All bike army

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**commissar80**

Has anyone have any luck with an all space marine bike army between 1500-2000 pts, competitively speaking?

**ofcBOOMstick**

Yes, but only with 1-2, 5 man bike Squads w/ Plasma Gun, Meltagun, Powerfist and Attack Bike w/ Multi-Melta. Usually in my Vulkan or 'Vanilla' Boom Brigade.

**commissar80**

what kind of an army list did you have with the 2 five man bike units in it? I am a little more interested in an all bike army at least everything slot taken as space marine bikes but the heavy slots, maybe take 3 vindicators or predators.

**OverwatchCNC**

You should search on the forums. There are a few really good examples of competitive bike builds. Generally speaking you don't take Khan but a normal Captain on bike. Something interesting I saw was a list like this. Bear in mind I didn't see it used but the list looks interesting.

HQ:
Captain Bike RB SS
Shrike

Troops:
4x 4 Bikes w/2MG PF+AB w/ MM

Fast:
Assault Squad w/2 flamers PF

Elite:
8 Assault Terminators 4LC 4TH/SS w/ LRC Dedicated Transport

All the units have fleet thanks to Shrike, fleeting bikes can really suck for armies that can't hold up in h2h like Guard.

**Lord PoPo**

I don't think this is a great idea... Bikes aren't that great at CC until you factor in all of the firepower they dish out in the previous shooting phase... once you rule that out they're basically just assault marines with one less attack each but a higher toughness... not that great imho

**OverwatchCNC**

Lord PoPo wrote:I don't think this is a great idea... Bikes aren't that great at CC until you factor in all of the firepower they dish out in the previous shooting phase... once you rule that out they're basically just assault marines with one less attack each but a higher toughness... not that great imho

I certainly agree that this isn't great but simply interesting. I find that sometimes playing an interesting, unexpected list can actually pay off and break the cut an paste monotony of playing net lists. You are definitely right about bike squads not being great in CC which is why most people making a bike list rarely take massive numbers of bike squads. Unfortunately because imo bikes look great. If you want a bike squad that can hit in CC you need to play SW and take the SW Bike Deathstar, but I digress...

**Lord PoPo**

Sorry about that, I didn't realize that you were suggesting something with the intention of being different more than merely competitive.

As for the OP, another problem with all bike armies arises when your opponent places an objective in the middle of an larger than 6" diameter piece of terrain... I think you'll always neeed units other than bikes in order to fully support them...

**commissar80**

You guys ruined a wet dream. I guess maybe 2 small squads in rhinos or razor backs could be used to get to those guys or objectives sitting in terrain that the bike can't get too. What about the the land speeder storm as a transport for scouts too hold objectives. Any one ever use storm before?

**OverwatchCNC**

Lord PoPo wrote:Sorry about that, I didn't realize that you were suggesting something with the intention of being different more than merely competitive.

As for the OP, another problem with all bike armies arises when your opponent places an objective in the middle of an larger than 6" diameter piece of terrain... I think you'll always neeed units other than bikes in order to fully support them...

No worries, you bring up an excellent point about terrain that I had forgotten. This is probably one of the best reasons why ALL bikes is a bad idea while using a few tacs in Rhinos/Drop Pods/Razorbacks along side a few bike squads is a more common build. It is much easier to keep objectives "out of reach" of the bike squads especially if you have multi-leveled terrain like we have at our FLGS.

**Sanctjud**

At 1500 yes, they are quite competitive as an all biker force.
"out of reach" objectives are not a huge issue because if you play an all bike army, your only choice is to shoot them. It's not great but it's easy to decide if you are gonna go for it or not.

At higher points, I would agree you'll 'need' other elements in the list for support...but it doesn't necessarily mean footslogging body bags.

Yes, there are plenty of resources if you can suffer through the search function here in Dakka.

**Lordhat**

OverwatchCNC wrote:

All the units have fleet thanks to Shrike, fleeting bikes can really suck for armies that can't hold up in h2h like Guard.

Shrike does nothing for an all bike list; Bikes cannot run.

**striderx**

OverwatchCNC wrote:All the units have fleet thanks to Shrike, fleeting bikes can really suck for armies that can't hold up in h2h like Guard.

Since when can bikes fleet (maybe I m missing something)? You want to explain in case you are giving someone the wrong advice?

