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I was flipping the codex today and I noticed something. In the entry for Terminators, it says that "one Terminator squad in the army may select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport". In the entry for Assault Terminators, it says that "one Terminator Assault squad in the army may select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport".

Going by this wording, it would be legal to field up to 5 Land raiders in a space marine army. Something along these lines:

Vulkan

Terminator squad, Heavy flamer
Land Raider Redeemer Dedicated transport

Terminator Assault Squad, TH/SS
Land Raider Crusader Dedicated transport

10 Marines, MM, flamer

10 Marines, MM, flamer

10 Marines, MM, flamer

Land Raider

Land Raider

Land Raider



Is this possible?

Looks legit to me. Costs lots of points and suffers against melta, but you can do it.

Nothing against it in the FAQ:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1490297a_FAQ_SpaceMarines_Nov2009.pdf

Chaos can take an LR for every squad of terminators, so they can get six of their (inferior) LRs.

Deathwing has the top count, given *every* termie crew can order up a ride. You just need points to spend. This subject comes up once in a while and someone else probably has the top number (17? 12?) off the top of their head, along with the exact 3k+ points cost.

I don't.

Brothererekose wrote:Deathwing has the top count, given *every* termie crew can order up a ride. You just need points to spend. This subject comes up once in a while and someone else probably has the top number (17? 12?) off the top of their head, along with the exact 3k+ points cost.

I don't.

In the fluff, maybe, but not in the game. Dark Angel Land Raiders are strictly Heavy Support options, their function as a troop transport seemed to have slipped Jervis Johnson's memory when they re-wrote the codex.

scubasteve04 wrote:Is this possible?

Yes. What you can not do is take three termie squads with dedicated transports and three heavy support. So six is right out!

Templars and Blood Angels can both do better in that they can get Landraiders as transports for a whole bunch of squads.

Scott-S6 wrote:

scubasteve04 wrote:Is this possible?

Yes. What you can not do is take three termie squads with dedicated transports and three heavy support. So six is right out!

Templars and Blood Angels can both do better in that they can get Landraiders as transports for a whole bunch of squads.

Yeah, Black Templars can take Like 13 or 14 LRC's in a standard force org chart (assuming you have the points to buy em)

I think it was 14 - 6 troops, 2 HQ, 3 elite, 3 heavy?

Bangles get theirs cheaper than anyone though, and can take the better variants...

Scott-S6 wrote:

scubasteve04 wrote:Is this possible?

Yes. What you can not do is take three termie squads with dedicated transports and three heavy support. So six is right out!

Templars and Blood Angels can both do better in that they can get Landraiders as transports for a whole bunch of squads.

No 5 is max for Vanilla marines. Only one Assault Termie squad can take a DT LR and only one Tactical Termie Squad can take a DT LR

nosferatu1001 wrote:I think it was 14 - 6 troops, 2 HQ, 3 elite, 3 heavy?

Bangles get theirs cheaper than anyone though, and can take the better variants...

Yep, but if you get Belial,Captain of the Deathwing, you can throw the 3 Termie Squad limit out the window.

tedurur wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:

scubasteve04 wrote:Is this possible?

Yes. What you can not do[u] is take three termie squads with dedicated transports and three heavy support. So six is right out!

No 5 is max for Vanilla marines. Only one Assault Termie squad can take a DT LR and only one Tactical Termie Squad can take a DT LR

Like I said.

Undivided - which still only gives you 9 (6 troop, 3 heavy) - unless DW termis can be elite AND troop?

Scott-S6 wrote:

tedurur wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:

scubasteve04 wrote:Is this possible?

Yes. What you can not do[u] is take three termie squads with dedicated transports and three heavy support. So six is right out!

No 5 is max for Vanilla marines. Only one Assault Termie squad can take a DT LR and only one Tactical Termie Squad can take a DT LR

Like I said.

Lol, read it as "What you CAN do"

Undivided: As was already Stated in this thread Dark Angels cannot have DT Land Raiders; so taking Belial for additional Termie Squads does nothing for taking additional Land Raiders.

Current Maxes are:
Dark Angels: 3 LR(any Variant)
Space Wolves: 4 LR(any Variant)
Nilla: 5 LR(any Variant)
Black templar: 14 LR(11 Crusader, 3 Godhammer or Crusader)
Blood Angels: 17 LR(any Variant)

So BA are LR Kings, followed by BT, and DA are dead Last in ability to field Land raiders.

Kommissar Kel wrote:Undivided: As was already Stated in this thread Dark Angels cannot have DT Land Raiders; so taking Belial for additional Termie Squads does nothing for taking additional Land Raiders. .... and DA are dead Last in ability to field Land raiders.

I must be mixing 3e Codex: DA knowledge and 5e Codex:SM DedicatedTransport rules together. Although, SoloFalcon1138 simply claimed it
... and I'm unable to verify it because I allowed my 4e Codex: DA to ... Move On.
Ah, well.

After it was originally stated I scoured the "current" codex DA; it is all true, DW Termie squads do not have access, nor are their any special rules that grant them access. Which is a pity, they would be the most logical army to field them in great numbers(only in a DW list of course).

But then it makes Logical reasoning that they do not have access to great Stores of LR based on their Fluff, so whatever.

Brothererekose wrote:

Kommissar Kel wrote:Undivided: As was already Stated in this thread Dark Angels cannot have DT Land Raiders; so taking Belial for additional Termie Squads does nothing for taking additional Land Raiders. .... and DA are dead Last in ability to field Land raiders.

