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Would it be worth it to take deffkoptas with different gear to take advantage of the wound allocation rules nobz use?
Adding that extra little bit of survivability to a suicide unit sounds interesting to me...

jdbled wrote:Would it be worth it to take deffkoptas with different gear to take advantage of the wound allocation rules nobz use?
Adding that extra little bit of survivability to a suicide unit sounds interesting to me...

Difficult to say. More often than not, I don't see them being used as a unit, but as two or three separate units of one. Like you said, they're a suicide unit - they can do their job by themselves and taking 3 keeps their cost down, but also retains the ability to not only disable 3 targets on Turn 1, but also give your enemy multiple threats to deal with if he ends up seizing or getting Turn 1 in the first place.

I agree with puma. Using them in groups is a liability. Use them as single suicide units of goodness.

You mean with a buzzsaw? and have them assault like a vehicle?
I've ran them in squads of 2 with the twin linked rokkits.
I see what you mean though split the enemies fire make them fire on them instead of yur boyz. And they are an expensive suicide unit...

jdbled wrote:You mean with a buzzsaw? and have them assault like a vehicle?
I've ran them in squads of 2 with the twin linked rokkits.
I see what you mean though split the enemies fire make them fire on them instead of yur boyz. And they are an expensive suicide unit...

Yes, with buzzsaws. And, they're scouts, so they can turbo-boost before the turn begins. Now, you've got 3 units with power klaws in threat range of an army's most valuable tanks/units on Turn 1, before they've moved. So, you assault and, guess what? Auto-hit with a few power klaw attacks to the rear armor of a few of the enemy's tanks. Remove his mobility before your trukks or battlewagons even get there.

I've ran a squad of 5 a couple of times. The wound allocation comes in handy. I usually turboboost them around the sides of the board and try and pick off their vehicles with their TL Rokkits, rather than giving them buzzsaws.

It works just as well IMO, because your opponent will have to direct a significant amount of fire power to take them out. Meanwhile your army will advance.

It is expensive to run a 5 man squad with TL Rokkits, and more often than not they will not survive, but they usually earn their points back.

Yes! Get buzzsaws. It's often that you can reach your enemy on the first turn and deal with his tanks. This is especially good because it is often vehicles with their template weapons do bad things to orks. If you plan on doing this, then you can drop additional weapons that you won't need as much since you're assaulting the first turn. With the extra points you could buy some bombz and most likely the deffkoptas will survive the first round with their 3+ save from zooming. On the second turn you could strafe their army and drop the bombz leaving destruction in your path.

Well I've run the standard set of 3 you get in the AOBR set many times and it's surprising how much punishment they can take but as people have said, they can get pretty expensive run in groups, especially with buzzsaws in there.

jdbled wrote:You mean with a buzzsaw? and have them assault like a vehicle?
I've ran them in squads of 2 with the twin linked rokkits.
I see what you mean though split the enemies fire make them fire on them instead of yur boyz. And they are an expensive suicide unit...

... If you're taking them for the rokkits then you really want buggies

Tri wrote:

jdbled wrote:You mean with a buzzsaw? and have them assault like a vehicle?
I've ran them in squads of 2 with the twin linked rokkits.
I see what you mean though split the enemies fire make them fire on them instead of yur boyz. And they are an expensive suicide unit...

... If you're taking them for the rokkits then you really want buggies

I agree with Tri. The main reasons people take the koptas is the buzzsaw/scout/ and they move like jetbikes. The main reason someone puts the rokkits on them is a just incase type of thing.

If you just want rokkits, buggies in squadrons are a cheaper better way of doing it.

Well, it appears that single Deff Koptas with rokkits and power klaws are the best option.
One reason is that they don't have to make LD test.
Moreover, they are cheap enough to be expendable and
they should easily make their points back disrupting enemy plans.

Large squads can be become a liability. Beside the LD problem
they can only take on one target, while multiple single Deff Koptas
can target multiple units (one-to-one).

wuestenfux wrote:One reason is that they don't have to make LD test.

Huh?? Why do deffkopta's not have to take a leadership test?

If you're running multiple deffkoptas in a suicide squad, does wound allocation work in close combat?

s.j.mccartney wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:One reason is that they don't have to make LD test.

Huh?? Why do deffkopta's not have to take a leadership test?

If you're running multiple deffkoptas in a suicide squad, does wound allocation work in close combat?

I meant single Deff Koptas.

i use deffcopters as single units, i just dont see why a squad has much use unless you are playing apoc and have a 2 maybe 3 squads of them n even then why you would is a strange thing to me, the big bomb is ok against gaurd and nids so hurling it across the table and dropping one of them over a squad of light armour units works but it depends who/what your fighting.

when i play against my friends orks, his deffkoptas really annoy the out of me. the reason? i play eldar mostly... i got wave serpents, if he gets first turn im cause he scouts his koptas and jsut uterrly destroys my wave serpents

I f I see a big unit I always shoot at it enough to make it test morale. When I run them it's always in 1's or 2's, and one always has a saw. I may start running them with Saw & Big Shoota - (the missiles rarely hit, so why buy them? -- usually its: scout move; first turn move; shoot missiles; watch them miss; assault!)

The one time I ran a bunch (groups of 5 - in a planetstrike game) they were blown up rather quickly by my Tau opponent. He hates them.

I have never had much luck w/ Big Bombs - everyone is playing cards in their Rhinos. By the time my opponents come out - the Coptas have done their dirty deeds and are dead.

