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So, my brother came home from Korea, and has been home for a week now. We made a deal: He would try Brutal Legend, and I would do one of two things: Explain to him why I haven't gone to college for video game making, or why I don't want to.

Well, he played Brutal Legend, and I told him; I didn't want to go to college for making games because it's my favorite (er, second favorte ) hobby. Yeah sure, I have a bunch of game ideas, but who doesn't? I want to make MY games, that wouldn't be possible as a cog in the machine of a studio, the odds of me being director are slim to none, and I'm not talented enough in all the feilds required to make a game by myself.

But after I told him that reason, he said it was a dumb reason, and that I should pursue it because your hobby SHOULD BE your job.

I just don't know, and I really need some advice on this.

I'm doing a fine arts degree in New Media, centered around character design for games and movies and the like, and I have to say that it sure as hell beats the crap out of those sorry ass business majors who are going to University just because that's what they're 'supposed' to do.

If you can find something you're good at that you enjoy and you can make money off of it, go for it. I had the marks and courses to be a fine engineer, but the work bored me to death. I'm glad I'm going down the path I chose, even if there will be some speed bumps along the way.

I'm going to disagree with Fafnir, however that is some sound advice. This is just my take on it (toss the salt over your shoulder now).

Personally, I would not make my hobby my job. If I take up a hobby, it's because I enjoy partaking in it on my free time in order to unwind or kill time or what have you. Working with said hobby 40+ hours a week can really start to wear your love of it. Soon you may become burnt out on it, and is it really a hobby at that point? I enjoy my job, but it certainly isn't a hobby, it's a job.

Of course, your proverbial mileage may vary.

Well, when I was working over the summer as an intern, I did a lot of really menial work (or just had times where I had nothing to do). It was absolutely boring as hell. Depressingly so.

But when I was given the chance to design the mascots for the United Way campaign, things got a lot better for me. The time where I got to do what I enjoyed (and get paid a sweet $20 an hour for it) was great, easily the best part of my time there.

I think you have to make a decision at one point: If you're going to turn it into a profession, you can't enjoy it like a hobby anymore. You can still enjoy it, but you need to have a deep passion for it. It's not something you'll be doing on the spare time to relieve stress, it'll be what you dedicate your life to. Your life's work.

And to be fair, I'd rather have something I can proudly dedicate my life to than a simple 'job.'
An engineer stops being an engineer when he punches out at 430 in the afternoon. I'm an artist 24 hours a day and 7 days a week, and I enjoy that.

I'm going to work in GW and go to college to get money... when I'm done with college I will switch to another job and continue miniature gaming as a hobby... (unless I don't find anything else)

Fafnir wrote:Well, when I was working over the summer as an intern, I did a lot of really menial work (or just had times where I had nothing to do). It was absolutely boring as hell. Depressingly so.

But when I was given the chance to design the mascots for the United Way campaign, things got a lot better for me. The time where I got to do what I enjoyed (and get paid a sweet $20 an hour for it) was great, easily the best part of my time there.

I think you have to make a decision at one point: If you're going to turn it into a profession, you can't enjoy it like a hobby anymore. You can still enjoy it, but you need to have a deep passion for it. It's not something you'll be doing on the spare time to relieve stress, it'll be what you dedicate your life to. Your life's work.

And to be fair, I'd rather have something I can proudly dedicate my life to than a simple 'job.'
An engineer stops being an engineer when he punches out at 430 in the afternoon. I'm an artist 24 hours a day and 7 days a week, and I enjoy that.

I call BS - most engineers knock off allot earlier than that!

Seriously though I went into construction because thats what I liked the idea of. Equally I could have gone into Law or gone to work for a bank in the city like everyone else I grew up with. I still like where I work but wouldn't mind the money I see less capable friends earning in the City. If you can live with that I don't think that it matter what you do.

Slarg232 wrote:So, my brother came home from Korea, and has been home for a week now. We made a deal: He would try Brutal Legend, and I would do one of two things: Explain to him why I haven't gone to college for video game making, or why I don't want to.

Well, he played Brutal Legend, and I told him; I didn't want to go to college for making games because it's my favorite (er, second favorte ) hobby. Yeah sure, I have a bunch of game ideas, but who doesn't? I want to make MY games, that wouldn't be possible as a cog in the machine of a studio, the odds of me being director are slim to none, and I'm not talented enough in all the feilds required to make a game by myself.

But after I told him that reason, he said it was a dumb reason, and that I should pursue it because your hobby SHOULD BE your job.

I just don't know, and I really need some advice on this.

Wait you're whining because you haven't gotten off your ass to get a job or got to school? You don't need advice. You just need Frazzled motivational therapy.

Here it comes. Get a pen.
GET A JOB!

I don't want to go to college for a hobby, because it is a hobby. My passion is designing buildings and psychology. If I were to go to college for a hobby, it probably would be for 3d rendering, so GW would make my faces and such.

But that's not gonna happen.

Frazzled speaks old man wisdom it's best to listen lol, but seriously I'd have to agree with CrashUSAR, I personally prefer to keep a hobby as a hobby, when you do it for a job you may find that you tire of it, it's similar to having a best friend who you live with as well as work with, eventually your going to get pissed off at how often you see this person and be annoyed by their very presence.

Well, I guess it depends on how much you really love it. If designing video games is just a hobby for you, then you probably should keep it that way. But if you really have a passion for it, take it to the next level and make it your career; if you really love it, making a career out of it won't ruin it.

Personal example: I'm just about done with highschool and I'm looking at going to school to study art.

At first art just started out as a hobby for me, just drawing and doodling in class. As I discovered, however, that I really had a passion for art, I became more serious about it; I started seeking out internships, practiced everyday. Becoming serious about my art didn't take any enjoyment out of it, if anything it's made it more enjoyable as it has opened doors for me.
Instead of being the kid who draws cool pictures in class, I started getting commisions -- legitimate, paying commisions-- to create things for people. So being serious about what I loved definitely didn't suck the enjoyment out of it, it just made me better at it and a few hundred bucks richer.

So personal anecdote aside, if you really love your hobby, turn it into something that you can do everyday and get paid for. You won't regret it.

Frazzled wrote:