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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/25 22:37:15
Subject: Chapter Master of the Ghosts of Ormagron
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Esteemed Veteran Space Marine
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Stats
Name- Chapter Master Sevastian Falx
PTS-305
WS-7
BS-5
S-4(7)
T-4
I-5 (7)
A-5(7)
W-3
LD-10
SV-3+
Equipment
Talisman of Ormagron-This fabled relic of the chapter is known to give boost the power of great warriors. However any who falter in their belief of the emperor while wearing the talisman are struck down. This talisman boosts the Initiative, Attacks and strength of the wearer. But if the wearer falls back they are instantly removed from play.
Scythe of the war hounds-This is a Ctan phase blade that hails from the times of the heresy. Only those able to tame an Ormagron War Hound are allowed to wield it. No saves of any kind may be taken against it.
Special Rules
Unbreakable Will-Sevastian and his unit can re-roll any leadership tests he is forced to make.
Commander Of First Company-If Sevastian is in your army you can take one Elite unit as a Troop Choice.
Independent Character
Other Chapter Based Rules
Wargear
Talisman Of Ormagron
Scythe of the war hounds
Combat Knife
Bolt Pistol
Furious Charge
Power Armour
He is obviously absolutle pwnage in close combat. But no counteract this i have made him really easy to kill.
To put it simply he is a glass cannon.
I have other chpater based rules under his special rules because i plan to use my chapter as different marine codexes depending on what i feel like playing.
And comments would be great. Do you think he is overpowered?
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DT:90S++++G++M--B++I+pw40k08#+D++A+++/mWD-R++T(T)DM+
![]()  I am Blue/White Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today! <small>Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.</small>I'm both orderly and rational. I value control, information, and order. I love structure and hierarchy, and will actively use whatever power or knowledge I have to maintain it. At best, I am lawful and insightful; at worst, I am bureaucratic and tyrannical. " border="0" /> |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/26 01:44:55
Subject: Chapter Master of the Ghosts of Ormagron
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Gargantuan Grotesque With Gnarskin
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Sounds like a walking tank, but he basically has to sacrifice himself or fall back and die. Seems pretty balanced. Costs almost as much as a titan XD.
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The Imperium using advanced technology is like drinking Pepsi out of a Coke bottle.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/26 01:55:05
Subject: Chapter Master of the Ghosts of Ormagron
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Esteemed Veteran Space Marine
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Should i add some points and make him do 2D6 penertration? It would make sense having a giant scythe that ignores all sheilds and armour in the galaxy, that he could penertrate a tank pretty damn well.
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DT:90S++++G++M--B++I+pw40k08#+D++A+++/mWD-R++T(T)DM+
![]()  I am Blue/White Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today! <small>Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.</small>I'm both orderly and rational. I value control, information, and order. I love structure and hierarchy, and will actively use whatever power or knowledge I have to maintain it. At best, I am lawful and insightful; at worst, I am bureaucratic and tyrannical. " border="0" /> |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/26 03:16:41
Subject: Chapter Master of the Ghosts of Ormagron
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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ChocolateGork wrote:Should i add some points and make him do 2D6 penertration? It would make sense having a giant scythe that ignores all sheilds and armour in the galaxy, that he could penertrate a tank pretty damn well.
Yes. Also, bosst his cost up to 325 and give the poor guy an invulnerable save.
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There's just an acre of you fellas, isn't there? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/26 03:23:36
Subject: Chapter Master of the Ghosts of Ormagron
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Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine
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MekanobSamael wrote:ChocolateGork wrote:Should i add some points and make him do 2D6 penertration? It would make sense having a giant scythe that ignores all sheilds and armour in the galaxy, that he could penertrate a tank pretty damn well.
Yes. Also, bosst his cost up to 325 and give the poor guy an invulnerable save.
Invulnerable save? Heck no.
Mephiston is missing an invulnerable save for a reason.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/26 03:35:11
Subject: Chapter Master of the Ghosts of Ormagron
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Purposeful Hammerhead Pilot
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He's not THAT easy to kill. He's still T4, 3+ armor. You threw in this stipulation of him falling back and being insta-gibbed... but he's got rerollable LD10.
