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I've heard all the good stuff about 140pt missile launcher fangs. But I wondered, has anyone considered using the heavy bolter long fangs? At 115 points it is really cheap and can put down a sickening amount of firepower at long range. Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.

They are very useful.

I don't (completely) spam Missile Launchers I like something a bit different.

At the moment I run 3 HB and 2 PC in one pack and 3 ML and 2 LC in another.

I find that it gives me the flexibility to deal with different sorts of armies.

I do. I use them to destroy MEQs, TWC, Terminators and what not. Its all about wound saturation and target blur.

I run one configuration of them with 3xHB 2xLC. I take my wounds on the HB guys first to retain the ability to split fire with the two LC's. Aside from that unit I tend to stick with spamming missile launchers.

4xHB's 1 PC in one unit and 3xHB's 2xML in another. If I have points for a 3rd pack its usually another 4 HB 1 PC again.

I love HBs and similar weapons. You place enough shots down range something has got to give.

The reason you see people use 5 missles is for the Duality.

you can shoot 5 krak or 5 frag. thats AT And Anti horde all in one package. you cant do that with 5 Heavy bolters.


if you want to run an unoptimized list then feel free to specialize the long fangs units. run 5 heavy bolters and 5 lascannons. or a mix of both in 2 units. I'd stay clear of plasma cannon fangs. they get expensive fast and for an Anti heavy infantry weapon your better off with Grey hunters with 2 plasma guns. they get them really cheap.

Play to win -> ML
Play for fun -> HB
Play to win AND for fun -> ML

I'd have to agree with Destroyer here.

Missile Launchers are adequate for what you'd want a Heavy Bolter for, with the added benefit of being able to down transports and monsters like its cool.

HB Long fangs fill a meta role. If you're meta consists of mostly MEQs, They perform better than the ML.

They're fun, but you're unlikely to get the same mileage out of them as you will out of missile launchers against anyone other than orks or horde bugs.

Yuber wrote:HB Long fangs fill a meta role. If you're meta consists of mostly MEQs, They perform better than the ML.

Aren't most MEQ armies Mechanized though?

How is the HB going to help with that?

I usually run three or four missles, and a heavy bolter, but this is more because i like my HB models than actual effectiveness. The HB just is not versitle as the ML, and in an all comers list I have to go with the options that give me, well more options.

Yuber wrote:HB Long fangs fill a meta role. If you're meta consists of mostly MEQs, They perform better than the ML.

I disagree with that. MLs are better for MEQ. They are better for almost everything.

The issue with HBs is that the ML blast template will hit as many or more guys. The HB averages 2 hits, the blast template can get as many as 9 or more.

Mixing weapons in a pack sounds good, but the squad loses a ton of efficiency as soon as sarge dies. Now those weapons have to fire at the same target and they may not all be able to affect it. Wasted points.

If you take all the same weapon, you get the benefit of using sarge as a wound soak.

MLs are the most efficient choice because they are cheap, have long range, can kill tanks or infantry, waste MCs, can instakill T4 and down and take away FNP from the same targets.

If you want to run another configuration, there are plenty that work. For example, 5 MMs in a pod with Logan. Pod down, split fire and waste two tanks. Then Logan runs off to kill stuff while the Fangs create a 24" death zone to vehicles.

5 Plasma Cannons works well if you don't mind spending the points.

5 Las Cannons works well too, and when combined with Logan they can be mobile, but again, this is a mostly for fun unit as it costs so much.

So, run HB if you want to and your local area has lots of light infantry or units that are spread out and not susceptible to frags. The thing is though, in most games, the MLs are the better choice which is why you see them in nearly every tournament SW army.

If you are getting 9+ hits with a small blast template, you're probably playing versus a bad opponent. Against people who space properly, you will get 1 hit per "hit," 2 with a lucky scatter.

Fetterkey wrote:If you are getting 9+ hits with a small blast template, you're probably playing versus a bad opponent. Against people who space properly, you will get 1 hit per "hit," 2 with a lucky scatter.

I agree.

I disagree.

9 was the extreme, for certain, but when firing at units in cover, they are often in base contact with one another and as such you can stack a large amount of models under the template. It does not always happen but when you pop a transport and models must disembark, when a large unit is moving through a tight space, or as stated, when a unit is in cover, you can. I have gotten over 20 hits with 5 frag missile many times, it is not at all uncommon. You have the potential to hit more than three models, whereas with a HB you do not.

