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Can they take an honor guard if not specified in their rules? I know Calgar specified he can take three and the Command squad entry say the named Captain can, but I see nothing about the named Chapter Masters.

The Command Squad entries tell you which special characters can take one.

Pedro Kantor is the only SC besides Calgar that can get Honour Guard.

Poor Vulcan gets nothing.

Let me amend that really quick; The Only Named Chapter Masters in the Codex are Calgar and Pedro.

Vulcan; while master of his chapter, is a "Forgefather"

TedintheShed wrote:Can they take an honor guard if not specified in their rules?

No.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well, certainly not in tournaments, but you can in casual play with the prior consent of your opponent.

Kommissar Kel wrote:Vulcan; while master of his chapter, is a "Forgefather"

He is no such thing. Vulkan He'stan was a Captain, who then became the "Forgefather." The Forgefather can be a Captain, the Chapter Master, or just a badass battle brother, who sets aside their duties to search forever for the Primarch's artifacts.

shealyr wrote:

Kommissar Kel wrote:Vulcan; while master of his chapter, is a "Forgefather"

He is no such thing. Vulkan He'stan was a Captain, who then became the "Forgefather." The Forgefather can be a Captain, the Chapter Master, or just a badass battle brother, who sets aside their duties to search forever for the Primarch's artifacts.

Well Vulkan technically IS the Salamanders Chapter Master, just not the one in the codex. I'm of course referring to their Primarch who shares the same name. Tu'Shan is merely Prometheus' regent who acts as CM in Vulkan (Primarch's) absence.

I keep forgetting He'Stan is just a Captain, and Tu'Shan is their CM.

Y'know you never here much about Tu'Shan(unless there are some BL books out there that feature him, I don't really read the BL stuff).

Didn't double check the fluff, just the rules.

Poor Vulcan gets nothing.

RaW He'Stan is a Space Marine Captain and can therefore take a command squad regardless of being named (or not) in the list. But most people owuld play that he can't. But he's certainly no CM so definitely no Honour Guard...

KK - Firedrake or the first manders novel talks about Tu'shan, mainly Firedrake.

Addionally actual RAW means Vulkan is NOT a Captain. Special Fling RAW, which includes reading fluff as actual in game rules, says otherwise.

Believe which ever one you wish - the one based on written rules, or the one based on fluff pretending to be rules.

FlingitNow wrote:

Poor Vulcan gets nothing.

RaW He'Stan is a Space Marine Captain and can therefore take a command squad regardless of being named (or not) in the list. But most people owuld play that he can't. But he's certainly no CM so definitely no Honour Guard...

I suggest you read page 132 of the SM codex again. He'stan is the only one NOT mentioned, thus cannot take a Command Squad.

Believe which ever one you wish - the one based on written rules, or the one ignoring sections that Nos doesn't want to count as rules.

Fixed for you until you show me any evidence that the section of rules that states Vulkan is a Captain is fluff and not rules. I'm guessing you can't...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

I suggest you read page 132 of the SM codex again. He'stan is the only one NOT mentioned, thus cannot take a Command Squad.

Yes but RaW he doesn't have to be mentioned neither do the other special character Space Marine Captains as they already have permission from the first part of the sentence. RaI is pretty clear he can't take one but pure RaW he can.

FlingitNow wrote:

Believe which ever one you wish - the one based on written rules, or the one ignoring sections that Nos doesn't want to count as rules.

Fixed for you until you show me any evidence that the section of rules that states Vulkan is a Captain is fluff and not rules. I'm guessing you can't...

How exactly does one work out the rules for Trade and negotiation for information?

Also that same paragraph tells you that he no longer commands a Company. In fact the entirety of his fluff pretty much Flat tells you he is no longer a Captain, but rather the Forgefather of the Salamanders.

So even with your Fluff=Rules(and subsequent auto-loss against Orks); he is still no longer a Captain and therefore cannot take a command squad.

P.S.; the Special Characters are not "Space Marine Captains" They are no where near Identical in game terms, be that through Name, Statline, or gear options; So the inclusion of special mention as to which Special characters can take the Command squad is very necessary.

So even with your Fluff=Rules(and subsequent auto-loss against Orks)

So please state where it says that you auto-lose to Orks in any rules section. Most of what is said at the top of a unit entry (the section you define as fluff but the rules do not) has no direct in game effect. This does not stop it from being rules, just rules that do nothing and there are plenty of them in 40k.

Also that same paragraph tells you that he no longer commands a Company.

But it doesn't tell you he is no longer a Captain... It is the previous paragraph that tells you he is a captain. He is no longer commander of the 4th company but it very much states that he is currently Captain He'stan.

the Special Characters are not "Space Marine Captains" They are no where near Identical in game terms, be that through Name, Statline, or gear options; So the inclusion of special mention as to which Special characters can take the Command squad is very necessary.

They are however Space Marines Captains. Just as a Space Marine captain with Artificer armour has different rules to a space marine captain in Terminator armour a space marine captain that is Sicarius follows another rules set too but is still a space marine captain. The list changes the permission given in the first part of the statement in no way it just clarifies it (hence the "including" rather than using "also"). Vulkan's ommision strongly implies the intention was for him to not be able to take a command squad but it does not change the RaW.

