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Ok, so im wanting to use the colussus, but the grifion is pretty much the same, just get to re-roll scatter and its shorter range.
Are either of these any good? id like to use them in a tourny after christmas aginst nids, meqs, and tau.

They're absolutely NOT the same. Same strength, yes, but that's where the similarities end. The Colossus is AP3 and ignores cover, meaning that any MEQs out in the open that get hit most likely go down like baby seals to a polar bear. While the Colossus has a worse minimum range, it has a whopping 240" max range. This comes at a cost, as the Colossus is much more expensive, clocking in at almost 2 Griffons. The pros for the Griffon is a smaller minimum range and the ability to reroll scatter, making it more reliable against hordes, but it doesn't ignore area cover like the Colossus.

What if i put a squad of a colossus, and a squad of two griffens?

Or would 2 squads of one or two Colossus's be beter?

The colossus is way better than the griffon, which is why it costs twice as much. Yes, the griffon gets to reroll, but not ignoring cover and not breaking 3+ saves means the actual damage output is much lower.

Which you take is determined by what your army needs more of - anti-light infantry, or anti-MEq.

Colossuses, colossusi? Big freakin mortars and manticores make meqs cry

The comparison should be between a single Colussus and a unit of two Griffons. Those are a more comparable points range. The 2 Griffons will have the advantage of not only hitting more often, but also hitting more models and doing more wounds. I calculate it at slightly more than 2-1 in favor of the pair of Griffons for doing wounds. This is pretty good. The more you make the opponent roll dice, the better chance you have for a roll of 1,1,2,1 to come up.

The Colussus removes cover saves from the target which is nice for a clumped unit of Long Fangs in trees, however they will not be clumped and the Colussus will miss more than it hits.

so why not do this

1 collussus + griffin in a squad
1 collusus in squad of its own.

Now you target a squad with the squad of arite's and you aim aorund there with griffin to clean up. then the other collusus hits the enemy spawn? You still need line of sight right?

ImpGuardPanzies wrote:so why not do this

1 collussus + griffin in a squad
1 collusus in squad of its own.

Now you target a squad with the squad of arite's and you aim aorund there with griffin to clean up. then the other collusus hits the enemy spawn? You still need line of sight right?

Nope, both fire indirect barrages exclusively.

Where is the rule for that? my friends will want proof and i did not see it. does it hapen to effect scatter distance or effect?

Your guard codex will tell you which weapons are prohibited from firing directly.

The rest can be found on page 32 of your rulebook.

Even if the combination of griffon and other worked as described (for ranging the shot), it never seemed to be worth the trouble the few times I've seen it attempted.

The griffon would land close to or on the target, leaving you hoping you roll a -hit- or perfect direction to tag the enemy with the bigger gun, at which point the griffon's wounds provide wound allocation opportunities, thus diminishing your overall damage output.

Don't mix guns in squadrons.

So to get a multiple barage i would still need 2 or 3 of the same Artie in a squad right?

dont use the griffon. i have tested these in friendly games and just couldnt get tehm to be evvective. realy, normal mortars are just as effective as the griffon. go with bassis and collussus.

Ya i also tried these. I out the griffen by itself, the collossus in a seperate squad on its own, and a 2 heavy wpns squads of mortars. Collossus racked up more pts than both mortars and griffon combined. So after christmas i will be buying 3 bassalisk sets (making them into coluss. This way i can have a multi barage. Good idea? or waste?

waste imo, maybe 1 but not 3 due to their minimum range

any smart player be too close for you to fire by turn 2-3 and in turns 1-2 they're mainly in transports

so would bassalisks be a better option? at stregnth 9? but then minimum range is bad. So that leaves medusas at streagnth 10, it wrecks everything. but it cant fire inderectly.....

Terminus wrote:Even if the combination of griffon and other worked as described (for ranging the shot), it never seemed to be worth the trouble the few times I've seen it attempted.

The griffon would land close to or on the target, leaving you hoping you roll a -hit- or perfect direction to tag the enemy with the bigger gun, at which point the griffon's wounds provide wound allocation opportunities, thus diminishing your overall damage output.

Don't mix guns in squadrons.

This.

And basilisks have a 36" minimum, unless they're firing directly, in which case there is no minimum.

It's always best to start thinking about a basilisk as a Leman Russ that you shave 25 points and 2 AV off of. From there, if you want, you can shoot it indirectly at things on the other side of the board.

The answer would be a manticore. it still wrecks everything and can fire both direct/indirect.

we usualy play on a board with legnth of 50inches. So if i did a choke point and made them go into open area, hit directly with 2-3 medusas, and had mortar teams (2x) behind 2 seperat pieces of impassable terrain that you cant draw line of sight through, it would be a bloody explosion?? or bad idea? if i knew of a way to get a picture of what im thinking of...i would. sorry.

If you can get players in choke points it'd be amazing, unfortunately there are lots of outs with deepstriking,infiltrating, skimmers, outflanking, and so so many more

At most I would only ever recomend 1 artillery piece.

However I'm a fan of special weapon spamming meltas and plasmas

So no artilery, just a crap load of mortar teams and melta vets?

AlmightyWalrus wrote:The Colossus is AP3 and ignores cover, meaning that any MEQs out in the open that get hit most likely go down like baby seals to a polar bear

I just wanted to say, this is amazing. Thank you ^^.

You are forgetting Range as most people do when discussing Colossus vs Griffen

48" compared to anywhere on the table = Colossus always wins when played in real games. The downside is you pay for the "Win" button.

ImpGuardPanzies wrote:So no artilery, just a crap load of mortar teams and melta vets?

Don't take everything to extremes. A mixture of artillery and other things can go a long way.....and melta vets are the one unit that every player and his mother have planned for. They dominated for such a long time that everyone's got a way to counter them by now.

for just heavy suport im thinking

Hydra autocannon squad
2x hydras

1 artillery squad
1 bassalisk
1 medusa

1 manticore rocket launcher

Don't mix artillery like that. I'd say go for 2 Basilisks, as you've got AT with your manticore, and Anti-Light vehicle with the Hydras. What you need now is antie MEQ, and anti medium vehicle that the Bassie gives you as opposed to the pure anti tank the Medusa gives.

Ill probibly deepstrike in 2 vendettas in seperate squads. and that leaves me with

Hvy suport

2x bassalisks- 1 squad

1-2x medusas (anti meq at close range?)

manticore

Fast attack

2 seperate squads of vendeddas (no infintry)

mrdabba wrote:The answer would be a manticore. it still wrecks everything and can fire both direct/indirect.

I am actually somewhat meh about this. The amount of area terrain you use will greatly influence whether the Manticore or the Colossus is the better fit. I actually find that my Colossus performs better than my Manticore, but realize that I am getting tons of blast templates from the 2 LRBTs that are in front of the Colossus.

This is off topic, but the exicutioner plasma cannon, would you fire it like a barrage? or just a blast template and everyone under it gets 3x hits?

It's 3 seperate blast templates. Roll Scatter for each one.