJ gives +1in to movement w/ no penalty, so it would count as Combat Speed at 7in. Don't see were they can't shoot is coming from.

BRB p66. Models in vehicles that move at cruising speed can not shoot.

But they didn't move at cruising speed as the vehicles with RPJ only moved IT'S combat speed. The unit inside dosen't move they are just riding along, and using the Vehicle speed.

No, the vehicle moved cruising speed but it doesn't suffer the penalty for moving the 1" over the normal combat speed. As to the rest of your statement what are you trying to say. Of course the passengers move and they count as moving just read the whole section on page 66.

According to that logic, it *can't* move 13".

No, the vehicle moved Flat Out speed but it doesn't suffer the penalty for moving the 1" over the normal Cruising speed.

Since it can't move Flat Out.... it can't go 13"... according to your logic. This is not a matter of a 'penalty'... it is a definition.

Thus, it also can't move 13" and disembark troops, since troops can't disembark if the vehicle moved Flat Out.

OR....

The vehicle moves Combat Speed, and can move another 1" without the penalty of moving at Cruising speed.
The vehicle moves at Cruising speed, and can move another 1" without the penalty of moving at Flat Out speed.

It would be the last case. It would be able to move 13" without suffering the penalty of moving flat out. The book itself says that a vehicle that moves 13" would "count as" only moving 12". However the RPJ only effects the vehicle and not the unit inside of it. So that while a vehicle can move 7" (count as 6"[combat speed]) for its purposes like shooting weapons the unit inside still moved 7" (cruising speed). Likewise a vehicle that moved 13" (count as 12"[cruising]) would not suffer the catastropic effects of blowing a dangerous terrain test, but the unit inside could not disembarked since the vehicle moved 13" (flat out speed).

Leo_the_Rat wrote:No, the vehicle moved cruising speed but it doesn't suffer the penalty for moving the 1" over the normal combat speed. As to the rest of your statement what are you trying to say. Of course the passengers move and they count as moving just read the whole section on page 66.

I didn't say they don't count as moving, but that they don't "really" move and are just riding along. The next part of the sentence makes it pretty clear you using the Vehicles speed not the units.

And your point would be...? When you look at what passengers can do in a vehicle you have to look at how far the vehicle actually moves. That sets the restrictions.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:And your point would be...? When you look at what passengers can do in a vehicle you have to look at how far the vehicle actually moves. That sets the restrictions.

Thats the point, like you point out before the book say the vehicle counts as and you just point out you use how far the vehilce actually moves. Well it actully moved IT'S combat speed, not more. So the unit inside only moved at combat speed. Be Rule never said 6in. but combat speed. A vehilce only movement term.

It's obvious that the 13" does not make them go flat out. The way it's worded is clear, IMO. You don't gain anything extra that makes you go flatout, otherwise it would say you go flatout - it simply says "you get an extra inch" - not "you get the ability to go flatout 13"."

Kommissar Kel wrote:

Shake Zoola wrote:

psyklone wrote:You MUST tank shock at combat speed, minimum. So you have to move 6 inches.

Edit: mistaken about the RPJ. Yes it does give 1 extra inch no matter how far you move.

Negative on having to move the total 6 in...combat speed is any movement up to 6in i believe...

Shake Zoola is correct; Combat speed is not 6" it is up to 6"(7 for RPJ). Just likecruising speed is anywhere from >6"-12"(>7-13 for JPJ)

Oh yea. Doh. Basically its has to be >0, and <cruising. I read it as 'speed, a defined distance over time' instead of as a threshold e.g. Not speeding on a highway, and speeding on a highway.>

Okay, lets work through this...

Leo_the_Rat wrote:It would be the last case. It would be able to move 13" without suffering the penalty of moving flat out.

So to be sure we understand each other, you agree with these statements...

The vehicle moves Combat Speed, and can move another 1" without the penalty of moving at Cruising speed.
The vehicle moves at Cruising speed, and can move another 1" without the penalty of moving at Flat Out speed.

Which is good, because I agree with that also. So, we both agree that if the vehicle with RPJ moves 7", that the vehicle moved at Combat speed. Or in other words, the vehicle did not move at Cruising speed. So far so good? Now lets move forward....

You continued to say...

So that while a vehicle can move 7" (count as 6"[combat speed]) for its purposes like shooting weapons the unit inside still moved 7" (cruising speed).

And herein lies your error. Passengers don't move at Combat/Cruising/FlatOut speeds. That terminology/definitions only apply to vehicles. Nothing in the rules deal with passengers moving in speed bands, nor do any rules or conditions rely on passengers moving at any given speed.

The rules say... (my emphasis)
"may not fire at all if the vehicle moved at Cruising speed that turn."

As we both agreed, the vehicle was moving at Combat speed, and not at Cruising speed, which is why the passengers can, indeed, shoot.
Which is also why, the vehicle can move 13" and still disembark passengers.

And why assaulting models hit it on a 4+.