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okay- so I was thinking- if raven guard are all assault squads and fast stuff, why can't they have BA rules e.g assault armies. So I thought- can I have my sons of corax as a BA sucessor chapter (ruleswise)? It would make sense (fluffwise). Plausable?


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anyone?

Well they are assault Armies in make-up but they work differently in tactics.

At least according to Lexicanum:

Lexicanum wrote:"The Raven Guard are known for hitting weak points in enemy defences hard and they perform lightning strike upon locations of tactical importance to cripple their enemy. The Raven Guard disdain the notion of recklessly charging into enemy ranks. This differentiates their tactics from those of the Blood Angels. The Raven Guard rely heavily on their Scouts for pinpointing enemy positions and to scout for good drop sites. Because of their hit and run tactics they also make extensive use of Assault Squads. The Tactical Squads of the Raven Guard are often deployed via Thunderhawks or Drop Pods."

You could make an assault army with them, but I think they would play more Deep Strike and Hit and Run style tactics, then just assaulting in and destroying the enemy outright one-on-one ala-Blood Angels tactics. And they still make good use of their Scouts and Tacticals where most BA armies replace Tacticals with Assault Squads trying to get all their units into CC as fast as possible and I don't see many BA armies using Scouts at all. (This is just my opinion about the Scouts, but I haven't seen many using them. Just a personal observation.)

Design wise yeah it seems plausible, fluff wise sure, just different tactics.

I think it's fine to represent the Raven Guard with BA codex...

But I suggest you to take a look at Imperial Armour 8.
There is a raven guard special character allowing Assault squads as troops (whereas you must take a scout squad)... Using him combined with Kayvan Shrike (2 hqs i know... only relatively big games) you should be able to field a nice Raven Guard army without using other codexes...

But if it's problematic I think there aren't particular fluffy problems to use BA rules...(cept for the rage... strange stuff for the cold blooded Raven Guard)

I think this would be great, I've seen Night Lords used for this also and they were great. All it requires is a little work to get the fluff working.

punkow wrote:I think it's fine to represent the Raven Guard with BA codex...

But I suggest you to take a look at Imperial Armour 8.
There is a raven guard special character allowing Assault squads as troops (whereas you must take a scout squad)... Using him combined with Kayvan Shrike (2 hqs i know... only relatively big games) you should be able to field a nice Raven Guard army without using other codexes...

But if it's problematic I think there aren't particular fluffy problems to use BA rules...(cept for the rage... strange stuff for the cold blooded Raven Guard)

for the rage- I was thinking of doing the ravens after the dropsite massacre, when corax used gene acceleration. Some raven guard turned into abominations. The black rage could represent that.
and yes- I have korvydae. I just want more CC stuff than assault squads. I also have shrike...I just don't like his stats- I only use him in large games (2,000pts+) for his rules (stealth, fleet, infiltrate, ect.)

Could you not just use codex SM and pick fluffy units? Using the BA codex seems a bit over the top as raven guard are not a "assault" army nor do there wear nipple armor or have sex with each other.

actually- raven guard are basically entirel revolved around assault squads, vanguard veterans, and basically any other jump-pack equipped units.
I am not going to use the models (maybe sanguinary guard as my honour guard, but w/o the nipple- torsos) or fluff, so that gets around those problems.

Yeah, I think BA codex is great for RG. Obviously, you're not gonna be using deepstriking land raiders, storm ravens, death company, while other units like sang guard would need some conversion work, but overall it's a great fit. BA scouts actually work real nice for RG too because they can get locator beacons instead of teleport homers, which allow for precise placement of the rest of your army. Overall I think BA codex lets you play a real fluffy RG

So I am going to my FLGS to ask if I can use my RG SC in BA. Will buy BA codex in 2/3 weeks. I'll have a look at it first.

I've seen people play raven guard as BA, also Night Lords as BA. So long as you only use 1 codex and your opponent clearly knows what is what it doesn't matter what you paint them.

Jubear wrote:Could you not just use codex SM and pick fluffy units? Using the BA codex seems a bit over the top as raven guard are not a "assault" army nor do there wear nipple armor or have sex with each other.

""Have Sex With Each Other"? You got a problem with Blood Angels bro? Also, just cus an army has units with different armor in it doesn't mean you have to use them...

Jubear wrote:Could you not just use codex SM and pick fluffy units? Using the BA codex seems a bit over the top as raven guard are not a "assault" army nor do there wear nipple armor or have sex with each other.

Well, someone has some problems someone needs to deal with. As a son of Sanguinius, I am offended.

I dont see why/ how there could be a problem. I know SniperJolly uses the Space Wolf codex for his pre-heresy Iron Hands. Just let your opponent know before hand. Also, wrong forum friend, this should be in general discussion.

I personally find it funny how Space Wolves cry about Blood Angels so much yet fail to realize how cheesy their Long Fangs are.