**Lord PoPo**

striderx wrote:
OverwatchCNC wrote:All the units have fleet thanks to Shrike, fleeting bikes can really suck for armies that can't hold up in h2h like Guard.

Since when can bikes fleet (maybe I m missing something)? You want to explain in case you are giving someone the wrong advice?

Unless there's a new FAQ saying as such

Page 53

"Bikes cannot run in the shooting phase"

But the FAQ possibility is possible... Lord knows I don't know as much as I should about current rule interpretations

**Calvinus**

The Kahn's Moondraken bike has fleet, so at least that one bike can fleet if nothing else. Personally, I think all bikes could fleet if they are given this ability by Shrike (in exchange for their combat tactics, of course -- a tough call). I think the FAQ is trying to say that bikes cannot use the "Run!" rule normally, where they move d6 in the shooting phase and forfeit their assault phase. If I read the rules correctly, they would still be able to gain fleet from Shrike's chapter tactics.

As for competitive all-bike lists, I've read a lot of threads on the issue and the consensus seems to be that bikes are quick and tough to kill and a very solid army but from their strength of being all bikes so comes their weakness: they're all bikes and there's not much finesse you can pump into spam of any kind. Someone also has already touched on how unsuited bikes are for close combat and I agree. Power weapons and fists are great weapons of opportunity but when you buy a bike you're buying a T5 and 12" movement BUT ALSO you're buying twin-linked bolters (helps shooting, not assault) and the Relentless special rule (helps shooting quite more than assault since the bolters are rapid fire weapons).

I would recommend all bikes for fun games and maybe a local tourney, but I've never heard of them winning a Games Day event. On the other hand, you can add fluff-compatible units like speeders of any type and assault marines and start fleshing out a great fighting force. I'm still waiting to see someone use Kahn and a land raider full of hammernators to Outflank an enemy unit

It's just my advice, but it seems to be the more competitive lists use the synergy of different unit types to excel.

**notabot187**

An all biker army played seriously requires a few things. First: A high enough points level to support the required units. Second, a good weapon selection, it is tempting to take all melta, but you still need to kill infantry. Lastly, biker command squads. Tough, good in CC, good gear allowance, and expensive as hell to field. But worth it if built properly.

**jdjamesdean@mail.com**

imo theyre extremely fragile, and overpriced
a couple of us tried to create a bike army ... just doesnt pan out

**davidgr33n**

"Bikes cannot run in the shooting phase", RAW, but why would you want to? Bikes can turbo-boost: go up to 24" and get a nice 3+ cover save if they go over 18" (point to point). The rules are very clear about turbo-boosting, stating that no "voluntary action" (includes "run") can be used. Even for Khan to run and fleet he is limited to moving 12", then running, and finally charging. And even if Shrike could be used to give bikers fleet, they would be in the same situation as Khan. The problem is that bikers dont like to get into close combat (unless its a biker command squad), so there goes the rationale for bikers to fleet.

**Lordhat**

Calvinus wrote:The Kahn's Moondraken bike has fleet, so at least that one bike can fleet if nothing else. Personally, I think all bikes could fleet if they are given this ability by Shrike (in exchange for their combat tactics, of course -- a tough call). I think the FAQ is trying to say that bikes cannot use the "Run!" rule normally, where they move d6 in the shooting phase and forfeit their assault phase. If I read the rules correctly, they would still be able to gain fleet from Shrike's chapter tactics.

Yes, the bikes gain fleet from Shrike. However, since they cannot run, fleet does nothing for them. Shrike does not convey the ability to run to any units that don't already have it.

**Azrael the Departed**

What some people seem to have missed is that the rules for Moondraken states that it can both Run and has the Fleet USR. Regular bikes can not run so while they "gain" fleet from Shrike its totally useless.

**Sanctjud**

Ok, rules aside:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:imo theyre extremely fragile, and overpriced
a couple of us tried to create a bike army ... just doesnt pan out

I think the post previous to yours answers why it may not pan out:

notabot187 wrote:An all biker army played seriously requires a few things. First: A high enough points level to support the required units. Second, a good weapon selection, it is tempting to take all melta, but you still need to kill infantry. Lastly, biker command squads. Tough, good in CC, good gear allowance, and expensive as hell to field. But worth it if built properly.

It's not so much that they are 'fragile', it's the model count. They comparitively tougher than the other troop choices in the SM codex, with the higher toughness, speed, and turbo saves. They can lurk in Reserves and have a longer reach onto the board when they come in.