I mean, seriously, 7 attacks at S7 and I7 that ignore all saves? That's insane. Oh, and on the charge he's got 8 attacks at S8, I8. Name anything that can stand up to that.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/26 04:06:49
Subject: Chapter Master of the Ghosts of Ormagron
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Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
Australia
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My feedback is that his stat line is a bit too powerful for a boosted SC stat line. At the moment, it walks the fine line between OP and sort of ok and thus a lot of people would be fairly hesitant to allow you to use your character. I reckon you went a little overboard with some of these 7s. As a rule of thumb in terms of rules design, self killing in general doesn’t necessarily balance out a powerful ability as (a) the powerful ability is still apparent and can be exploited and (b) a smart player can minimise the weakness of the drawback (such as attaching a chaplain to the HQ’s unit thus allowing the player reap all of the benefits without any of the weaknesses!!!). Unbalanced characters are generally more trouble than they are worth and don’t necessarily show good rules design (Matt Ward is a good example of how not to write a codex). I have written down a more balanced rule set below. I’ve also targeted his Scythe as wargear which denies both regular and inv saves in CC haven’t been used since 4th edition and in general, people cried cheese when Daemon Princes in the 3.5 dex could achieve str 7 armour/inv save ignoring attacks (and they were right to call cheese as well!). Name- Chapter Master Sevastian Falx PTS-270 WS-7 BS-5 S-5(6) T-4 I-5 (6) A-5 W-3 LD-10 SV-3+/4++ Talisman of Ormagron: This fabled relic of the chapter is blessed by the will of the emperor and is known to boost the power of great warriors. Any who falter in their belief while wearing the talisman are struck down. This talisman increases the base strength of the wearer by 1 (included in profile above) and their Attack profile by 2 (included in profile above). However, if the wearer fails any leadership or moral tests, the wearer is immediately struck down by the will of the emperor and the model suffers a perils of the warp attack. Scythe of the war hounds: This is a Ctan phase blade that hails from the times of the heresy. Only those able to tame an Ormagron War Hound are allowed to wield it. This blade allows the wearer to ignore an opponents armour save OR invulnerable armour save in CC. Wearer must first nominate which type of armour save is affected at the start of close combat. For all intents and purpose, the Scythe counts as a standard CC weapon in CC and thus confers +1A for wielding 2 CC weapons. Special Rules Unbreakable Will: Sevastian and his unit can re-roll any leadership tests he is forced to make. Commander of the First Company: If Sevastian is in your army you can take one Elite unit as a Troop Choice. Other special rules: Furious Charge, Independent Character, eternal warrior, ATSKNF. Wargear: power armour, Talisman of Ormagron, Scythe of the war hounds, bolt pistol, iron halo, melta bombs, frag and krak grenades.
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This message was edited 10 times. Last update was at 2010/11/26 04:53:40
H.B.M.C. wrote: Goood! Goooood!
Your hate has made you powerful. Now take your Privateer Press tape measure and strike me down with all your hatred and your journey to the dark side will be complete!!!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/26 04:37:39
Subject: Chapter Master of the Ghosts of Ormagron
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Esteemed Veteran Space Marine
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That does seem better
Thank you
What about melta bombs on him
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DT:90S++++G++M--B++I+pw40k08#+D++A+++/mWD-R++T(T)DM+
![]()  I am Blue/White Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today! <small>Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.</small>I'm both orderly and rational. I value control, information, and order. I love structure and hierarchy, and will actively use whatever power or knowledge I have to maintain it. At best, I am lawful and insightful; at worst, I am bureaucratic and tyrannical. " border="0" /> |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/26 04:46:34
Subject: Chapter Master of the Ghosts of Ormagron
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Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
Australia
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Eh, why not. Increase his cost to 270 and add them to his wargear. I'll update my post with your input.
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H.B.M.C. wrote: Goood! Goooood!
Your hate has made you powerful. Now take your Privateer Press tape measure and strike me down with all your hatred and your journey to the dark side will be complete!!!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/26 18:47:04
Subject: Chapter Master of the Ghosts of Ormagron
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Purposeful Hammerhead Pilot
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ChocolateGork wrote:That does seem better
Thank you
What about melta bombs on him
I'm going to say he doesn't need 'em. He hits at S7 on the charge anyway
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/26 21:29:32
Subject: Chapter Master of the Ghosts of Ormagron
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Regular Dakkanaut
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let people have their invuls and hes fine, sounds like hes just got the specials of the necrons on a marine
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/26 23:32:03
Subject: Chapter Master of the Ghosts of Ormagron
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Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine
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Why not just make the Scythe a Master Crafted Relic Blade... it makes more sense treating it as that then giving him ANOTHER attack. And what's the point of having it only ignore one kind of a save? That's only going to be useful against Daemons and Wyches. I'd suggest emulating the weapon that Astrorath has. Relic Blade (str 6), ignores armor saves, re-roll successful invulnerable saves, and if you want your person to be a little fluffy make yours master-crafted.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/27 06:16:12
Subject: Re:Chapter Master of the Ghosts of Ormagron
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Esteemed Veteran Space Marine
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Name- Chapter Master Sevastian Falx
PTS-280
WS-7
BS-5
S-5
T-4
I-5
A-5
W-3
LD-10
SV-3+/4++
Talisman of Ormagron: This fabled relic of the chapter is blessed by the will of the emperor and is known to boost the power of great warriors. Any who falter in their belief while wearing the talisman are struck down. This talisman increases the base strength of the wearer by 1 (included in profile above) and their Attack profile by 2 (included in profile above). However, if the wearer fails any leadership or moral tests, the wearer is immediately struck down by the will of the emperor and the model suffers a perils of the warp attack.