My point being, that you will often average as many wounds against infantry with frags as you will with HBs, thus making the HB with it's inferior range and AT capabilities the poorer choice in nearly any circumstance and certainly in a take-all-comers list.

Ok. Let me re iterate. HB's are better against MEQs IN COVER. Regarding blast templates, I seriously doubt you can get 9 guys let alone 3 (we are talking about MEQs right?) even if they are in cover.

Most of the time, against an opponent even marginally trying to be competitive will make sure you only hit 1.

Regarding Mechanized MEQs, Im not saying you have to bring 3 squads of HB Long fangs, It can be 2 Squads of ML and a squad of HB. The 2 can pop the transports the HB can hose them down. You will rarely have an opportunity to shoot blast templates on infantry that just disembarked from a vehicle because they are needed elsewhere. People also seem to forget that the blast templates give the marines the short end of the stick because scatter hits are worse than BS4.

Funnily enough, your ML's are busy popping something else other than the actual MEQ infantry. They rarely have MEQs as target priority and they do a bad job against them usually killing 1-2 marines.

HB's work by wound saturation, and they are pretty damned cheap. Again, im not saying that an HB LF is a must take. Ultimately, It depends on the meta you are playing. Mine is filled with MEQs, Loganwing TDA and TWC spam. My HB make my opponent sweat when they have to make 7-10 armor saves.

I agree with Yuber all the way. I have an extremely hard time with my scatter dice. And when I do hit I can rarely get more than 2 models under them.

I see the heavy bolter as a good points saver. If you need to find 5 or 10 points for something else in your list, switch a Missile Launcher or 2 over to a Heavy Bolter. Because I doubt you can't find something to shoot 3 str5 shots at.

If the MEQ is in cover or the in the open it makes no difference. Neither a frag nor the HB ignores their armor save. Kraks are quite obviously superior at killing MEQs in the open but I assumed that went without saying.

Well perhaps you guys have had different results than I have. But my missile wolf tournament army routinely guts squads with blast templates and I play in highly competitive tournaments against very skilled opponents. I have also won several tournaments and GTs with them so yes, I would say the people I am playing are trying to play competitively. I almost never fire krak missiles at infantry unless they are MEQ's in the open. The frags are superior at killing infantry.

As I said, I routinely get upwards of 20 hits on squads of infantry with blast templates. 5 templates on a packed in squad will net you a surprising amount of hits. That is the crowd control in my list. I have 21 missile launchers and a ton of other dedicated anti-tank weapons. I fire the MLs last typically after transports are opened and I use them to blast the squads that are now exposed and clumped together.

But to each his own. As I always say, use what works for you. But, you will not see HB LFs in a tournament Space Wolf list, at least none that I have seen that have placed well. It is always all MLs because they are good at clearing infantry and tanks. They are the most efficient load out for LFs.

Reecius wrote:If the MEQ is in cover or the in the open it makes no difference. Neither a frag nor the HB ignores their armor save. Kraks are quite obviously superior at killing MEQs in the open but I assumed that went without saying.

Well perhaps you guys have had different results than I have. But my missile wolf tournament army routinely guts squads with blast templates and I play in highly competitive tournaments against very skilled opponents. I have also won several tournaments and GTs with them so yes, I would say the people I am playing are trying to play competitively. I almost never fire krak missiles at infantry unless they are MEQ's in the open. The frags are superior at killing infantry.

As I said, I routinely get upwards of 20 hits on squads of infantry with blast templates. 5 templates on a packed in squad will net you a surprising amount of hits. That is the crowd control in my list. I have 21 missile launchers and a ton of other dedicated anti-tank weapons. I fire the MLs last typically after transports are opened and I use them to blast the squads that are now exposed and clumped together.

But to each his own. As I always say, use what works for you. But, you will not see HB LFs in a tournament Space Wolf list, at least none that I have seen that have placed well. It is always all MLs because they are good at clearing infantry and tanks. They are the most efficient load out for LFs.

I am not denying the fact that ML Long fangs are better, in fact I concede that they better than the HB LF most of the time. I am merely suggesting a configuration for the long fangs that is viable but not utilized.

