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Hi Dakka,

Im trying to deal with Mephiston and cant seem to figure out what the quickest way to take him out. I play Space Pups and need some advice from you guys. If you need more specific information as to the type of list im running feel free to ask.

cheers

OK.

I am asking.

Cheers.

Do space wolves get assualt termies?

If so, surround Meph with TH/SS termies and club him to death, should only take 3 turns of CC.

las plas razorbacks? you cancel psychic powers on a 4+

Yeah, the first thing you need to do is to shot down his psychic powers.
Then he could only hoof around the battle field making him less a threat.
Other than that, power fists is what kills him, small arms fire also,
but he might benefit from FNP.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:las plas razorbacks? you cancel psychic powers on a 4+

It's 3+ actually I believe.

Lascannons, any kind of plasma or melta weapon that ignores armor saves and thus ignores FNP. Or, really, any weapons that is long-range and either has large amounts of bullets flying or is powerful enough to take down his saves.

Power weapons too, but its much more risky as his statline can dish out a ton of damage in CC unless you're rushing him with Termie with TH/SS as mentioned above. But that still means losing a good chunk of your really expensive unit before you get to strike, potentially martyring around 200-some points to take down a single guy.

Really, though, people over-estimate him, he has no IC rule, and thus cannot join squads, so you can snipe him from a distance.

Remember, he might be awesome in CC, but that's the only place he really shines, his ranged weapon is a plasma pistol, you can very easily take him down from a distance. I've played games where he died from Perils of the Warp and his plasma's Gets Hot! rule (highly unlikely to happen more than once on a blue moon so don't rely on that) before he got into range to do anything. Other times mass amounts of lascannons (ie more than 2) cut him down to size fast.

Quickest way in your case would be to pick him off from a distance with high-powered weapons.

Marines can handle him with mobile plasmaguns which can get within 12" and rapid fire into him. Lots of marine armies have switched to meltaguns however and that helps Mephiston.

TH/SS Termies handle him quite nice. Just 5 will kill him even if he assaults them. Space Wolves also have Thunderwolf Cav, but you will need to up some of them to have storm shields. Allocate 1 str 10 wound to those storm shield T-Wolves and 2 to those that don't have one. The SS T-wolves will likely survive and get their swings in. Make sure the SS T-wolves have a powerfist or wolfclaw to dish the most amount of damage to him. T-Wolf characters with the Saga of the Bear, SS, and nasty close combat weapon can also deal a tremendous amount of damage to him.

theduncan wrote:Do space wolves get assualt termies?

If so, surround Meph with TH/SS termies and club him to death, should only take 3 turns of CC.

Kindof, sortof, not really.....TH/SS termies cost sw 63 points a pop. Wolfguard start off as nakie power armor marines where every xtra piece of wargear costs them more points, and it is very easy to overspend. TH are rarely seen on termies because a chainfist costs the same cost.

The most balanced and competitive all comers termie build is most of them being barebones termies and then adding combi weapons, which means lots of combi plasma. The power armor wolfguard can also take combi weapons and mix into a squad with termies for wound allocation shinenagans. Anyhow massed combi plas is something for meph to be nervous about.

Lasplas Razorbacks and/or having Lone Wolves gang up on Mr. Mephistopheles.

I'm not sure Razorbacks are the best option. How many razorbacks are we talking about to take him down because anything more than 3 can lead to serious problems.

It is very easy to hide Mephiston behind any marine vehicle that drives up. He won't be shot by Razorbacks at that time. When he gets close he can fly 12", fleet d6" and assault 6". This mobility will get him to the side of the flank razorback in assault. He doesn't need str 10 to wreck the razorback, in fact keeping him at str 6 will give him a better chance of immobilising, stunning or wrecking the Razorback. Any of these results will keep the razorback in place and prevent all those other razorbacks from shooting him. If he only stunned or immobilised the razorback, he gets to assault it again in the opponents phase and most likely wreck it at this time. On his turn he gets to jump up 12", fleet d6" and assault 6" again to get into the side of another razorback and do this all over again.

Basically a parking lost of vehicles will provide Mephiston a plethora of LOS blocking terrain to run rampant. No the best way to take him out is to have something with 12" mobility that can put out a lot of ap 2 shots (CCS with 4 plasmaguns in chimera) or something that moves fast and can engage him in combat.

