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@Fling

I normally lurk and never post. But sir your incorrect. I know you've read it. But page 130, where you find the points listing and such he has no "Captain" title. And on 132 where you the find the Command squad and who can purchase one, he is excluded. As per SM codex RAW, he can not have a command squad.

They listed everyone else but not him (except for tigurius and cassius) dont you think that means something?

Yes it is obvious what it means, but that has no bearing on RaW.

Fling, you'd have a point if he were still an active Captain. He's not the Captain of the 4th anymore.

You'd have a point if I ever claimed he was. However I've posted the rule that states he is a Captain if it is so obvious that he's not a Captain why can't anyone find a rule that states this?


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I normally lurk and never post. But sir your incorrect. I know you've read it. But page 130, where you find the points listing and such he has no "Captain" title. And on 132 where you the find the Command squad and who can purchase one, he is excluded. As per SM codex RAW, he can not have a command squad.

So adamantium mantle does nothing? It has no rules on page 130 therefore by your logic it does nothing. Not all of Vulkan's rules are on page 130. In fact most of them are on page 93.

He is not excluded on page 132 unless you'd like to post the rule that states Vulkan can not have a command squad. I have one that states all Captains have one. I have a rule stating Vulkan is a Captain. Notice how the rule states including when listing the Special Character Captains which tells you it is not giving further permission just clarifying. This has all been stated elsewhere in the thread so please read the thread before posting.

Though having said that there are a lot of people on this thread just stating arguments that have already be refuted...

You have no rule, you have some fluff text.

You also have fluff text stating he gave up all his previous titles, so no, even your "rules" are contradictory.

You have no rule, you have some fluff text.

You also have fluff text stating he gave up all his previous titles, so no, even your "rules" are contradictory.

Troll much?

Notice how you lack any sort of rules in your argument. The "fluff text" said he gave uyp his previous titles and became forgefather, noticve the past tense in both of those. However the current tense describes him as "Captain He'stan".

So prove my "fluff text" is fluff text, or show me a rule that supercedes or contradicts mine.

/Feeding the troll

Fluff is fluff. Rules are rules. You keep quoting FLUFF and trying to pretend, and make others believe, that these are rules.

You know you are being ridiculous, or at least I hope you do.

Bye.

You keep quoting FLUFF and trying to pretend, and make others believe, that these are rules.

Please show me where it is written that the rules I'm quoting are fluff and can be ignored?

You know you are being ridiculous, or at least I hope you do.

No just following RaW, I thought you'd like it .

Making up rules /= Following rules.

Bad troll is bad.

Making up rules /= Following rules.

Come now this is trolling at its worst. Not once have you refuted any of the rules I've posted. How is ignoring what is written because you don't like it following RaW?

FlingitNow wrote:

Making up rules /= Following rules.

Come now this is trolling at its worst. Not once have you refuted any of the rules I've posted. How is ignoring what is written because you don't like it following RaW?

You haven't posted rules.

You've posted your own connections that you have drawn. The rules do not specifiy that the named character Vulkan *can* take a command squad, so he can't.
It's really...really, that easy.

The model's name does not include Captain, nor is he listed as a Captain in the army list...in fact, nowhere except the fluff text does it call him so.
So, RAW he cannot. You can't change the text, and the text doesn't support you.

FlingitNow wrote:

Making up rules /= Following rules.

Come now this is trolling at its worst. Not once have you refuted any of the rules I've posted. How is ignoring what is written because you don't like it following RaW?

For the final time.

You have NOT quoted any rules. As you keep removing this from your selective quotes I will repeat it to you: Fluff /= Rules.

Your inability to tel the difference is telling.

You have NOT quoted any rules. As you keep removing this from your selective quotes I will repeat it to you: Fluff /= Rules.

Your inability to tell the difference is telling.

Who decides what is rules and what is fluff? You have nothing stating what I've posted is not rules.

You haven't posted rules.

You've posted your own connections that you have drawn. The rules do not specifiy that the named character Vulkan *can* take a command squad, so he can't.

Yes they do as I've already posted they say that any SM Captain can take a command squad.

The model's name does not include Captain, nor is he listed as a Captain in the army list...in fact, nowhere except the fluff text does it call him so.

Again I've already posted the rule that states he is a Captain.

But according to fluff he can call upon any resources and was forced to set down all duties as a captain. Why would he have a command squad when he can easily have a much superior honor guard? It doesn't allow him to have an Honor guard, in fact he cant even call an orbital bombardment from a ship he could easily commandeer. But he cant and He isn't a space marine captain, RAW he is a Vulkan. And a Vulkan isn't listed as being able to take a command squad.

Oh, this must be the reason LotD are so expensive. Their entry states quite clearly that

"The bolters carried by the Legionares, though in aspect no different to those borne by other Space Marines, discharge flaming projectiles that can pierce the strongest armour. Nothing, not chaos chosen nor concrete bastion not boiling lava can stay the spectral wrath of the Legion"

Clearly this means that LotD must have str10 AP1 bolters?

and are immune to melta and flamer weaponry

Not to mention the tactical Terminators.

"Terminators are invincible, they are unstopable and they never yield"

Pretty neat for 200pts I must say

Telion can "deliver a killing shot far beyond the official range".


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FlingitNow wrote:a) He isn't a Captain.
b) He specifically can not take a command squad

You want negative rules? This is a permissve ruleset - you need to produce rules that say he can, not the other way around.

But to Flings mind he has done so.

Everyone else realises this is nonsense, but apparently that isnt enough.

I would make for a interesting game, taking every word in the rule books and codexes as rules.


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"space marines strike with the precision and fury of a thunderbolt".

So they're BS3 like a Thunderbolt? I'm confused.