I would say most people on here are not WAAC. Therefore, a HB isn't a bad idea. But your right Reecius, ML>HB.

@Praetor Dave
Gosh, that makes me laugh, the part about people on Dakka not being WAAC. I agree with you, but it used to be the opposite. This was the shark tank (as said by GW) where you came to learn how to win, and if you said something that was not supported by math, facts or documented experience, you got flamed to high holy hell! Bad advice was simply not tolerated. It sounds bad, but it was actually a lot of fun if you were competitively minded. The ideas that came out of here set the meta across the game at times, it was very exciting.

Dakka has changed so much, it almost feels weird sometimes. It is definitely a nicer place now and still home, but my have the times changed. You used to be able to come here and learn how to win tournaments and that was all this place was about.

@thread
Yeah, HBs aren't bad, by any means and they look really cool. I just can't bring myself to use them when the ML does what they do better in most cases + all the other benefits that we have covered.

But like always, to each their own. If someone wants to use one of each heavy weapon in their squad, then go for it! The game is meant to be fun and everyone has that fun in different ways.

ML are about area denial on your opponent. You have ap3 shots. This forces him to stay in cover or 3 marines will die with no save. You have 5x Small blast templates. Your opponent must keep the full 2" coherency, diluting his forces.

If I am playing space marines and my opponent has no AP3 in the area, I get to walk blithely across the tables. Having a squad of of Missile fangs forces me to hug buildings and limits my options. You don't need to actually shoot meq with the missiles, you just need to have them. A squad of 5 marines out of cover is a target of opportunity, if it presents itself, take the shot. IF not, there are plenty of transports to kill.

Thaylen wrote:ML are about area denial on your opponent. You have ap3 shots. This forces him to stay in cover or 3 marines will die with no save. You have 5x Small blast templates. Your opponent must keep the full 2" coherency, diluting his forces.

If I am playing space marines and my opponent has no AP3 in the area, I get to walk blithely across the tables. Having a squad of of Missile fangs forces me to hug buildings and limits my options. You don't need to actually shoot meq with the missiles, you just need to have them. A squad of 5 marines out of cover is a target of opportunity, if it presents itself, take the shot. IF not, there are plenty of transports to kill.

This is why you still take ML Long fangs.

Fetterkey wrote:If you are getting 9+ hits with a small blast template, you're probably playing versus a bad opponent. Against people who space properly, you will get 1 hit per "hit," 2 with a lucky scatter.

I can count a number of game situation were units would be forced to jam close together giving you a ton of hits with 5 blast weapons...you can get upwards of 20+ hits

-Vehicle Explodes result with models embarked forces you to place models were the vehicle use to be. in the case of a rhino with 10 guys this is a tight area.
-units disembarking to rapid fire on a target and needing to stick close to get all models in 12 inch range.
-tank shocks that force models close together
-a unit that assaulted a vehicle
-a unit that finished an assault and rolled a 1 for consolidation
-a unit hugging up against a rhino to keep out of LOS of your models. (target the rhino and get a few models on hit result)

these are a few common situations that occur during a game that would cause even an experienced player to have models tightly packed.

Exactly, it happens in my games all the time. I find it common to wrack up the hits with blast templates if you wait for the good shots. It is not always realistic or possible for a player to always space properly. That is one of those theory vs. reality of the table top differences that you can't quantify on the internet.

Oh man, we're talking about blast templates? I can't wait until a few select members of the board pipe in about how templates are useless because you can keep all your models at max coherency at all times including when in cover.

ML > HB

Overall I'm mostly with Reecius on this one, but I can absolutely see Yuber's point. Depending on the tables and lists you are seeing, and the context of the rest of your own list, HBs may be a solid option. If your opponents are disciplined about spacing, the number of really sweet clumped-up shots can be limited, though there's usually at least a couple. It can be relatively easy to space fully most of the time and still get cover saves, when you consider that only half the models in the unit actually need to be in cover.

You can't space out much when you pile out of a transport, disciplined or not.

If it's open-topped, or has three hatches (rhino, razorback, land raider), and spacing is more important than getting LOS in any particular direction, you can. A horseshoe at 2" out from the hatches gives pretty good dispersal.