Plasma. Power weapons. Thunder wolf calv w/ SS's. Theres a lot of ways. Rune priests are your best bet, cancel his powers and waste him

Las/plas spam from long range, or make a decent saga of the bear HQ with SS/TH and a thunder wolf mount.

Thunder wolves and wolf lords with 3++ saves will cause him a lot of problems. Also, plasma guns and las cannons will kill him pretty easily.

Everything that has been said should work just fine. He's usually over-estimated. Just shoot him with AP2 stuff until he falls over, or assault him with hidden power weapons after you've softened him up.

I actually took him down with a scout squad out of an LSS. Drove up, put one wound from the multi-melta, another 2 from the sarges combi-melta + pistols, then fed him the squad. everyone save the sarge died and he punked 2 power fist wounds, finishing him off. It was glorious.

I find that the key is to have some crap unit to feed to him to get him in the open. Once he's not receiving cover, you should have enough guns to put him down.

Don't over focus on him though. If you are so worried about killing him that the rest of the BA romp through your army, then thats bad.

He's usually over-estimated.

Maybe.
But the opponent has to pay attention to him no matter what.
Otherwise, he can wreck havoc.

Bit of a silly one but maybe sniper rifles? As he has to stand in the open without ablatives he would give them something to shoot.... Ten scout snipers?

He doesn't have to stand out in the open though, he can stand right behind a rhino and be completely concealed. Also with my terrible math it seems to come out that they do just over a wound a turn with shooting even with rending.
Cancel his psychic powers and that will nerf him quite a bit. short ranged ap2 should help whittle him down. I know space wolfs love Missiles but if Meph is an issue you might need to spring for some plasma, Las cannons or extra melta.

Cheers,
~Volkan

Rune priests have force weapons correct? ID him. He's not immune to it.

Skulltaker is the perfect counter to him....now getting him into melee with a jumpack, fleeting maniac, thats a differant story. Fiends also do well against him.

No way a Rune Priest could take Mephiston in combat, he is going to be dead well before he gets to swing that Force Weapon and against T6 its a long shot in any case.

For most armies the easiest way to deal with Mephiston is to shoot him. Obviously you need a reasonable assault unit to even hurt him, but unless you are very hard to kill (TH/SS Terminators) or strike before him with a decent chance of killing him quickly (some Eldar/DE, Nids with Lash Whip support etc) it not even worth getting close as he will make a mess of most units before they get to swing. Thunderwolves are probably the strongest (and most common) SW dedicated assault unit but they don't match up well against Mephiston as he goes first and can get S10 attacks. A Rune Priest can even things up a bit, but even then you aren't guaranteed to stop his psychic powers so its not a great plan. Having said that all SW units are pretty decent in combat and should be able to take a couple of wounds off him if they get stuck in combat, it just not ideal,

Essentially you should just treat him like a vehicle and use any melta and plasma weaponry you have on him. Taking a Rune Priest will at the very least slow him down so you have more time to do it. Force him to charge Rhinos etc and then blast him the next turn (in that close he is unlikely to get cover).

Or just get a WolfLord with Saga of the Bear and then tear Mephy a new one.

What about that anvil special character? He would tear him a new one since he is not an IC.

He has a stat line better than a demon prince (nearly greater daemon) and costs like a land raider. Shoot him until he dies, bait hime, or avoid him.

Mobile plas or melta squads, as said.
Highly durable assault units, as said.

Shooting him from long distance is not a viable option, as he can easily hide behind vehicles. As said.

Neconilis wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:las plas razorbacks? you cancel psychic powers on a 4+

It's 3+ actually I believe.

Njal is 3+
Normal Rune Priest is 4+

DarthDiggler wrote:He doesn't need str 10 to wreck the razorback, in fact keeping him at str 6 will give him a better chance of immobilising, stunning or wrecking the Razorback.

How does S6 suddenly become better at penetrating AV10 than S10?

dunno

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

DarthDiggler wrote:He doesn't need str 10 to wreck the razorback, in fact keeping him at str 6 will give him a better chance of immobilising, stunning or wrecking the Razorback.

How does S6 suddenly become better at penetrating AV10 than S10?

It doesn't. You missed the point.

Making the attacks at S6 gives you much better odds of your highest damage result being an Immobilized, Stunned or Wrecked; S10 runs a higher risk of getting a Vehicle Explodes result, leaving Mephiston out in the open to be shot.