Again, it is true, bikers dont' like combat... but the issue is, you should be initiating any combats you find yourself in, and you should be opening fire on the way in.

So basically, bikers use combat to clean up or hold something up. In addition, support options like Captain/Libby help immensely.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
In addition, do not feel you 'have' to take Khan....he plays the biker list differently, rather than 'better'.

**Illumini**

I have a biker list. It is a competitive army, mainly because of speed and very good anti-tank capabilities. It is however not a forgiving army, any mistakes you make will hurt you more than if you played a horde or mech army because of your low numbers. I used my bikers in a tournament and ended up in 7th place. I could have placed better, but was ill on the first day and made some mistakes that cost me a better placing in the end. In my other games with the list, I've also won most of my games. What has given me the most trouble is fast assault armies and the avatar (damn immune to melta/flamers dude)

There are also some counters to bikes out there, SW's, SM's and eldar can all make your poor bikers take many many dangerous terrain tests. IG and BA have psy-powers that can push you off the board with your 3d6 fallback, doom in a pod can be a real pain etc. There are many disadvantages to not having any transports.

My sig has a tourney report from the tournament I used my bikers if you want to see them in play. I know sanctjud also has several biker reports. We play quite different lists, so it should be interesting to take a look at the differences.

There is at least one more poster that plays bikers, and he plays a different way from both me and Sanctjud, can't remember his nick at the moment, but he usually also adds something to these threads. (note that none of us use Khan though)

This shows that there are several ways of playing all biker lists, and all of them are viable. Bikers have weaknesses, but they are competitive. The army is also a lot of fun to play. You will become a speed junkie

**Sanctjud**

Speed Kills... but not the Dark Angel way

.

Off the top of my head:

Hmm, I know AF uses bikers too, but goes with Vulkan, so that is another way to play it.
There's

Illumini, I think you may be thinking of Tri.
Cromwest and Rurouni Benshin run bikers too.

**Lordhat**

I ran all bikes several times, before I had to sell MY SM's to pay bills. I also ran Vulkan. Khan just doesn't bring enough to the table for his points.

**Grey Templar**

i don't have much expierience with bikes, but i belive you use them as a way of surgically getting shooting attacks on target at the right time and then getting away before the enemy can react.

T5 is pretty resiliant to small arms fire(meaning only really high Str weapons will pose a threat)

Command squads are good on bikes too i hear. give them a few CC weapons and some Special weapons and you have a FNP, T5, squad that dishes out hurt in CC and ranged.

**Flavius Infernus**

Yeah, effective bike lists I've seen use normal captains and one or two command squads on bikes for HtH assault power. The troop bike units are stripped down and equipped with melta for shooting to support the assaulty command squads.

Shrike would allow a bike unit (or command squad, but not another character) to infiltrate for a turn 1 charge. But since you need a bike captain to unlock bike troops, and any choice other than Khan for the second HQ means you lose combat tactics for Shrike's useless-for-bikes fleet ability, it's not worth it IMO.

**Grey Templar**

Shrike works better with Assault Terminators. it's just Evil

especially with 3 full squads of them

**Sanctjud**

How did this get to being about 30 Assault Termies when the title is clearly 'All Bike Army'?

On topic, here is a linky to my thoughts on bikers, though take it with a grain of salt, it doesn't float everyone's boat

http://www.40konline.com/community/index.php?topic=182311.msg2228713#msg2228713

**jestyr**

I say put a Capt. on a bike, Vulkan in a LRC with some hammer termis. Load up on meltas and flamers....

Vul'KHAN Doublewing list. :p

**Illumini**

At higher pts levels, Vulkan goes extremely well with bikers. Meltas and flamers will be your weapon of choice, and vulkan + some termies could add some cc power, something biker lists often lack.

**Lord PoPo**

Sanctjud wrote:

Again, it is true, bikers dont' like combat... but the issue is, you should be initiating any combats you find yourself in, and you should be opening fire on the way in.

So basically, bikers use combat to clean up or hold something up. In addition, support options like Captain/Libby help immensely.

In addition, do not feel you 'have' to take Khan....he plays the biker list differently, rather than 'better'.

QFT

In addition, Land Raiders (which I suppose to be included in the continuation of the Vulkan+terminators+bikes=death equation) make for great sources of mobile cover.

You can think of them as LOS blocking terrain pieces that can move almost as fast as your bikes.