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The whole "It's bugged? Sod it, we'll patch later."

It's really lazy.

New Vegas has got to be a prime example. It's a good game, yeah. But what the feth? How the hell did they not catch half of the glitches that made the game almost incapable (I've had a bunch of bugs myself, but I didn't have any game breaking ones that people were complaining about) of being completed?

It's damn lazy.

Anyone agree/disagree?

Are you on a PC? On the 360 Fallout New Vegas is less buggy (and a bit less clunky) than Fallout 3.

GalacticDefender wrote:Are you on a PC? On the 360 Fallout New Vegas is less buggy (and a bit less clunky) than Fallout 3.

I'm on the 360. It's the only game I have which randomly freezes up my xbox completely. Especially on Hoover Dam. I did install the game which has helped a little, but it's still pretty buggy. I still walk around and find enemies in the ground, randomly complete/fail quests... It's quite a mess.

I got Fallout: New Vegas on PS3 and it is just as buggy. I remember the other day I was trying to climb a small hill and I got stuck on a rock the size of my foot. I couldn't off it. My grenades landed to far away to blow me up, I didn't have enough food with radiation to commit suicide. I had killed all the beasts in the area, so none was coming to my rescue. I tried First Person mode and still nothing. I couldn't fast travel because the game treated my character like he was constantly jumping. I had to eventually reset the game.

I don't know how many times this game freezes up too. Probably the worst glitch I have seen is actually sneaking across the country and getting to New Vegas without being killed by the deathclaws. If you do the game glitches and a ton of quests pretty much cease to exist.

I haven't seen this many games with glitches in a long time. Games used to be rigorously tested before being shipping out. Now they can ship them out half-assed and fix them with a update later. In addition, the companies like to leave out significant portions of games to be retooled and marketed as expansion packs or as seperate games like New Vegas.

Lord Scythican wrote:I got Fallout: New Vegas on PS3 and it is just as buggy. I remember the other day I was trying to climb a small hill and I got stuck on a rock the size of my foot. I couldn't off it. My grenades landed to far away to blow me up, I didn't have enough food with radiation to commit suicide. I had killed all the beasts in the area, so none was coming to my rescue. I tried First Person mode and still nothing. I couldn't fast travel because the game treated my character like he was constantly jumping. I had to eventually reset the game.

I don't know how many times this game freezes up too. Probably the worst glitch I have seen is actually sneaking across the country and getting to New Vegas without being killed by the deathclaws. If you do the game glitches and a ton of quests pretty much cease to exist.

I haven't seen this many games with glitches in a long time. Games used to be rigorously tested before being shipping out. Now they can ship them out half-assed and fix them with a update later. In addition, the companies like to leave out significant portions of games to be retooled and marketed as expansion packs or as seperate games like New Vegas.

That's another thing that annoys me. Hell, what they did in Fable 3 should be damn illegal. They finished all the dyes, then you had to download a paid code to unlock them? What? If I'm buying a game, I want to have everything on the disc, not buy 'unlocks' for it. =/

Obsidian is notorious for releasing buggy games that are in the long run, quite enjoyable, when enough (usually fan) patches have been thrown over it.

And I agree, day one DLC is a horrible excuse at milking more out of an already expensive game.

You know I think the gaming companies have found a new way to get a price increase. Games have been $60.00 since the launch of the 360 and PS3. They were $50.00 before that all the way back to what, NES?

Everything else has jumped in prices, so I guess they want some of the pie too. But instead of raising the price they are leaving out content and making you pay more for DLC. Some of the best "complete" games are almost $100.00 now if not more. If you want all of that and do not want to pay extra then you have to wait a year for a GotY edition and pay $60.00 when the original game should have had all that in the first place and be used for $30.00.

Look at Read Dead Redemption. If you want the basics and the zombie expansion, it is $100.00. That's not counting all the little downloads at $2.50, etc.

At least Undead Nightmare gave you 6+ hours play time.
The dyes in Fable 3 was just an attempt to get more money, as they were common colours.

DLC like that I don't mind too much, as we've had expansions for games since I was a kid (PC games, I mean, which is essentially the same).

Don't buy an Obsidian game until 6+ months after release. Ever. Period.

And the best patches for Oblivion (by Bethesda) and KotOR 2 are STILL fanmade patchs.

DLC is okay, as long as it wasn't features that I would expect from the game to begin with.

As for patches... I still occasionally dust off my VTM:Bloodlines and go through patching it to play through its campaign. Sure, it'd be better if they weren't needing to be patched, but it's better to get the patch than the buggy piece of gak.

Melissia wrote:DLC is okay, as long as it wasn't features that I would expect from the game to begin with.

As for patches... I still occasionally dust off my VTM:Bloodlines and go through patching it to play through its campaign. Sure, it'd be better if they weren't needing to be patched, but it's better to get the patch than the buggy piece of gak.

