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Well, as the post said. Templars, and their updated FAQ brings them into line with the new space marine books. This IMO is a great addition because they become a lot more able to compete at the tournament level. One of the reasons why I decided to shelve them was the lack of ranged firepower now that everyone was boxing up. But the change to typhoon and cyclone rockets finally makes some fire support available in large and decently priced numbers! Not only that, but the ability to have POTMS on vindicators (and than now it allows you to fire when moving 12" makes them just as reliable and fast as Blood angel vindicators! Not only that, but the addition of apothecary FNP has made command squads a lot better than they used to be (and remember that templar command squads can come up to 10 men, or 15 if you take hellbrecht!

Anyway, just putting all these thoughts out there.

And army wide preferred enemy still

Yeah, they are legit now.

145 pred annihilators, and super termies means they can be a force on the table.

I am going to use my marines as Templars again and try out the new changes, it think it will be good fun.

Wow. Yesturday was game night at GW, and a couple of us were bugging a BT player that his BT needed to make better SS, and we kept bugging him about the crappy SS.

We just got told lol. We are so gonna get it next week.

Holy crap, Black Templars are going to be so sick now!

Dark Angels, too.

That FAQ just really changed gak.

Now it looks like everyone is eating at the same side of the table

Not even close! BTs just went up to the top of the heap, the lists you can pull out of that book are insane now.


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Dark Angels too! Damn, they went from the worst MEQ books up to fething awesome in the speed of one FAQ! haha.

How many "counts as" wolves do you think will be "counts as" BTs and DAs now?

I know mine will be doing all of the above !haha.

out of curiosity, did they also FAQ away their stupid permanent +1 cover save?

black templars were already very strong. This just buffs some units that people really didn't take giving the army more variety.

I hope this is a sign of how GW plans to handle old codices in the future, I think whoever had this idea should be promoted.

The only problem is that the BTs now get more access to better stuff, cheaper. They just skyrocketed in the meta.

How does 5 units of terminators with preferred enemy and 4 strength 9, 48" shots a turn sound? Loganwing can kiss the BT's arse!

Ah man, this is going to shake up the meta SO much.

I may be knee-jerking here a bit, but I will bet my bottom dollar that BTs are on-par with wolves after this. DA may be, too.


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@Artfcllyflvrd
You are right though that it was a smart play, business wise. It just reinvigorated an entire line of models.

I feel like we're back in 4th ed with these min-maxed termie squads ruling the roost!

So, feel free to point it out if I'm wrong, but I noticed that the Black Templars still have their unique way of doing Drop Pods, in that they DON'T automatically deploy half their drop pods on the first turn. If so, that's cool! Glad to see not all Space Marines are becoming copies of each in EVERYTHING.

I...I may just have to pick up Black Templars...

I don't think BT's are going to rule the roost as much as you'd think. They still pay premiums on transports and while the termies are cool and so are the speeders I think your going to wind up eating a ton of points up in troops. If you want to have a rounded army that is.

This is actually why I think the DA came out ahead. they have the (mostly) cheaper transports if your going to take non-DW troops but their power unit is a troop unit. Unlike BT's. Honestly I think they just have a chance to compete now, unlike before.

Reecius wrote:
How does 5 units of terminators with preferred enemy and 4 strength 9, 48" shots a turn sound? Loganwing can kiss the BT's arse!

This sounds like what the chosen could do in the 4th edition chaos codex. How much are those 5 units of termies with 2 cyclones each? 265? 275 each? I don't have a BT codex to answer for sure. Do 2 of them come from the HQ slot? because you then have to add in the cost of those 2 HQ's and the mandatory Emperors champion. How many points are left to field an army? 150-300? left for troops?

I'm dead,

@Artfcyllflvrd
Maybe you had more success with them than me, but I took the out competitively and they struggled.

Now though, they are right up there in the top tier, bot DA and BT.

@Hulk
Not really. Take 2-3 units of 5 Crusaders either naked or with a L.Cannon in a Rhino. 130-145 points per scoring unit. Put them in reserves and then just have them go after objectives. Or, they can sit the l.cannon out of the back of the Rhino.

Or the 2 assault cannon termie squad with tank hunters. 255 points and it will wreck transports. (although nothing new there, they have been able to do that, still it's damn good!)

The big one though it the 2 cyclone unit, 265 points for move and shoot, strength 9 m.launchers. Sick! Plus they have preferred enemy to make them plenty tough in combat.