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Chapter Master -
"Hundreds of years of experience as Scout, Brother Marine and Captain"
So he can take a command squad? It doesn't say he isn't a captain anymore and the command squad entry doesn't say he can't.

The deffguns that lootas have says that they "spell a violent death to anyone in its crosshairs". So I roll to hit and if it's a hit, whatever I'm shooting at dies? I like this way of interpreting the rules!

EDIT: Warbosses also got a lot better. "When the battle is raging, these monstrous and all-powerful Orks give full rein to their battlelust, charging into the ranks of the enemy and slaughtering everything in their path." So any model that comes in base contact with the Warboss is instantly killed?

FlingitNow wrote:rules section

So exactly which sections are rules and which aren't?


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Ixias wrote:EDIT: Warbosses also got a lot better. "When the battle is raging, these monstrous and all-powerful Orks give full rein to their battlelust, charging into the ranks of the enemy and slaughtering everything in their path." So any model that comes in base contact with the Warboss is instantly killed?

Now, don't be silly. It says "in his path". So you declare where he's going and draw a line, like with JotWW.

Fluff counts as rules? So, is that like, all fluff? Cause would kind of suck for Space Marines according to Lexicanum: "Space Marines have very organised daily routines including combat training, prayer and indoctrination sessions with very little free time. This lends itself well to the disciplined and monastic nature of the Space Marines."

So from this I gather that any SM model must do his daily chores at the start of a game before he can begin fighting and Brother Hats always forgets to do the dishes.

According to fling there are "rules sections". Not sure which those are since he also said "Who decides what is rules and what is fluff?" implying that it's all rules.

According to fling there are "rules sections". Not sure which those are since he also said "Who decides what is rules and what is fluff?" implying that it's all rules.

Yes it is RaW all rules. Nowhere does it tell us what is and isn't rules therefore it is all rules as we have no permission to ignore any of it. However none of the examples given above actually relate to an in-game effect so they don't do anything. Saying the LotD bolters are S10 AP1 doesn't actually relate to anything in the text, as not once do they say that the bolters are either S10 or AP1.

"Hundreds of years of experience as Scout, Brother Marine and Captain"
So he can take a command squad? It doesn't say he isn't a captain anymore and the command squad entry doesn't say he can't.

It also doesn't state that he is a Captain "now" unlike the Vulkan entry.

The Vulkan entry doesn't state he is a Captain "now." The only mention of the word Captain on the page is historical, referring to He'stan's position before he took up the quest of the Forgefather.

The only mention of the word Captain on the page is historical, referring to He'stan's position before he took up the quest of the Forgefather.

Please read the thread I've quoted the section that states he is a captain now.

The rules say all SPACE MARINE CAPTAINS gets a command squad. A space marine captain is a unit in the codex. It never says a Vulkan gets a command squad thy are two entirely different units. It then states other different units that can have command squads. Vulkan is not listed. The reasoning of fluff would be that all the others actually have access to a company to draw a command squad from. Vulkan does not. He is frequently completely out of contact with the salamanders.

The only "rule" that was quoted is setting up "rules" like "had served. . .He'stan relinquished his old titles and duties. . .he no longer commands a company of his own" and then lstings for what is available to "Vulkan He'stan".

I have never seen anyone want to claim otherwise anymore than they woud take Old Adversary on the Swarmlord or use the Warp Lance with Doom of Malan'tai--and those are expressly named as special versions of the standard creature. Or whatnot.

/boggle

The rules say all SPACE MARINE CAPTAINS gets a command squad. A space marine captain is a unit in the codex. It never says a Vulkan gets a command squad thy are two entirely different units.

A Space Marine Captain is a unit in the codex it is also a term for a Captain that is a Space Marine. So which is the rule talking about? Fortunately by using the word "including" to describe that Lysander et al can take a Command Squad rathether anlso they aaretling you they mean any Captain that is a Space Marine.

It then states other different units that can have command squads.

Read it again it does no such thing as I've lined out above and before in this thread.

Vulkan is not listed.

He does not need to be.

The reasoning of fluff would be that all the others actually have access to a company to draw a command squad from. Vulkan does not. He is frequently completely out of contact with the salamanders.

Irrelevant to RaW.


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The only "rule" that was quoted is setting up "rules" like "had served. . .He'stan relinquished his old titles and duties. . .he no longer commands a company of his own" and then lstings for what is available to "Vulkan He'stan".

Read the thread again. How is saying he is a Captain now got anything to do with setting up those things you state.

I have never seen anyone want to claim otherwise anymore than they woud take Old Adversary on the Swarmlord or use the Warp Lance with Doom of Malan'tai--and those are expressly named special versions of the standard creature.

Not in the codex. They are later described as such in the FAQ, however OA is not something you are allowed to take on all Hive Tyrants. It is something the in the specific entry for a Hive Tyrant.

FlingitNow wrote:

The only mention of the word Captain on the page is historical, referring to He'stan's position before he took up the quest of the Forgefather.

Please read the thread I've quoted the section that states he is a captain now.

And I'm telling you that section doesn't state he is a Captain. It states that the quest of the Forgefather went to (then) Captain He'stan, who subsequently gave up his title, position, and even name.

It states that the quest of the Forgefather went to (then) Captain He'stan, who subsequently gave up his title, position, and even name.

But this is not what it states. It states that the quest of the Forge father is currently being performed by Captain He'stan. There is not one past tense in the sentence:

"This is a quest ha down through the Forgefathers, the greatest heroes fo the Chapter, and at the close of the 41st Millenium, it is a borden borne by Captain He'stan." Emphasis mine.

No mention of the past or the then or former Capatain. All current tense.