No, he is Forgefather. His rank of Captain is no longer there - otherwsie your understanding of the word "Captain" is lacking.

Still, everyone knows you are now just trolling this as you believe you are making a "point". You arent.

Fluff /= Rules, as rules have an ingame effect. THat's how you know they are rules, after all. Sorry that you dont appear to understand this.

shealyr wrote:

Kommissar Kel wrote:Vulcan; while master of his chapter, is a "Forgefather"

He is no such thing. Vulkan He'stan was a Captain, who then became the "Forgefather." The Forgefather can be a Captain, the Chapter Master, or just a badass battle brother, who sets aside their duties to search forever for the Primarch's artifacts.

Could a Techmarine be a Forgefather?

FlingitNow wrote:But it doesn't tell you he is no longer a Captain... It is the previous paragraph that tells you he is a captain. He is no longer commander of the 4th company but it very much states that he is currently Captain He'stan.

Really?

So your hypothesis is that "relinquished his old titles and duties" actually means "relinquished his old titles and duties other than the rank of captain and despite no longer commanding a company he has a company command squad following him around anyway"?

Oh and looking at the codex right now it does not list him as being able to take a command squad like it does all the other SC other than tigurius and Cassius. So he cant take a command squad. Because for the purpose of the rules he inst a captain

Also, he isn't a captain. All the characters eligible to take command squads have "captain" under their names - Vulkan doesn't.

He is specifically described as giving up his old titles.

That does make sense. They wouldnt want to have an entire company on hold until their commander died. Imagine if the chapter master became FF but still retained his duties

Yep - I'm off on a quest, back in a few hundred years.

Meanwhile the cheques aren't getting signed, the servitors are all on strike, no-one's approved the requisition orders for more bolt rounds, etc....

Shhh! You're using logic and actually reading the fluff to counter Flings "point".
That's cheating!

Page 132 states exactly who can take a Command Squad unit: units named Space Marine Captain and several named characters. This list does not include Vulkan. Any further discussion is fluff. He probably is still an honorary captain, but that is completely irrelevant to the RAW.

You could always take Vulkan and a Space Marine Captain. You can then join both ICs to the SMCs Command Squad. More expensive but then you can trick it out the way you want.

Homer

Scott-S6 wrote:Yep - I'm off on a quest, back in a few hundred years.

Meanwhile the cheques aren't getting signed, the servitors are all on strike, no-one's approved the requisition orders for more bolt rounds, etc....

Lol

"Crap an entire splinter fleet and we only have one magazine of bolter rounds. Now.. how are we going to decide who ge""DIBS!" "F&*K! thats not fair im not giving to you". "Brother it is the fairest way". (Grumbles and hands the magazine over to the Dibser)

well fluffwise while searching for the 9 he can use any part of the salamanders to do so ... this wouldnt stop at a command squad but as previously stated ... RAW he cannot take it

Wow...um, okay. Thanks for that.

Really?

So your hypothesis is that "relinquished his old titles and duties" actually means "relinquished his old titles and duties other than the rank of captain and despite no longer commanding a company he has a company command squad following him around anyway"?

"and, at the close of the 41st millenium, it is a burden borne by Captain He'stan."

It is stating he is now captain He'stan not that he was Captain He'stan before becomingthe forge father but that he is Captain He'stan.

No, he is Forgefather. His rank of Captain is no longer there - otherwsie your understanding of the word "Captain" is lacking.

He is a SM Captain as the rules tell me he is. I don't need to understand what Captain means in anyway for the rule to work. A SM Captain can take a command squad.

Is Vulkan a SM Captain? Check.

Guess what that means...

Fluff /= Rules, as rules have an ingame effect. THat's how you know they are rules, after all. Sorry that you dont appear to understand this.

And in the in-game effect of the rule quoted above is it allows He'stan to take a command squad. Granted most of the rest of that paragraph all the ones that follow it until his stat line have no in-game effects so can be ignored. But RaW is RaW he is a Captain and can take a command squad RaW.

Seriously - you are now trolling in an attempt to prove your erroneous and entirely irrelevant "point"

And it still isnt working.

Fluff /= Rules. Vulkan is NOT a captain, RAW

Fluff /= Rules. Vulkan is NOT a captain, RAW

You're trolling as you've not backed up your claim he isn't a Captain raw with any rules. I have a rule saying he is a Captain I've referenced it and now even quoted it, do you have a rule saying:

a) He isn't a Captain.
b) He specifically can not take a command squad
c) Some thing that states my rule is fluff as you claim.

Either give a page reference to one of the above or a quote if you prefer or admit I'm correct. Any other action is trolling on your part.

Its actually inside the small box that contains rules for the command squad. It lists every captain that can take a command squad.

Vulkan is not listed.

They listed everyone else but not him (except for tigurius and cassius) dont you think that means something?

Fling, you'd have a point if he were still an active Captain. He's not the Captain of the 4th anymore.

Big troll under da bridge ... He'Stan is no longer a captain for he is the forgefather and quests for the 9