Scythe of the war hounds: This is a Ctan phase blade that hails from the times of the heresy. Only those able to tame an Ormagron War Hound are allowed to wield it. For all intents and purpose, the Scythe counts as a master crafted Relic Blade that once per game, in any players turn can be activated by the owning player. It then ignores saves of any kind. This ability lasts until the end of the next players turn.
Special Rules
Unbreakable Will: Sevastian and his unit can re-roll any leadership tests he is forced to make.
Commander of the First Company: If Sevastian is in your army you can take one Elite unit as a Troop Choice.
Other special rules: Furious Charge, Independent Character, eternal warrior, ATSKNF.
Wargear: power armour, Talisman of Ormagron, Scythe of the war hounds, bolt pistol, iron halo, melta bombs, frag and krak grenades.
Sevastian can be equipped with artificer Armour for +30 points.
OR Be mounted on a bike for +50 points.
How about this?
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/11/27 07:44:03
DT:90S++++G++M--B++I+pw40k08#+D++A+++/mWD-R++T(T)DM+
![]()  I am Blue/White Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today! <small>Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.</small>I'm both orderly and rational. I value control, information, and order. I love structure and hierarchy, and will actively use whatever power or knowledge I have to maintain it. At best, I am lawful and insightful; at worst, I am bureaucratic and tyrannical. " border="0" /> |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/28 05:21:54
Subject: Chapter Master of the Ghosts of Ormagron
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Irked Necron Immortal
On the train headin down to delicious town
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Shrike325 wrote:I mean, seriously, 7 attacks at S7 and I7 that ignore all saves? That's insane. Oh, and on the charge he's got 8 attacks at S8, I8. Name anything that can stand up to that.
A C'tan!
Theyd just suck his little weapon right up "disarming" him...now are there any rules for disarming?
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loota boy wrote:Ah, I see you have run into the great Mephiston, Lord of Cheese! Not to worry, that block of chedder can be tied up easily with 30 boyz, can get his ass handed to him in a match with Ghazzy, and can be squigified with Zogwort. How satisfiying would that be? ....Squigfiston, Lord of gak...
grendel083 wrote:"Dis is Oddboy to BigBird, come in over."
"BigBird 'ere, go ahead, over." "WAAAAAAAAAGGGHHHH!!!! over"
"Copy 'dat, WAAAAAAAGGGHHH!!! DAKKADAKKA!!... over" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/28 06:57:18
Subject: Chapter Master of the Ghosts of Ormagron
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Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
Australia
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@ChocolateGork Your updated ruleset is still horribly broken. Any ability that ignores all saves in CC, no matter how localised is OP period. You have a character that has 7 str 8, master crafted weapon attacks on the charge that ignores all saves. This allows your character to kill anything in the game and this is a giant NO NO! You should go back to the drawing board and ditch the idea of a super saiyan character (super saiyans are not in 40k!). Here are some pointers when designing a good, balanced character. 1. Your character already gets bonus strength from Furious Charge and his base 5 strength (giving him str6 on the charge). He does not need any other sources of bonus strength. Remember, a human space marine's stat line barely goes higher than a 4-5 across the board without conditional equipment like relic blades. Monstrous creatures and characters of Chaos are pretty much the only characters who can go higher. At the end of the day, your character is a human, space marine chapter master, not a Chaos Daemon Prince/monstrous creature (and thus should not have a statline that is greater than this). 2. Your character has a powerful CC weapon that ignores regular saves and a powerful stat line. Your character does not need the ability to ignore inv saves as well, he is plenty powerful as already. Any such ability that ignores all saves ignoring pretty much makes your character the strongest in the game (and currently your character is so that is a sign of bad rules design). 3. Your character does not need a bike or artificer armour as well. With special characters, you need to provide something as well as sacrifice something. Special characters tend to have specialised roles as well. The ability to swap out armour or ride a bike essentially makes your character "good at everything". Pick a role and bade your character around it. Do you want your character to be a CC specialist? Do you want your character to be a mobile support character? Do want your character to be flexible at all roles but master of none? Remember pick a role but don't make your character perfect at all roles. 4. Lastly, make your character point cost appropriate for regular 40k games. Anything more than 275 points is too expensive for a regular 40k game and automatically makes your character an Apoc character. At the moment, you have an Apoc character that wouldn't perform well against a lot of the things in Apoc games. It's easy to justify all powerful wargear upgrades by increasing the character's cost but that not the way to do it (good rules design is the art of working within a small points limit). I would personally recommend you design a character, no more powerful than a 250 point character (something like Ragnar Blackmane is an excellent example of a 240 point character).
