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I was wondering which army is the best for the tactic of overwelming the enemy
Reasons and tactics please

I am thinkink Orks and a Green Tide army list.
You can take 30orks in 6 Troop Choices

Troops - 29 Sluggas, Nob w/PK, BP 220pt
Troops - 29 Sluggas, Nob w/PK, BP 220pt
Troops - 29 Sluggas, Nob w/PK, BP 220pt
Troops - 29 Sluggas, Nob w/PK, BP 220pt
Troops - 29 Sluggas, Nob w/PK, BP 220pt
Troops - 29 Sluggas, Nob w/PK, BP 220pt

Total 1320pt - 180 units.

This isen't a real Green Tide list but it does show the huge amount of units you can have for almost no points at all!. I haven't studied a Green Tide list before but if you are interested i think you should look up Orks

Might not be what you were looking for but hope it helped a bit atleast!

as far as I'm concerned orks as well, I have to put something to fill this space anyway, so I may aswell voice my opinion

Skaven? Isen't that fantasy? I really don't know the possibillity of a Fantasy army has against a 40k

I'll go first then .

btw. Sorry

woops , sorry, better take that off haha

Hehe everyone makes mistakes mate ^^ but even so! I have lately thought of having a Fantasy army as a side project. And either Skaven or Orks and Goblins were my choice! So i am glad that you posted some delightful information about those rats

Yeah, they're fun to play if you already play orcs skaven use similar tactics so would be a good 'side project'

I would say Orks are unparalleled in their ability to put cheap bodies on the field.

However, Imperial Guard are able to vary the consistency of their groups (Heavy weapons squads, vet squads, etc), so I think they are more versatile.

But I think a greentide list is unbeatable. You just can't kill enough of them before those boys overtake you.

I also would say orks. Alone, they can be overwelming, if you use them like ZanZag said. Add a warboss, and then use the rest of the points to fill in other slots (nobs?). On top of that though, I belive there is a special Formation for orks as well, Green tide? Allows all (is that correct? or is only 1?) squads to take 100+ boys? Someone check me on this?

Warboss ZanZag wrote:I am thinkink Orks and a Green Tide army list.
You can take 30orks in 6 Troop Choices

Troops - 29 Sluggas, Nob w/PK, BP 220pt
Troops - 29 Sluggas, Nob w/PK, BP 220pt
Troops - 29 Sluggas, Nob w/PK, BP 220pt
Troops - 29 Sluggas, Nob w/PK, BP 220pt
Troops - 29 Sluggas, Nob w/PK, BP 220pt
Troops - 29 Sluggas, Nob w/PK, BP 220pt

Total 1320pt - 180 units.

This isen't a real Green Tide list but it does show the huge amount of units you can have for almost no points at all!. I haven't studied a Green Tide list before but if you are interested i think you should look up Orks

Might not be what you were looking for but hope it helped a bit atleast!

Make three of those squads Shoota boyz, give em three big shootas each for another 45 points. With the remaining 135 points get a warboss with a powerklaw, cybork body, attack squig, bosspole, and 'eavy armor. You've still got like 15 points left over to spend on 'eavy armor on Nobz or whatever.

Guard can legally field the most models in one FOC though. I don't have my codex on me, but you can cram over 100 guardsmen into each troops slot.

Guardsmen are actually cheaper than Orks. A 35-man platoon costs 180 points. Of course upgrades so you can come to the table with more than just flashlights will cost a bit more. To maintain competitive points per model with the above bare bones Ork list you are limited to about 75 points worth. Can't manage wall to wall las-plas but you can cram quite a lot in there.

I'd agree with either orks or guard. Orks are more specialized for close combat and are easier to use, but they can be beaten by a good guard commander who is boss at moving his troops.

After all 40 guardsmen FRFing a 30-ork slugga mob, once at over 12" and once again at 12" or less sees the mob hit the guard player's lines with only 4 orks make it into close combat. It's not such a scary waaaugh then.

Of course, maneuvering to make this happen is a lot more challenging than pushing orks straight down the table.

Troops:
30x Sluggas
-Nob w/PK
-BP

30x Sluggas
-Nob w/PK
-BP

30x Sluggas
-Nob w/PK
-BP

30x Sluggas
-Nob w/PK
-BP

30x Sluggas
-Nob w/PK
-BP

30x Sluggas
-Nob w/PK
-BP

Fast:
20x Storm Boyz
-Nob w/PK
-BP

20x Storm Boyz
-Nob w/PK
-BP

20x Storm Boyz
-Nob w/PK
-BP

Under 2000 Points....thats a TON of models

I can't picture a greentide not without lootas and plenty of rokkits. Transports pretty much shut it down.

An all shootas greentide with lootas would have obscene amounts of dakka.

