Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I don't know about you guys, but I would like the Dark Angels Codex to be updated. I just feel the points are a little high on everything and there's not as much flexibility when it comes down to wargear for almost everything. I know its not the most popular of all the sm codicies, but I think gw owes it to us as their customers to update what could be a great codex. I was just wondering if you guys were thinking the same thing

Codex: Dark Angels has been showing its age since the last Codex: Space Marines was released.

Horizon, Codex: Dark Angels was literally updated a week ago with the new FAQ. Go check it out if you haven't already.

If it bothers you that much, just use the vanilla SM codex. There are books far more in need of an update than DA.

Cerebrium wrote:If it bothers you that much, just use the vanilla SM codex. There are books far more in need of an update than DA.

Fair enough, but what am i supposed to do about the character belial, Kinda central to deathwing armies like mine


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Fetterkey wrote:Horizon, Codex: Dark Angels was literally updated a week ago with the new FAQ. Go check it out if you haven't already.

I had no idea, thanks

play em "As Is" lol thats why my Dark Angels turned to Chaos.

Yeah...check out the FAQ everyone's freaking out about. You have the new Storm Shields now, among other things.

The Dark Angels tactical squads are still paying for things that the standard marines get for free, but yes, with the updates thunder hammer Belial and the Deathwing are brought to the same level as standard marines.

Remember, even though they're now have the standard rules for wargear (FNP thunder hammer command squad? nice) they are still a small elite army and they will have an uphill battle against most enemies. That said they are now only playing against the weakness of being a small elite army, not a small elite army with outdated rules.

Who cares which of the many, many MEQ codexes might be old? The Grey Plastic Marine Legions use them all so nobody runs anything except the flavor-of-the-month overpowered marine codex. Until a newer one comes out then suddenly everybody was a fan of them all along.

SumYungGui wrote:Who cares which of the many, many MEQ codexes might be old? The Grey Plastic Marine Legions use them all so nobody runs anything except the flavor-of-the-month overpowered marine codex. Until a newer one comes out then suddenly everybody was a fan of them all along.

This is sadly way too true. I mean, How many players around your area run SW lists? Or the slightly less new BA?
Although it does suck for people who legitimately DID play those armies for a long time. Hopefully you have some oldschool models to legitimize your claims

Freman Bloodglaive wrote:The Dark Angels tactical squads are still paying for things that the standard marines get for free...

Actually if you look at the price of the actual pieces of wargear, DA Tact squads are more or less on par in terms of cost. They also get Stubborn for free.

Deathwing has become very viable again with the updated rules. However if you desperately want to use the Redeemer, go with Space Wolf Loganwing.

To be fair, the FAQ "update" really helped out the DA codex by bringing some key wargear in line with C:SM.

While it still lags behind in some very important areas (tactical squad cost/options), it, I think, now makes up for it with its unique advantages (FnP scoring Terminators with TH/SS and Cyclone Missiles, for one.)

Every advantage has a fair tradeoff now, I think. 75 point Typhoons are an incredible bargain, but you can only take 1 per squad. Etc.

the whole ravenwing is pretty good i always thought?
no TB scout is fine to me as a DA ballance thing (TB full move with 1 bike unit, DS 10-15 TH/SS termies in = OP)

While the updated does help the DA be competitve, it doesn't change the fact that it is an old codex with restrictive options and wonky points costs.

It makes it into a 2-3 build book reliant on special characters. If you are playing them seriously you get to choose from, DW, RW, and double wing. You need at least one character to make these armies actually good (as DA tacticals just poorly optioned vanilla tacticals, and are the only basic troop option). An arguement can be had that a pure raven wing force can be built out of C:SM better and cheaper. So it is more like 2 builds, a Belial only double wing (samual is too expensive most of the time for cool but underwhelming abilities... 205 point landspeeder?) or a DW termie spam list.

The other builds without DW or RW are underwhelming and can be built better (due to better support options) by other books.

It's been showing its age since that last time someone complained about it.

Yes, there are old things in there, but look at the stuff we get that moat of the others don't: fearless terminators, terminators as troops, cheap venerable dreadnoughts, free multi-meltas on crusaders, special weapons in 5-man tactical squads, company vets with lots of power weapons.

So in other words, yes, we all know its old. Thanks for the update.

You know who else gets Terminators as Troops?

Loganwing.

Its just 145pts more expensive and w/o feel no pain....I think I can deal with the short-comings of the DA. Unlike most marine players, I have chapter loyalty

notabot187 wrote:as DA tacticals just poorly optioned vanilla tacticals, and are the only basic troop option).

Assult Marines can be taken as troop choices if you nix their jump pack. But otherwise, yeah, I agree >.<. But it's still fun to be a DA!

DA Terminators are actually pretty good now. FnP + +1 attack and SM termie costs with SW mixed squads. Personally I think that's pretty good, especially since Belial doesnt take a giant bite out of your points allowance like Logan does. Ravenwing is still nerfed. Cost about 25-30% more than normal SMs and their captain is only notable for his plasma cannon. 14 AV on a landspeeder is tasty tho.