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2010/11/28 22:59:29
H.B.M.C. wrote: Goood! Goooood!
Your hate has made you powerful. Now take your Privateer Press tape measure and strike me down with all your hatred and your journey to the dark side will be complete!!!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/29 06:15:59
Subject: Re:Chapter Master of the Ghosts of Ormagron
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Esteemed Veteran Space Marine
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Name- Chapter Master Sevastian Falx
PTS-265
WS-6
BS-5
S-5
T-4
I-5
A-3
W-3
LD-10
SV-2+/3++
Armour of the Giants- This gigantic set of terminator Armour has a power supply almost triple the size of normal terminator armour. This Armour allows Sevastian to wield the Hammer of Ormagron and grants him a 3+ invulnerable save. However it means that Sevastian can only embark on super heavy transports and when he does he counts as 4 spaces. He can still deeps trike but if he does his squad will always scatter.
Hammer Of Ormagron-The hammer of Ormagron is a Huge Multi-Barreled plasma cannon so large that Sevastian requires both hands to use it even in his terminator armor. A Large power blade is mounted on the bottom of the gun.
It has the following Profile.
Type-Heavy 3, Blast
S-5
AP-2
Range-30
In close combat the weapon can be swung with incredible force. It has the ability to cut through anything whether vehicle or creature.
In close combat Sevastian counts as being armed with a 2 handed power sword that does 2d6 penetration, grants Sevastian +1 Strength (Included in profile) and strikes at initiative 1
Special Rules
Commander of the First Company: If Sevastian is in your army you can take one Elite unit as a Troop Choice.
Other special rules:Independent Character, ATSKNF, Eternal Warrior
Wargear: Terminator Armour, Talisman of Ormagron, iron halo, frag and krak grenades.
What about this?
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DT:90S++++G++M--B++I+pw40k08#+D++A+++/mWD-R++T(T)DM+
![]()  I am Blue/White Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today! <small>Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.</small>I'm both orderly and rational. I value control, information, and order. I love structure and hierarchy, and will actively use whatever power or knowledge I have to maintain it. At best, I am lawful and insightful; at worst, I am bureaucratic and tyrannical. " border="0" /> |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/29 06:59:52
Subject: Chapter Master of the Ghosts of Ormagron
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Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
Australia
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Assuming the Talisman functions the same way as the previous ruleset and grants him +1Str and +2A, your character is still broken. I should ask up front, since I noticed that this character may only embark on a super heavy transport, is this an Apoc character? If not than this character is broken. His terminator armour grants him relentless and thus your character is able to fire 3 AP2 template blasts at 30”range whilst moving at full speed a turn. 5 strength 7 attacks on the charge, in conjunction with 2d6 for armour penetration pretty much makes your character able to kill any vehicle. Eternal warrior with a 2+/3++ save makes your character pretty much indestructible. His 3 shot plasma cannon makes your character able to single-handedly wipe out entire squads. Your character is no where near worth 265 points nor is appropriate for a standard 40k game. I suggest you take note of my handy hits at rules design in my earlier post. Pick a role and stick with it, don’t make your character good at all roles or able to “kill everything in 40k”. Since you’re also having issues with point costing and balance, you should base your point costs off the wargear costs in the codices. For example: 3++ save = 25 points Power weapon that adds +1 to strength = 25 points Master Crafted bonus = 15 points Special Ammo/combi weapon = 10 points Heavy Flamer = 10 points I also suggest you base your character off an existing SM character like Vulkan or Lysander and changing their wargear a tiny bit (such as swapping out Lysander’s SS for a Master crafted heavy flamer at no cost) Automatically Appended Next Post: Since you're aiming for a character that is a CC beast. Do not give him 2D6 penetration. In conjunction with the abilities I reckon you will give your next revision, this would make him OP. I suggest equipping your character with a combi-melta if you want some anti tank (do not give him a melta gun or multi melta!!).
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2010/11/29 08:52:04
H.B.M.C. wrote: Goood! Goooood!
Your hate has made you powerful. Now take your Privateer Press tape measure and strike me down with all your hatred and your journey to the dark side will be complete!!!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/29 10:45:13
Subject: Re:Chapter Master of the Ghosts of Ormagron
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Esteemed Veteran Space Marine
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I didn't mean the talisman to still be there. The reason i put the part in about the super heavy transport is if the character was ever used in a game that allows IA or the battle mission that allows the space marine player to use a thunderhawk.