Well, the game more or less works until that one point pretty late in the game. Kudos to the team for cranking out a patch though despite no longer getting paid.

I agree, but on the other hand, we get to play it earlier! \o/

I guess it works out in the end. Its just sad seeing a game full of bugs in the beginning.

Realistically, this is the only way to do it. Games are worth more than $60.00 if you compare them to the price increases on everything else in the consumer market.

They have to cut corners (Put out buggy games) and then fix them once they get some of their money back through sales. In addition, the DLC will help out with the initial costs, especially if they can milk us for more money.

Would you do it any differently? If you were making games and the company told you that $60.00 isn't enough to pay for this game. You need to leave content out and fix the bugs later when we get some more money.

Wolfun wrote:The whole "It's bugged? Sod it, we'll patch later."

It's really lazy.

New Vegas has got to be a prime example. It's a good game, yeah. But what the feth? How the hell did they not catch half of the glitches that made the game almost incapable (I've had a bunch of bugs myself, but I didn't have any game breaking ones that people were complaining about) of being completed?

It's damn lazy.

Anyone agree/disagree?

Generally this isn't due to laziness, its due to publishers forcing developers to release the games before they are finished because they want more profit. It's unfortunate, but thats the way the industry has moved (MMOs are even worse) and users have yet to rebel enough for it to matter.

I'm so tired of New Vegas always freezing! :( Can't say that this is indicative of todays industry though. The most annoying thing for me are game exploits in multiplayer, but this is more of a problem with the people playing the games rather than the game itself. Luckily enough, most of these exploits are fixed rather quickly.

I hate DLC like the SPECACT upgrade for BC2, but I love the new Vietnam.

The most buggy game I've ever played is Gothic 3. To the point where it was actually unplayable. That was after it had been patched like crazy as well.

FO:NV (on the 360) was slightly buggy with a couple of random freezes, underground enemies etc, but almost infinitely better than Gothic 3.

SilverMK2 wrote:The most buggy game I've ever played is Gothic 3. To the point where it was actually unplayable. That was after it had been patched like crazy as well.

FO:NV (on the 360) was slightly buggy with a couple of random freezes, underground enemies etc, but almost infinitely better than Gothic 3.

Yeah Gothic 3 was aweful, especialy since 1 and 2 were awesome games.

How's the new one anyway? Anyone played it?

VTM Bloodlines was incredibly buggy on release, it was basically an Alpha build, not even a beta build. Thankfully, it was basically like Deus Ex with its own cult following, and its fans faithfully produced awesome, well-coded patches.

Melissia wrote:VTM Bloodlines was incredibly buggy on release, it was basically an Alpha build, not even a beta build. Thankfully, it was basically like Deus Ex with its own cult following, and its fans faithfully produced awesome, well-coded patches.

Yeah, the publisher can be blamed for making that happen, they let it rest on the proverbial shelf for months with no work being done on it thanks to HL2 delayed release.

Soladrin wrote:

SilverMK2 wrote:The most buggy game I've ever played is Gothic 3. To the point where it was actually unplayable. That was after it had been patched like crazy as well.

FO:NV (on the 360) was slightly buggy with a couple of random freezes, underground enemies etc, but almost infinitely better than Gothic 3.

Yeah Gothic 3 was aweful, especialy since 1 and 2 were awesome games.

How's the new one anyway? Anyone played it?

A good rule of thumb with Gothic games is that they get worse with each addition. From what I understand, the combat and gameplay in Gothic 4 is even more simplistic than WoW

metallifan wrote:the combat and gameplay in Gothic 4 is even more simplistic than WoW

Wow, that's pretty bad. I got bored with WoW in less than three days and had to struggle to finish my free trial time...

Melissia wrote:

metallifan wrote:the combat and gameplay in Gothic 4 is even more simplistic than WoW

Wow, that's pretty bad. I got bored with WoW in less than three days and had to struggle to finish my free trial time...

That's probably because you were under level 20 and had a whopping total of 3 abilites. Level 70+ pvp is hardly simple in WoW.

The best thing about VTM: Bloodlines is how it won't run if you have 4+ GB of RAM.

Amaya wrote:

Melissia wrote:

metallifan wrote:the combat and gameplay in Gothic 4 is even more simplistic than WoW

Wow, that's pretty bad. I got bored with WoW in less than three days and had to struggle to finish my free trial time...

That's probably because you were under level 20 and had a whopping total of 3 abilites. Level 70+ pvp is hardly simple in WoW.

Sure, but saying PvP is harder than PvE when we're comparing boring PvE play in one game to boring PvE play in another just makes you look silly, silly, silly.

metallifan wrote:

Amaya wrote:

Melissia wrote:

metallifan wrote:the combat and gameplay in Gothic 4 is even more simplistic than WoW

Wow, that's pretty bad. I got bored with WoW in less than three days and had to struggle to finish my free trial time...

That's probably because you were under level 20 and had a whopping total of 3 abilites. Level 70+ pvp is hardly simple in WoW.