70 point Typhoons is crazy.

145 point preds.

155 points vindies that always move and shoot.

25 point assault marines with a flipping storm shield! That is crazy! Toss in a super chappy (6 attacks with l.claws, reroll everything) and you have a super tarpit unit that will also hit hard. They're almost flying, fearless, preferred enemy terminators.

Wow there is a lot to dig out of this book, now.

And that is all just first glance.

Awww man... and I just got finished adding a coat of red to my former repaint of light bluish grey over my origional ultra blue. Now I gotta break out black too?

At least the Base coat is most of the work

Return of the las/plas squad anyone?

6 x las/plas crusader squads = 606 points.

That is a lot of firepower and scoring units for not too many points. Only problem is that 2-3 of them will fire at the closest unit every turn instead of the unit you may want.

I'm not a BT player, but I've subscribed to this thread just to see what happens.
I can see they are definitely much stronger now. As good as Reecius thinks? I'm not sure, his is an opinion I'd value but I'm still not sure...

I think this is good for BT but I have to agree with Hulk that it won't be the end all be all. It only takes one casualty for those lasplas squads to test on LD8, making a Captain almost required. Then without chaplains making the army fearless they are extremely vulnerable to psycher battle squads. They also have no psychic defense so wolves will destroy them with that slowed dangerous terrain power.

This is good, but I don't know that I would build lists out of the book any differently, and I didn't use anything that got buffed.


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I take back what I said, I used to run nothing but maxed crusader squads. I would take out as many as I need to run a maxed THSS termie squad. They move, run, move if you shoot at them, have their 3+ invuln, and preferred enemy. Just nasty.

Just Dave wrote:I'm not a BT player, but I've subscribed to this thread just to see what happens.
I can see they are definitely much stronger now. As good as Reecius thinks? I'm not sure, his is an opinion I'd value but I'm still not sure...

I could absolutely be wrong! I have been many times, but I feel that this list book will be bringing the pain. I posted an off the cuff list in that section that has tremendous firepower and assaults like crazy, too.

I am gong to experiment with them and see. I strongly believe we will be seeing them in tournament rankings soon, though.

@Artfcllyflvrd
No Typhoons? I am all over those at 90 points a pop, and to the same thing at a 20 point discount? That is a steal! Take 6 of those for 420 points and you have a mountain of mobile firepower.

Preds for 145 is no joke either.

The las/plas squad will be susceptible to a lot of attacks, but even at 151 points to put them in a rhino, it is still a great buy! The only downside is "kill them all" and the fact that they are acting as a poor man's razorback that can't move and shoot.

Still, wolves pay 150 for nearly the same thing and a lot more for terminators, typhoons and such. They still have LFs which are absolutely incredible, but those BT terminator squads level the playing field, IMO.

We'll just have to wait and see how it plays out, but I am very excited for the change in the meta if nothing else.

Take 30 assault terminators for 1200 points and now you have a balls out army just on that alone.

The flying tarpit assault squad will be really good, too, I think.


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Ah but you know who will give BTs fits if they rely on Termies? Dual Lash Chaos. That may be a real PITA.

The Assault Marine storm shields are now 15 points per model, just FYI.

EDIT: Also, Templars are still really slow on the ground, even with Zeal.

Ah, good catch, I missed that. Still, throwing a few in there helps a ton.

Can someone provide a link to the FAQ?

BT --

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1620223a_Black_Templars_Version_1_1.pdf


DA --

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1620225a_Dark_Angels_Version_1_1.pdf

I love playing BT because they run off objectives constantly.

It pretty much rocks.

This is the best thing that's ever happened to my Dark Angels army. They are actually not only competitive but they can keep up the the newer armies. Way to go GW!

My lord. This will be ridiculous - I'll be sure to tell my local DA player about this.

Just...wow. I might actually be able to find a DA player now, leaving me to only 2 armies I haven't fought.

Actually, Kill them All! got Faq'd as well. Target Priority no longer applies

Also, I'm really liking the Tank Hunters Cyclone Missile Termy squad. How much do the other marine codex pay for lascannon devestators again?

calypso2ts wrote:I love playing BT because they run off objectives constantly.

It pretty much rocks.

you actually don't have to move the full distance of the Rightious Zeal roll.

you just have to move. that move can be 0.000001 inch.