Name- Chapter Master Sevastian Falx
PTS-255
WS-6
BS-5
S-5
T-4
I-5
A-4
W-3
LD-10
SV-2+/3++
Armour of the Giants- This gigantic set of terminator Armour has a power supply almost triple the size of normal terminator armour. This Armour allows Sevastian to wield the Hammer of Ormagron and grants him a 3+ invulnerable save. However it means that Sevastian can only embark on super heavy transports and when he does he counts as 4 spaces. He can still deep strike but if he does his squad will always scatter.
Hammer Of Ormagron-The hammer of Ormagron is a Huge Multi-Barreled plasma cannon so large that Sevastian requires both hands to use it even in his terminator armor. A Large power blade is mounted on the bottom of the gun.
It has the following Profile.
Type-Heavy 3, Blast
S-5
AP-2
Range-30
In close combat the weapon can be swung with incredible force. It has the ability to cut through anything whether vehicle or creature.
In close combat Sevastian counts as being armed with a 2 handed power sword that grants Sevastian +1 Strength (Included in profile) and strikes at initiative 1
Special Rules
Commander of the First Company: If Sevastian is in your army you can take one Elite unit as a Troop Choice.
Other special rules:Independent Character, ATSKNF
Wargear: Terminator Armour, frag and krak grenades.
No more talisman or eternal warrior or 2d6 penetration.
But 1 more attack and ten less points
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/11/29 10:48:35
DT:90S++++G++M--B++I+pw40k08#+D++A+++/mWD-R++T(T)DM+
![]()  I am Blue/White Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today! <small>Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.</small>I'm both orderly and rational. I value control, information, and order. I love structure and hierarchy, and will actively use whatever power or knowledge I have to maintain it. At best, I am lawful and insightful; at worst, I am bureaucratic and tyrannical. " border="0" /> |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/29 17:11:35
Subject: Chapter Master of the Ghosts of Ormagron
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Focused Dark Angels Land Raider Pilot
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Finally someone posting proposed rules to be helped in designing them instead of simply showing how good he is in making broken stuff. I liked very much your first idea but I have to admit that the statline was teribly high. This incarnation is very interesting: finally a shooty SM charachter!!! To keep the concept of an alien artifact why don't you give him a strange c'tan firing device? I'd suggest: Points 230/265 (in this range... I'm not sure... maybe 250 is appropriate but I don't know how to give a cost to the Inv ignoring weapon) Ws 6 Bs 5 S 4 T 4 W 4 I 5 A 3 Sv 2+/4+ Ld 10 Equipment. -Armour of the Giants: a gigantic set of Terminator Armour giving extreme power to Sevastian.This armour confers a 4+ invulnerable save and Feel no Pain to the wielder. but the wielder occupy 3 places in any transport. -Scite of Omargron: This ancient weapon is a relic of a long forgotten alien civilization. Only sevastian can use it thanks to the giant power generators of his armour. The Scite can be fired with the following profile: S5 AP4 Heavy 6 rending In addition the scyte can be used in close combat: It counts as a power weapon that force al successfull invulnerable saves made against it to be rerolled -Unbreakable: Sevastian is an Eternal Warrior and can reroll all failed Ld tests. -independent character, ATSKNF -Chapter master: you can take the honour guard -Chapter tactics: whatever you want! possibly it makes something a scoring unit (not make it a troop choice) and maybe make stubborn the army... but I don't know the BG so.... Sooooooo.... I'd remove the bonus to strenght, it seems unappropriate to me. The Terminator armour not allowing him to use a transport but bestowing a 3++ save seemed out of sync (not broken but risking to make the character too much different from a "normal" IC) so 2+/4++ Feel no pain The C'tan weapon looked fun so i'd keep it S4 but ignore everytime all saves in CC and mimic a ubergauss rifle in fire. I'd keep eternal warrior because someone a ghost PK can kill isn't worthy of being chapter master (apart from Dante but he's not made to be though). with such a gigantic armour 4 wounds seem compulsory to me... only 3 attacks anyway... Maybe add Furious charge to give him a boost to S and I for at least 10 points more because S5 ignoring ALL saves is very.... killing a lot of stuff??? It seems balanced to me: he's not as powerful as Abaddon in CC but he has also a strong ranged attack... he's in line with Logan Grimnar and Marneus Calgar ( a minor chapter master shouln't be, but we don't care) because he lacks an ability boosting the surrounding squads... This is my idea that probably isn't perfect... for me you should avoid to make it : A lot of S5 attacks character... it would be banal where this chapter master have the potential to be very nice!!!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/11/29 17:16:03
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/29 23:01:53
Subject: Chapter Master of the Ghosts of Ormagron
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Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
Australia
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@ChocolateGork Ok. Since your character is restricted to IA/Apoc, this leaves you with some wiggle room. The removal of EW and the talisman now makes the character more or less point cost appropriate however I still don’t like the plasma cannon. Any 3 shot AP2 template weapon should be restricted to heavy support options. The weapon isn’t appropriate for your character either (as it can single-handedly demolish an entire unit which is a bad thing). That being said, I will suggest some alternate, balanced “big guns” that you can use in place of the multi shot plasma cannon instead. 1. Ordinary plasma cannon. More damage but only 1 template worth of damage and the chance to scatter more than makes up for the cost. Do not make this twin linked. 2. Assault cannon. The high AP value and 24" range of the weapon makes this perfectly balanced within the post costs. Do not make this twin linked. 3. Auto cannon. Another good choice. The high AP value fits in with the model. Do not make this twin linked. 4. Twin linked heavy flamer. Perfectly balanced and a dangerous weapon. Replace the plasma cannon for 1 of the 4 weapons above and your character is good to go for a 40k game.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/11/29 23:04:42
H.B.M.C. wrote: Goood! Goooood!