I must be mixing 3e Codex: DA knowledge and 5e Codex:SM DedicatedTransport rules together. Although, SoloFalcon1138 simply claimed it
... and I'm unable to verify it because I allowed my 4e Codex: DA to ... Move On.
Ah, well.

Dark Angel codex references:

p 77: force organization chart
p 82: Deathwing Terminator Squads do not allow for any transport options
p 88: Land Raiders are Heavy Support

therefore, Dark Angels are allowed 3 Land Raiders per standard army rules... odd considering we have an entire dedicated comapny of terminators with land raiders as transports according to the chapter organization chart...

Vanguard27 wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:

scubasteve04 wrote:Is this possible?

Yes. What you can not do is take three termie squads with dedicated transports and three heavy support. So six is right out!

Templars and Blood Angels can both do better in that they can get Landraiders as transports for a whole bunch of squads.

Yeah, Black Templars can take Like 13 or 14 LRC's in a standard force org chart (assuming you have the points to buy em)

it's 17 actually.

2 HQ DTs

6 Troop DTs

3 Elite DTs

3 FA DTs

3 HS LRs

Grey Templar wrote:

Vanguard27 wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:

scubasteve04 wrote:Is this possible?

Yes. What you can not do is take three termie squads with dedicated transports and three heavy support. So six is right out!

Templars and Blood Angels can both do better in that they can get Landraiders as transports for a whole bunch of squads.

Yeah, Black Templars can take Like 13 or 14 LRC's in a standard force org chart (assuming you have the points to buy em)

it's 17 actually.

2 HQ DTs

6 Troop DTs

3 Elite DTs

3 FA DTs

3 HS LRs

Where do you get the FA LRs from?

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:

Vanguard27 wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:

scubasteve04 wrote:Is this possible?

Yes. What you can not do is take three termie squads with dedicated transports and three heavy support. So six is right out!

Templars and Blood Angels can both do better in that they can get Landraiders as transports for a whole bunch of squads.

Yeah, Black Templars can take Like 13 or 14 LRC's in a standard force org chart (assuming you have the points to buy em)

it's 17 actually.

2 HQ DTs

6 Troop DTs

3 Elite DTs

3 FA DTs

3 HS LRs

Where do you get the FA LRs from?

I was wondering if the assault squads allowed for laid raiders (which they don't), but I found something rather odd. While Black Templars troops are allowed to have land raiders for transports, they are not allowed to seize objectives in them... peculiar...

Really? Where does it say that in the codex? That's certainly some interesting info.

It is in the transport Rules; Last Line says that they(LRCs) are never considered "Dedicated Transports" for the purposes of holding Objectives and Scoring Victory points; and are instead simply considered "vehicles".

Unfortunately the application of that line to any of the 5th edition Objectives rules only ends in that line being meaningless. VPs are gone, and any unit(a LRC as DT or not is it's own unit) gives up Kill points. The ability for Troops units within a transport to Claim objectives is in the transport vehicle rules now, not the DT rules. So, yes a troops unit inside a LRC can still use the transport's rules allowing that unit to Claim an objective while embarked.

Grey Templar: it really is 14; BT Assault marines have no Transport options at all, nor any options for removing their Jump-packs.

Kommissar Kel wrote:It is in the transport Rules; Last Line says that they(LRCs) are never considered "Dedicated Transports" for the purposes of holding Objectives and Scoring Victory points; and are instead simply considered "vehicles".

Unfortunately the application of that line to any of the 5th edition Objectives rules only ends in that line being meaningless. VPs are gone, and any unit(a LRC as DT or not is it's own unit) gives up Kill points. The ability for Troops units within a transport to Claim objectives is in the transport vehicle rules now, not the DT rules. So, yes a troops unit inside a LRC can still use the transport's rules allowing that unit to Claim an objective while embarked.

Grey Templar: it really is 14; BT Assault marines have no Transport options at all, nor any options for removing their Jump-packs.

With that clause at the end of the transport rules be meaning that LRC themselves are not meant to be troop selections there for if you disembark the squad inside of them you can't push the tank on to an objective and hold it without the squad inside.?

Which to me, makes sense, but that's me.

You cannot hold objectives with ANY vehicle, unless it states otherwise.

it's a holdover from 4th.


but you can hold objectives with a vehicle IF it is carrying a scoring unit.

Yup, it's a holdover from 4th. In 4th any unit could hold an objective except units under half starting strength, immobilized vehicles, ICs, or dedicated transports. Land Raiders in several codices (including BT) had a special rule that even if taken as a dedicated transport, they didn't count as one for purposes of holding objectives, so they were able to do so.

In 5th vehicles aren't scoring unless they have a specific rule making them so; they only one I can think of is Ravenwing Land Speeders taken as troops in an army with Sammael.

BA can only get 14. They can not take them as Heavies.

jbunny wrote:BA can only get 14. They can not take them as Heavies.

17; Devastator Squads can take them.

For got about the Devs. My bad.

Why are you guys arguing over supposed maximums when standard games are well under the points limit required to field all these raiders. You're talking apocalypse games here at which point the foc table goes out the window and so whether someone can field 14, 18 or more is irrelevant, you can't field them in a normal game as the points don't exist to spend on them.

Just a wild guess, but I'm going to go with "Because this is the rules forum. You know, the place where we investigate what is permitted by the rules".

There is a reason this is in YMDC and not Tactics or Army Lists.

edit: That being said, the conversation has gone OT from what the OP originally asked, and its usefulness has passed.