WarrKing wrote:On top of that though, I belive there is a special Formation for orks as well, Green tide? Allows all (is that correct? or is only 1?) squads to take 100+ boys? Someone check me on this?

"Da Green Tide" is an Ork Apocalypse formation (found in Apoc: Reloaded). It's a pretty cheap buy-in plus model cost unit. Minimum size is 100 models with no upper limit. Force Org doesn't matter in Apocalypse, so you can hypothetically cover every inch of your deployment zone with a single unit selection. God help you when you try and move them, though.

I really like the Nidz for overwhelming someone with a horde.

Throw in 90 Gargoyles on top of your Termagants and your opponent will only just finish killing the Gargoyles when all your Termagants hit.

90 Gragoyles is 540

180 Terms are 900

1440 points for 270 models

Add in a couple of Tervigons with Catalyst, toxin sacs and adrenal glands - along with some tank busting units and you've got a killer horde (setup right you can have 180 Termagants with Adrenal aglands and toxin sacs for free!) as well as using catalyst to give two units FNP

Surely this would rate as a formidable horde, even if they don't have the toughness of Orks.

How about horde sisters? 11 point power armor with faith can overwhelm people. 100+ sisters is easy to achieve. Sure it is going to take a while to get there with them, but if you try to CC them, they have a book of St Lucius that says they won't run away, and that is a whole bunch of attacks coming your way.

"Throw in 90 Gargoyles on top of your Termagants and your opponent will only just finish killing the Gargoyles when all your Termagants hit"
Unless they have something similar to the below...


Lots of orders enable FRF SRF rule to almost double your armies firepower under 24 inches, for shooting guard horde is king, for CC green tide is king.

imperial guard, 30 man squad and 20 man squad with a platoon command squad armed with flamers as a countercharge unit sheilded by the blob squads.

Times that by 3 and add creed for more FRF SRF orders. all adds up to slighly over 1000pts for 166 models including creed and a vox for each squad. Of course the is nothing to kill heavy armour there, but thats 270 lasgun shots at 24" and 405 at 12" provided all the FRF SRF orders go through.

schadenfreude wrote:I can't picture a greentide not without lootas and plenty of rokkits. Transports pretty much shut it down.

An all shootas greentide with lootas would have obscene amounts of dakka.

Wrong on that account anyways. As far as I can remember pretty much all transports are AV10, and assaults are done on the rear of vehicles. Ive munched transports when I run tide (in under 1k lists though, I dont have enough boyz for any higher lol) Orks are str4 on the assault, so sure your glancing but youve got to take into account the sheer volume of attacks Orks assaulting get.

29boyz(slugga) assaulting give 116 attacks. Even rollings 6s to hit and 6s for glances your chances are decent to immobolize those things. Not to mention the str8 pk the nob has. Like Ive said, Ive assaulted many a transport in my day, and have yet to have one stand after a blob attack. Granted its not the smartest unless your running full horde and have units to counter assault/help out the unit that assaulted the transport. Because everyone knows the best way to stop Orks in the assault is to assault them.

Here's what I don't understand - how do horde armies cross the board?

I look at gaunts, 'stealers, guardsmen and boyz, and I don't understand what keeps them from getting shot to hell en route.

Squash wrote:Here's what I don't understand - how do horde armies cross the board?

I look at gaunts, 'stealers, guardsmen and boyz, and I don't understand what keeps them from getting shot to hell en route.

They do get shot to Hell enroute.

Boyz have Kustm Force Fields to give them a bit more force multiplication. Kan Walls are oft employed as well for a distractor.

'Nids have Tervigons that poop out more units.

Guards don't really need to move as they sit on objectives and simply shoot you to pieces. If they did have to move, their units are really big. You could also take Al'Rahem(?) and outflank about half your army that way.

Agreed with WarOne there.
Thats the nice thing about taking a horde. Your numbers are so damn high, that your opponent just cant kill everything. So sure your taking casualties, but its not enough to really dent the sheer size of your force. Think about it, whatever army you use, how many shots a turn can you get across the table at 36inches or more? 24? 12? Sure the close the horde gets the more shots your sending, but when the number is in the hundreds of troops, (and Orks get the KFF save + 4+ from other units) they arrive at your feet with a huge number of bodies still, and dont forget that in assault blobs of orks get their attacks in the hundreds

The problem with orks isn't what happens when they have to go through enemy fire, it's what happens when they run into good assault units.

I mean, what happens when your boyz get charged by 5 thunderwolves+2 lords? all 30 wounds go away in a hurry. It's not even much better if you charge them.

The real bad part about orks is the fearless drawback, you will lose combat by a fair amount against good assault units, even if you had a favorable points exchange. Then you take a bunch of 6+ save fearless wounds... Which often nearly double the damage done. This can drop you below fearless, which makes your blob run next combat. Or even worse if you lose combat by enough to drop you below fearless, and then you are take a LD check at a huge minus. (counting shooting casualties, this isn't as hard as it seems).