Your hate has made you powerful. Now take your Privateer Press tape measure and strike me down with all your hatred and your journey to the dark side will be complete!!!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/30 02:14:26
Subject: Chapter Master of the Ghosts of Ormagron
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Esteemed Veteran Space Marine
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I just meant i put the rules in, incase i use him in a apoc game. or a standard game that allows imperial armor. But he is meant mainly for use in standard games.
And if i replace his gun with an assault cannon then he becomes near worthless. Especially when you consider i could swap him out for a 5 man terminator squad with an assault cannon. These guys would be able to put out and take more damage both at range and close combat. Automatically Appended Next Post: Name- Chapter Master Sevastian Falx
PTS-255
WS-6
BS-5
S-4
T-4
I-5
A-3
W-3
LD-10
SV-2+/4++ FNP
Armour of the Giants- This gigantic set of terminator Armour has a power supply almost triple the size of normal terminator armour. This Armour allows Sevastian to wield the Hammer of Ormagron and grants him feel no pain. However it means that Sevastian can only embark on super heavy transports and when he does he counts as 4 spaces. He can still deep strike but if he does his squad will always scatter.
Hammer Of Ormagron-The hammer of Ormagron is a Huge Gatling Plasma Gun so large that Sevastian requires both hands to use it even in his terminator armor. A Large drill with a disruption field is mounted on the bottom of the gun.
It has the following Profile.
Type-Heavy 8
S-5
AP-2
Range-24
In close combat the weapon can be swung with incredible force. It has the ability to cut through anything whether vehicle or creature.
In close combat Sevastian counts as being armed with a 2 chain-fist that always hits last. regardless of initiative.
Special Rules
Commander of the First Company: If Sevastian is in your army you can take one Elite unit as a Troop Choice.
Other special rules:Independent Character, ATSKNF, Feel no Pain
Wargear: Armour of the giants, frag and krak grenades, Hammer of Ormagron, Iron Halo
How about now? less devastation from the ranged attack and its more representative of the fluff of the weapon. No more 3++ but feel no pain. The weapon has 2d6pen but always hits last.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also 1 less atack
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/11/30 03:02:00
DT:90S++++G++M--B++I+pw40k08#+D++A+++/mWD-R++T(T)DM+
![]()  I am Blue/White Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today! <small>Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.</small>I'm both orderly and rational. I value control, information, and order. I love structure and hierarchy, and will actively use whatever power or knowledge I have to maintain it. At best, I am lawful and insightful; at worst, I am bureaucratic and tyrannical. " border="0" /> |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/30 03:39:23
Subject: Chapter Master of the Ghosts of Ormagron
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Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
Australia
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No. The numbers still don't add right. This character is in fact more powerful than your previous version. I can probably ball park cost him at around 350-400 points in his current form. Anyway he is OP and I will break it down why 3++ -> Exchanged for 4++ and FNP. Fair and equal point cost exchange Heavy 3 Blast - > Exchanged for Heavy 8 and 2d6 penetration. Unequal exchange and highly OP Highly OP. The exchange from 3 blast templates to heavy 8 means that your character is extremely deadly accuracy and a higher statistical killing rate than the older weapon. The 24” range does not mitigate this. Also your character has now been given 2d6 penetration for free and doesn’t pay points cost for it. In regards to your comment about assault cannons, you appear to be a bit confused about the point costs between terminators/troops and the HQ. The point cost for the HQ is always more costly than other units and quite frankly other units always appear to be a better buy on a surface level value. However, the excess points you pay for a HQ is for the flexibility, not wound equivalency and here is why. Your previous suggestion (not your current one) for example. You get a 250 point character that has a 3++ save, a heavy weapon that he can move and shoot with and strength 6 power weapon attacks at initiative. This character is extremely flexible and can support any unit through heavy firepower or through close combat (and your character is very good at both). Essentially any unit that accompanies the HQ benefits from an extra heavy weapon and extra close combat muscle. Also your character is an independent character and has the added benefit of abandoning his unit and hiding in cover to provide cover fire whilst the unit assaults something. When you add all these up, 250 points makes him a steal. You are also underestimating the power of the 3 heavy ranged weapons I suggested. All 3 of those weapons are “man sized” and can fulfil quite a lot of hurt on the battlefield. I also thing you should ditch the idea of giving your character a man sized “ultimate weapon”. I dare say an 8 shot AP2 cannon could barely fit on an rhino/leman russ let alone be carried by a chapter master at ease. The cost alone for the 8 shot weapon would be 100 points minimum, let alone the excess point cost penalty to giving it to a non standard unit/ HQ. I will highly suggest , get your previous ruleset, give him 1 of the 3 heavy weapons I suggested and he is good to go. Assuming this, you’d get a perfectly balanced character (although it walks the line between OP and balanced a little finely). Any modification to this with a super heavy weapon or 2d6 and it more or less makes the ruleset OP, even when sacrificing stuff. Automatically Appended Next Post: I wrote a ruleset for a Chaos Space Marine SC yesterday. I suggest you browse through it to get ideas on how a balanced character profile looks. As a rule of thumb, all wargear and statistics should not exceed previously established limits.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/330783.page
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2010/11/30 03:46:04
H.B.M.C. wrote: Goood! Goooood!