Don't forget, DA still have a scoring Land Speeder. Our psychic hoods are still table wide. Have a Librarian on a bike sitting in the corner, and he effects psykers everywhere.

Nobody else has one. So use what you have to your best advantages. It may not be perfect, but make the best with what you can do. Is winning really that important to you with your plastic toy soldiers?

Horizon9 wrote:Its just 145pts more expensive and w/o feel no pain....I think I can deal with the short-comings of the DA. Unlike most marine players, I have chapter loyalty

FTW!!! thank you!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

Freman Bloodglaive wrote:The Dark Angels tactical squads are still paying for things that the standard marines get for free...

Actually if you look at the price of the actual pieces of wargear, DA Tact squads are more or less on par in terms of cost. They also get Stubborn for free.

Deathwing has become very viable again with the updated rules. However if you desperately want to use the Redeemer, go with Space Wolf Loganwing.

Dark Angels haven't gotten Stubborn since second edition...

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

Horizon9 wrote:Its just 145pts more expensive and w/o feel no pain....I think I can deal with the short-comings of the DA. Unlike most marine players, I have chapter loyalty

FTW!!! thank you!


Haha, no problem? The whole unforgiven seeking redemption thing called out to me over all the other chapters. Especially since Imperial Fists were out of the question (thanks dad....)

Fetterkey wrote:Horizon, Codex: Dark Angels was literally updated a week ago with the new FAQ. Go check it out if you haven't already.

Actually they were not. Tacticals are still more expansive, and thats even without combat tactics. Libbys still suck. Preds and Vindis costs 10pts more, so does dreads (they do have a cheaper but somewhat worse Ven upgrade).

So, DW got a massive boost (and typhoon speeders), all the other parts of the DA codex is still massively crap. DA is really a one build codex these days.

The Black Templar Codex is older than the DA one, so if any marine codex should be done after the Grey Knights, its us!

(Althoguh personally id rather they did necrons first!)

Davor wrote:Don't forget, DA still have a scoring Land Speeder. Our psychic hoods are still table wide. Have a Librarian on a bike sitting in the corner, and he effects psykers everywhere.

Nobody else has one. So use what you have to your best advantages. It may not be perfect, but make the best with what you can do. Is winning really that important to you with your plastic toy soldiers?

A scoring LS that is 100 points that is taken as part of the ravenwing, which requires you to take a 205 points land speeder or jetbike if you want it to score.

DA librarians are over costed, have LD 9, no options for powers, and their powers aren't good.

DH and WH would like to have a word with you about board wide hoods. The fact is that any IoM army can take a INQ lord and have a board wide LD 10 hood for 45 points before options (a cheap one is about 70 points)

If you are playing a game where you aren't at least trying to win, it isn't really fun for your opponent (and probably not all that enjoyable for you... it is a competition since it is a war game after all). So yes, winning is important enough to at least make the attempt.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:Dark Angels haven't gotten Stubborn since second edition...

My bad. Although a considerable number of them now have Fearless instead.

so if the codex were to be updated, we agree we want wargear on par cost wise and better librarians, maybe cheaper ravenwing? Any opinions on the characters the characters though? Feel like anyone is under/over powered?

DA is now a one-build codex as opposed to a 0 build codex. (We could probably argue that it's a 2-3 build codex, but entirely centered around DW and RW models)

Pretty much everything in the book other than Deathwing, or arguably Ravenwing is some combination of underpowered or overcosted or too limited options-wise.

The horribad status of their Librarians is an especial nerf, what with the necessity of some sort of psychic defense in today's armies. Ezekiel is the only one worth taking, but at 170 points he's not a fun mandatory addition.

Still, Dark Angel's main schtick of scoring Terminators is still best done by the Dark Angels codex. With the FAQ they are the undisputed masters of footslogging Terminator lists. Loganwing can do it, but can't do it as well once upgrades are thrown on. Loganwing can probably do a mixed foot list better just through the strength of missile spam and the option of combiweapons everywhere, but Deathwing is still going to be a better all-Terminator list.

So I guess take some comfort from knowing that the one thing that made Dark Angels really unique is still intact, and is still best done by Dark Angels. If you want to run a bunch of robed power armor dudes... well, there's always Counts-As.

Cerebrium wrote:If it bothers you that much, just use the vanilla SM codex. There are books far more in need of an update than DA.

Or one of the other SM codexes.

GW need to concentrate on Necrons, Tau and Eldar rather than more Space Marines.

True, they're more of my fluff army rather than competitive. That's what I have eldar for


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kilkrazy wrote:

Cerebrium wrote:If it bothers you that much, just use the vanilla SM codex. There are books far more in need of an update than DA.

Or one of the other SM codexes.

GW need to concentrate on Necrons, Tau and Eldar rather than more Space Marines.

Unfortunately, marines sell more than other armies generally speaking. But I do agree neurons are in need of an update. GW, all I want for my birthday are Merced monoliths