I've played 160 boy list before, and been assaulted off the board.

Another thing that sucks about playing a horde ork (or any foot horde that requires crossing the board) is you are liable to loose to tired gimmick armies like dual lash. Your mobs are so easy to pull and bunch up the chaos player can even toy with them and make oblit flamer kill zones (seen it done). Hell you probably lose even to footdar, and for sure lose to an artillery heavy guard army.

I've got a green tide army that I enjoy playing, and this is why I really like the green tide army. Here are my thoughts on how it plays.

Advantages
* 150+ models in a 1750 game.
* When you pluck off 4 models the first round, you can tell your opponent that he killed 24 points of your army, and in another 60 turns or so he will table you.
* You negate your opponents anti-tank weapons. Those MM do great jobs vs. a 6 point ork!

Disadvantages
* AV 14 is a bear to crack
* Models take forever to play and move across the board (which is why you wont see many at tourneys, hard to play in 2 hours)

Strategy Advise
* A green tide mixes well with Kan Wall, and is something to consider with your heavy support choices
* If your not going kans, 2 warbosses work well. Warbosses for thier point cost are amazing. Throw a PK on them and they eat units up.
* Always take snikrot and krew. They give a huge advantage to green tide armies
* You need dethkoptas and/or lootas to crack transports. This is critical.
* Take a squad of 19 grots + runtherders. Those are your objective campers/screens.
* Congo-line your boys. By screening your boys its easy to give them cover. I never play with a KFF, but rarely can I not get a 4+ cover save.
* Take shootas too! Sluggas are great in assault, but most people say shootas are better in tide armies
* A squad of 30 boys w/nob PK, and big shootas is 230 points. Don't be surprised if their wiped by a 500+ point deathstar.

labmouse42 wrote: I've got a green tide army that I enjoy playing, and this is why I really like the green tide army. Here are my thoughts on how it plays.

Advantages
* 150+ models in a 1750 game.
* When you pluck off 4 models the first round, you can tell your opponent that he killed 24 points of your army, and in another 60 turns or so he will table you.
* You negate your opponents anti-tank weapons. Those MM do great jobs vs. a 6 point ork!

Disadvantages
* AV 14 is a bear to crack
* Models take forever to play and move across the board (which is why you wont see many at tourneys, hard to play in 2 hours)

Strategy Advise
* A green tide mixes well with Kan Wall, and is something to consider with your heavy support choices
* If your not going kans, 2 warbosses work well. Warbosses for thier point cost are amazing. Throw a PK on them and they eat units up.
* Always take snikrot and krew. They give a huge advantage to green tide armies
* You need dethkoptas and/or lootas to crack transports. This is critical.
* Take a squad of 19 grots + runtherders. Those are your objective campers/screens.
* Congo-line your boys. By screening your boys its easy to give them cover. I never play with a KFF, but rarely can I not get a 4+ cover save.
* Take shootas too! Sluggas are great in assault, but most people say shootas are better in tide armies
* A squad of 30 boys w/nob PK, and big shootas is 230 points. Don't be surprised if their wiped by a 500+ point deathstar.

Waow! This is a really nice list of (How to Green Tide) it actually have all you need! Strategy's, Advanteges and Disadvanteges i must say Bravo Labmouse bravo! :thumbsup
At some point i will try a green tide army myself but i am still short of... 120 boyz but this is surly helped me when the times comes.

2 Tervigons with toxin and adrenal

6X30 gaunts
3X30 gargoyles with toxin and adrenal

272 models, all with furious charge and poison.

1980 points

keep in mind the one problem with horde armies is though there may be 30 models in one unit. They either fall into one of two categories; bunched up and die horribly to templates, or running 2" coherency, and thus diluted to the point of weakening their impact on a point target.

Thaylen wrote:keep in mind the one problem with horde armies is though there may be 30 models in one unit. They either fall into one of two categories; bunched up and die horribly to templates, or running 2" coherency, and thus diluted to the point of weakening their impact on a point target.

This.

Horde armys work fine and dandy at 1000 points games, but above that, there are going to be too many transports and too many better assault units for you to handle effectively.

Ever had your 30 boy mob shot down to 10 models, and by the time they reach your opponent's units, you haven't cracked open his Rhinos? Yeah, it happens at higher point games.

Redbeard wrote:The problem with orks isn't what happens when they have to go through enemy fire, it's what happens when they run into good assault units.

I mean, what happens when your boyz get charged by 5 thunderwolves+2 lords? all 30 wounds go away in a hurry. It's not even much better if you charge them.

I just want to point out, that happens to anything charged by what you posted. Its not just an Ork problem, its an over powered problem