Sure, but saying PvP is harder than PvE when we're comparing boring PvE play in one game to boring PvE play in another just makes you look silly, silly, silly.

The only reason PvE is boring in WoW is because of the grind. Calling it simplistic is a mistake.

It's a grind because it's simplistic, and it's simplistic because it's a grind.

"click the mouse! press a button, get hit, press a button, enemy dead, loot dead body, rinse, repeat."

Not too far off the truth either. Sure, you've got dungeon runs with other players that spice things up, but that's about as relevant as saying "PVE in WoW isn't boring because PvP is hurrrd"

The single player side of WoW (The "grind") is horrendously dull and simplistic.

metallifan wrote:It's a grind because it's simplistic, and it's simplistic because it's a grind.

"click the mouse! press a button, get hit, press a button, enemy dead, loot dead body, rinse, repeat."

Not too far off the truth either. Sure, you've got dungeon runs with other players that spice things up, but that's about as relevant as saying "PVE in WoW isn't boring because PvP is hurrrd"

The single player side of WoW (The "grind") is horrendously dull and simplistic.

How did I say that? Have you ever played WoW? Every class uses at least 3-4 abilites routinely, more depending on the class/spec. It's boring at lower levels because you spam the same 1-2 abilities. If you do that at 50+ you're just bad.

Amaya wrote:

metallifan wrote:It's a grind because it's simplistic, and it's simplistic because it's a grind.

"click the mouse! press a button, get hit, press a button, enemy dead, loot dead body, rinse, repeat."

Not too far off the truth either. Sure, you've got dungeon runs with other players that spice things up, but that's about as relevant as saying "PVE in WoW isn't boring because PvP is hurrrd"

The single player side of WoW (The "grind") is horrendously dull and simplistic.

How did I say that? Have you ever played WoW? Every class uses at least 3-4 abilites routinely, more depending on the class/spec. It's boring at lower levels because you spam the same 1-2 abilities. If you do that at 50+ you're just bad.

I wouldn't say it's boring if I've never played it. I wouldn't speak from experience if I didn't have at least one maxed-level character (I actually had 3 70's by the time I quit playing), and I can still say that the solo PvE side of that game is Tedious. As. Hell.

Pressing between 3 and 6 buttons every few seconds, just waiting for that enemy to die. Oh, what fun.

metallifan wrote:

Amaya wrote:

metallifan wrote:It's a grind because it's simplistic, and it's simplistic because it's a grind.

"click the mouse! press a button, get hit, press a button, enemy dead, loot dead body, rinse, repeat."

Not too far off the truth either. Sure, you've got dungeon runs with other players that spice things up, but that's about as relevant as saying "PVE in WoW isn't boring because PvP is hurrrd"

The single player side of WoW (The "grind") is horrendously dull and simplistic.

How did I say that? Have you ever played WoW? Every class uses at least 3-4 abilites routinely, more depending on the class/spec. It's boring at lower levels because you spam the same 1-2 abilities. If you do that at 50+ you're just bad.

I wouldn't say it's boring if I've never played it. I wouldn't speak from experience if I didn't have at least one maxed-level character (I actually had 3 70's by the time I quit playing), and I can still say that the solo PvE side of that game is Tedious. As. Hell.

Pressing between 3 and 6 buttons every few seconds, just waiting for that enemy to die. Oh, what fun.

Every few seconds? GCD for rogues and cat form is 1.0. GCD for everyone else is 1.5 I can't think of one class that uses a spell with a cast time longer that 2.5 seconds in combat. Most are around 2.0 or faster. So how exactly are you only using abilities every few seconds? WoW isn't overly complicated, but it's nowhere near as simplistic as a lot of, if not most games out there, especially RPGs.

metallifan wrote:

Amaya wrote:

metallifan wrote:It's a grind because it's simplistic, and it's simplistic because it's a grind.

"click the mouse! press a button, get hit, press a button, enemy dead, loot dead body, rinse, repeat."

Not too far off the truth either. Sure, you've got dungeon runs with other players that spice things up, but that's about as relevant as saying "PVE in WoW isn't boring because PvP is hurrrd"

The single player side of WoW (The "grind") is horrendously dull and simplistic.

How did I say that? Have you ever played WoW? Every class uses at least 3-4 abilites routinely, more depending on the class/spec. It's boring at lower levels because you spam the same 1-2 abilities. If you do that at 50+ you're just bad.

I wouldn't say it's boring if I've never played it. I wouldn't speak from experience if I didn't have at least one maxed-level character (I actually had 3 70's by the time I quit playing), and I can still say that the solo PvE side of that game is Tedious. As. Hell.

Pressing between 3 and 6 buttons every few seconds, just waiting for that enemy to die. Oh, what fun.

Isn't that really simplistic, though? What game don't you press 4-5 buttons and wait for the enemy to die in

The ones where all you do is click your mouse button.

I'm looking at you TES.