By the way, Blood Angels rock Happygrunt, happy to hear somebody out here is also a Blood Angel

yeah- good point. I'll start buying sanguinar guard stuff after christmas. (after I get the LR achilles)

hey- can you guys help decide what units I could use for the BA raven guard?
Death company- badly got the genetic flaw
Sanguinary guard- honour guard/vanguard veterans
Mephiston- monster (got the genetic flaw badly)?
Sanguinary priest- apothecary
Black rage- genetic flaw
Stormraven- raven guard gunship/transport for honour guard
Libby dread- well, just a libby entombed in a dread
Furioso- probably won't use it, but a CC dread (raven guard love CC)
Lucifer-pattern engines- modified by the raven guard to be faster/swifter
anyone got anything else?
and what is the BA alternative of a chapter master? Is there one? Or is it just seth?
thanks for the help guys great community.
will get codex for christmas/with christmas money.

shrike wrote:hey- can you guys help decide what units I could use for the BA raven guard?
Death company- badly got the genetic flaw
Sanguinary guard- honour guard/vanguard veterans
Mephiston- monster (got the genetic flaw badly)?
Sanguinary priest- apothecary
Black rage- genetic flaw
Stormraven- raven guard gunship/transport for honour guard
Libby dread- well, just a libby entombed in a dread
Furioso- probably won't use it, but a CC dread (raven guard love CC)
Lucifer-pattern engines- modified by the raven guard to be faster/swifter
anyone got anything else?
and what is the BA alternative of a chapter master? Is there one? Or is it just seth?
thanks for the help guys great community.
will get codex for christmas/with christmas money.

For the Sanguinary Guard you could probably just use Vanguard Veterans.

shrike wrote:

and what is the BA alternative of a chapter master? Is there one? Or is it just seth?
.

The BA Chapter Master is Dante, they don't have a generic version since he is a specific person. Seth is the CM of a successor chapter. Either would work as a counts as.

Also, no real reason to justify Storm Ravens, they even have Raven in the name. I am not a huge fan of the "Gene Flaw" explanation for everything, and if you want to stay true to form over function I would say using Mephiston, Death Company or a vehicle spam list would be somewhat disingenuous. Everything else make at least some sense, but those things do not imo.

okay, thanks for the input. Because the rules for my raven guard CM have been stamped, I'll use it as a successor chapter master.
so the ones that are (so far) viable are:
stormraven
sanguinary guard
sanguinary priest
furioso
libby dread
I won't use the baal predator, but I still like the idea of the fast engines (raven guard like fast things)
any more changes?

Magister187 wrote:

shrike wrote:

and what is the BA alternative of a chapter master? Is there one? Or is it just seth?
.

The BA Chapter Master is Dante, they don't have a generic version since he is a specific person. Seth is the CM of a successor chapter. Either would work as a counts as.

Also, no real reason to justify Storm Ravens, they even have Raven in the name. I am not a huge fan of the "Gene Flaw" explanation for everything, and if you want to stay true to form over function I would say using Mephiston, Death Company or a vehicle spam list would be somewhat disingenuous. Everything else make at least some sense, but those things do not imo.

Imho I'd say the gene flaw makes perfect sense.

The fluff for that period in the Horus Heresy talks a ton about the Raven Guard having the monsters on their side.

And it's not like he's going to be spamming one kind of a thing, he just wants a BA army that is Raven Guard and has the fluffy aspect of them in it.

I'm not going to do sanguinary guard spam- I just want 1 or 2 squads to be my honour guard/vanguard veterans.
I'm not going to do death company spam either- I just want a squad to be the "monsters"
Would I be able to use meph as a really badly monster? or is that a tad OTT?

do not use Mephiston or The death company... they're totally out of fluff for RG... It would seem you just want cheesy units.

No...if I did I'd get a load of baals.

punkow wrote:do not use Mephiston or The death company... they're totally out of fluff for RG... It would seem you just want cheesy units.

That seems to be more of your opinion that he's using Cheesy Units...



I say go for whatever you want, a huge monster though, would probably be more along the lines of a Death Company Dreadnaught.

DC dread sounds good...maybe with a WHF monster DCCW?

shrike wrote:DC dread sounds good...maybe with a WHF monster DCCW?

I'm not saying using a DreadNaught model, although that would work too.

I was saying making a monster, sticking it on a dreadnaught base, and treating it like a dreadnaught.

what model? hmm... I was thinking a grendel-type thing, like from the beowulf stories...


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And what unit should I get first? Just so you know, I already have my HQ sorted and DC, baals, and the SCs are a big no-no

shrike wrote:what model? hmm... I was thinking a grendel-type thing, like from the beowulf stories...


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And what unit should I get first? Just so you know, I already have my HQ sorted and DC, baals, and the SCs are a big no-no

I'd pay both of those things are up to you on how you want to build them.

What model do you think most represent a grendel-type creature? I don't know.
and I don't have the BA codex- what unit is the best one for a new army out of a DC dread, sanguard, assault squad, tac. squad, libby dread or sanguinary priest?

shrike wrote:What model do you think most represent a grendel-type creature? I don't know.
and I don't have the BA codex- what unit is the best one for a new army out of a DC dread, sanguard, assault squad, tac. squad, libby dread or sanguinary priest?

For a Grendel-Type thingy I guess some sort of a zombie. (Or are you talking about the fish-people? I've never read Beowulf so I just typed it in on Google)

If you want a really big one try using green-stuff on a Giant, but that would depend if you have greenstuffing skills.

For the units you stated, I guess Assault Squads would be the best, but unless you've played the codex before you wouldn't have much experience in what you like you use most.

Okay- I have not got GS skills. Never tried, and I'm not forking out that much when:
a) there are cheaper alternatives.
b) I can just buy the model.
c) I just need it for one conversion.
In the vanilla codex I love assault squads and vanguard because they are fluffy and I like jumpers (My v.vet squad has 6 TH/SS, 4 LC- 700pts- I like a good overkill)
I have no experience with BA, I don't trust my FLGS manager because he'll probably try to sell the most pricey unit, the manager who I do trust left to work in MK.
I mean the zombie-like thing, but what zombie-type thing is the size of a dread? I might make up rules for it, so it's a MC. (maybe a carnifex?) hmm...