Your hate has made you powerful. Now take your Privateer Press tape measure and strike me down with all your hatred and your journey to the dark side will be complete!!!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/30 04:16:17
Subject: Chapter Master of the Ghosts of Ormagron
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Furious Fire Dragon
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With armor that big he should be slow and purposeful.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/11/30 04:16:24
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/30 04:24:45
Subject: Chapter Master of the Ghosts of Ormagron
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Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
Australia
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I'd say as far as fluff goes and armour of the giants being triple the size of terminator armour, it does sound a little ridiculous now that I think about it. I’d probably suggest rewording it to something like “This large archaic suit of terminator armour is a relic to the chapter. It is larger than a normal suit of terminator armour and allows the Chapter Master to wield the Hammer of Ormagron”.
I also highly suggest you don’t physically model the character 3 times larger than an SM terminator otherwise people may start mistaking it for a Daemon Prince/Monstrous Creature.
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H.B.M.C. wrote: Goood! Goooood!
Your hate has made you powerful. Now take your Privateer Press tape measure and strike me down with all your hatred and your journey to the dark side will be complete!!!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/30 06:26:13
Subject: Re:Chapter Master of the Ghosts of Ormagron
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Esteemed Veteran Space Marine
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@candy.man-Thanks for all your advice so far and as i am having trouble with the point costing im going to start again and base off of codex point costs
This is the base stat line of a captain
Name- Chapter Master Sevastian Falx
PTS-
WS-6
BS-5
S-4
T-4
W-3
I-5
A-3
LD-10
SV-3+
These are the point costs for his upgrades
Eternal Warrior (Space wolf Codex)
Terminator Armour (Space marine codex)
+1 wound (calculated by adding up darnath lysanders ability's and wargear counting his ability's as 50 points (being nice here) then taking whats left as his extra wound)
Counts one elite as troops(not much to go on here)
flame-storm cannon
Master crafted chain fist (new and old space marine codex's)
So his stats turn into
Name- Chapter Master Sevastian Falx
PTS-275
WS-6
BS-5
S-4
T-4
W-3
I-5
A-3
LD-10
SV-2+/4++
Wargear
Armor Of Giants-A huge set of terminator armor capable of carying larger weapons and fuel and energy supply's on it. It allows Sevastian to carry a flame-storm cannon. However it is cumbersome and makes Sevastian always go last in close combat (regardless of initiative) and makes him take up 4 spaces inside transport vehicles.
Hammer of Ormagron- A huge drill with a disruption field that dates from the heresy. It counts as a master crafted chain-fist.
Crispy-This odd named device is the prize possession of Sevastian. In fact the only reason his troops have to doubt him is that he sometimes talks to the weapon, this has convinced some of troops he is a bit crazy. It is a massive flamer capable of burning or melting all but the hardiest of foes. It has the same rules as a flame-storm cannon.
Other Wargear- Krak Grenades, Iron Halo
Special Rules
Commander of the First Company: If Sevastian is in your army you can take one Elite unit as a Troop Choice.
ATSKNF
Independent character
Do you think he is still OP?
Have i way way undercosted the flamestorm?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
And in my previous post i said his power supply was three time that of a normal terminator. Not that the armor itself was three times that of a normal set of terminator armor
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2010/12/01 02:22:35
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![]()  I am Blue/White Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today! <small>Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.</small>I'm both orderly and rational. I value control, information, and order. I love structure and hierarchy, and will actively use whatever power or knowledge I have to maintain it. At best, I am lawful and insightful; at worst, I am bureaucratic and tyrannical. " border="0" /> |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/30 06:41:44
Subject: Chapter Master of the Ghosts of Ormagron
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Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
Australia
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Very Good job this time. Your character is more or less complete. I only have small criticisms below.