Tri wrote:. If you're taking them for the rokkits then you really want buggies

Why buggies over deathkoptas for the TL rokkits?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lost Boyz wrote:I may start running them with Saw & Big Shoota - (the missiles rarely hit, so why buy them? .

You've just been having back luck. A TL weapon with BS of 2 has a ~55% of scoring a hit.

I love deffkoptas/buggies. The TL rokkits give the orks something they really need -- the ability to crack trasports at range. What good does it do to have your boys pour from a truuk to smash a rhino to bits in assault? The 10 marines will pour out and bolter the orks into oblivion. Now, if the rhino has been cracked open already, the boys can pour out and give the MEQ the beating they deserve.

Half the price vs the kopta? (Or 10 if you go without the saw)

It also brings an AV10 platform, which can add up to some silly numbers of vehicles.

Oscarius wrote:Half the price vs the kopta? (Or 10 if you go without the saw)

It also brings an AV10 platform, which can add up to some silly numbers of vehicles.

Ive thought about this and I'm not sure on the AV 10 vs T5.

The koptas have the following advantages
* 4+ cover save makes them more likely to survive autoannon/ML hits
* Ignore terrain when moving

The buggies have the following advantages
* Cheaper
* Can't be tied up in assault

For a single model, I can see the reasons to use a buggy, but a squad of open topped AV 10 vehicles is just begging for a TL AC dread to send them into oblivion.

Buggies are rather low, so they don't have such a hard time to get an equaly good cover. They are also slightly more surivivable against s8+ hits.

Another good thing is that they fuse well with av10 spam.


3x3 Rockit Bugges and 3x3 Rockit Kans is 765p, that is 18 low AV targets.
Add in a few trucks and some KFF's and you got a sick amount of suprisingly hard vehicles.

labmouse42 wrote:

Oscarius wrote:Half the price vs the kopta? (Or 10 if you go without the saw)

It also brings an AV10 platform, which can add up to some silly numbers of vehicles.

Ive thought about this and I'm not sure on the AV 10 vs T5.

The koptas have the following advantages
* 4+ cover save makes them more likely to survive autoannon/ML hits
* Ignore terrain when moving

The buggies have the following advantages
* Cheaper
* Can't be tied up in assault

For a single model, I can see the reasons to use a buggy, but a squad of open topped AV 10 vehicles is just begging for a TL AC dread to send them into oblivion.

Koptas do not have a cover save (unless they turbo boost in which case its 3+) ... you are thinking of warbikes. Warbuggies on the other hand can keep within 6" of a big mek with kustom force field, getting a 4+ coversave and cannot be hurt by anything less then strength 4. Auto cannon dreads would be a problem ... but then again that's the case for both units

The only reason to take deffkopters is for the first turn charge with a Buzzsaw.

labmouse42 wrote:


The buggies have the following advantages
* Cheaper
* Can't be tied up in assault

For a single model, I can see the reasons to use a buggy, but a squad of open topped AV 10 vehicles is just begging for a TL AC dread to send them into oblivion.

If a warbuggies is surrounded/enclosed by enemy units it cannot move away because it is unable to tank shock.

Nulipuli2 wrote:when i play against my friends orks, his deffkoptas really annoy the out of me. the reason? i play eldar mostly... i got wave serpents, if he gets first turn im cause he scouts his koptas and jsut uterrly destroys my wave serpents

How about keeping the army or part of it in reserve?

Both units have their uses, but while their main objective is generally the same, the way they got about it is totally different.

Deffkopt's w/ rokkits and buzzsaw are meant to get on a vehicle with a high front/low back av value and wreck it, typically suiciding in the process. While they have some general survivability, they aren't that hard to take down.

Warbuggies operate best in squadrons. They are also going for knocking down enemy tanks, but they do so using shooting attacks. In general, they are tougher as after wounding and saves, you have to make another roll to kill one. They are less of a suicide unit.

I use warbuggies with my kan wall, as that gives me 18 total vehicles on the table. The buggies will draw fire from my more expensive and more killy kans.

Warbuggies are crappy 2nd ed models.
However, they could be proxied with Trukks and give some cover saves to units behind.

wuestenfux wrote:Warbuggies are crappy 2nd ed models.
However, they could be proxied with Trukks and give some cover saves to units behind.

... trukks are too big but would be a good option for scratch building them

wuestenfux wrote:Warbuggies are crappy 2nd ed models.
However, they could be proxied with Trukks and give some cover saves to units behind.

I use forge world grot tanks for "counts as" warbuggies.

olympia wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:Warbuggies are crappy 2nd ed models.
However, they could be proxied with Trukks and give some cover saves to units behind.

I use forge world grot tanks for "counts as" warbuggies.

I built mine out of koptas. The real buggy models look horrible, but in the game they are great. I take them in my lists all the time.

I have a few buggy and wartrak models, I like the look of them. They're good for the points.

But the move over terrain and then better line of sight from the flying base is making me choose deffkopta's these days.

Its a good idea to run buggys enmasse alongside killakans. Spam AV 10 + 11 = too many targets to hit them all!

Wasn't there something on the rumour mill about new plastic Ork Warbuggies? Did I just make that up? Does anyone have any pics?

Thanks for the help guys!
the other day i played a small 600 pt game against blood angels and wiped them out!
Brought along a deffkopta w/TL Rokkits and outflanked right behind his furioso dreadnought w/ heavy flamers
One Rokkit... one wrecked dreadnought