The flame storm cannon is very appropriate for the character and is only an AP3 weapon which is good. The draw back for the weapon, being the superheavy transport requirement balances the cost out. All wargear is appropriately costed which is good. The master crafted chainfist is fully costed in his profile which is good. My only issue is that his total point cost comes out at actually 295 points and his elites slot ability isn’t costed (and to be fair, it is very hard to cost this).
I suggest you scrap his +1 wounds (this reduces his point cost by 20). Add +10 for the troop slot ability (I costed this at 10 as a scoring dread, sternguard or TH/SS terminator unit is pretty powerful) and this leaves his total point cost at 275, which is a nice round number and equal with Abaddon the despoiler.
Also I noticed a small typo in the armour of giants entry. It says he always goes last but the character goes last anyway as he carries a chainfist. Remove this sentence as it is a bit redundant.
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H.B.M.C. wrote: Goood! Goooood!
Your hate has made you powerful. Now take your Privateer Press tape measure and strike me down with all your hatred and your journey to the dark side will be complete!!!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/30 07:10:10
Subject: Chapter Master of the Ghosts of Ormagron
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Esteemed Veteran Space Marine
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Its not redundant if the enemy has Initiative1. So power fists and other weapons that reduce to I1 will attack before him.
And i did account for the cost of his elites to troops ability. I made it twenty points because i mean for him to actually make an elite choice take the spot of a troop choice on the FOC and gain scoring and any other benefits as well.
And done he now has one wound less.
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DT:90S++++G++M--B++I+pw40k08#+D++A+++/mWD-R++T(T)DM+
![]()  I am Blue/White Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today! <small>Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.</small>I'm both orderly and rational. I value control, information, and order. I love structure and hierarchy, and will actively use whatever power or knowledge I have to maintain it. At best, I am lawful and insightful; at worst, I am bureaucratic and tyrannical. " border="0" /> |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/30 07:22:14
Subject: Chapter Master of the Ghosts of Ormagron
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Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
Australia
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If you intend for his to attack last, even against other power fists, I suggest to advise this in brackets. Something like "will always go last in close combat (even against enemy attacks at I1. Servan will always go last) ". Rules like this, although simple can be confusing. Since I take it you’ve now costed his elite->troop slot ability at 20 points, his total cost actually totals to 295.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/11/30 07:23:12
H.B.M.C. wrote: Goood! Goooood!
Your hate has made you powerful. Now take your Privateer Press tape measure and strike me down with all your hatred and your journey to the dark side will be complete!!!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/30 07:51:09
Subject: Chapter Master of the Ghosts of Ormagron
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Esteemed Veteran Space Marine
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This is him.
Name- Chapter Master Sevastian Falx
PTS-275
WS-6
BS-5
S-4
T-4
W-3
I-5
A-3
LD-10
SV-2+/4++
Wargear
Armor Of Giants-A huge set of terminator armor capable of carying larger weapons and fuel and energy supply's on it. It allows Sevastian to carry a flame-storm cannon. However it is cumbersome and makes Sevastian always go last in close combat (regardless of initiative) and makes him take up 4 spaces inside transport vehicles.
Hammer of Ormagron- A huge drill with a disruption field that dates from the heresy. It counts as a master crafted chain-fist.
Crispy-This odd named device is the prize possession of Sevastian. In fact the only reason his troops have to doubt him is that he sometimes talks to the weapon, this has convinced some of troops he is a bit crazy. It is a massive flamer capable of burning or melting all but the hardiest of foes. It has the same rules as a flame-storm cannon.
Other Wargear- Krak Grenades, Iron Halo
Special Rules
Commander of the First Company: If Sevastian is in your army you can take one Elite unit as a Troop Choice.
ATSKNF
Independent character
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DT:90S++++G++M--B++I+pw40k08#+D++A+++/mWD-R++T(T)DM+
![]()  I am Blue/White Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today! <small>Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.</small>I'm both orderly and rational. I value control, information, and order. I love structure and hierarchy, and will actively use whatever power or knowledge I have to maintain it. At best, I am lawful and insightful; at worst, I am bureaucratic and tyrannical. " border="0" /> |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/11/30 08:36:26
Subject: Chapter Master of the Ghosts of Ormagron
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Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
Australia
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Perfect. I can find no fault. I like how the wording of the profile has been cleaned up. He is now ready for any game of 40k in my book.
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H.B.M.C. wrote: Goood! Goooood!
Your hate has made you powerful. Now take your Privateer Press tape measure and strike me down with all your hatred and your journey to the dark side will be complete!!!
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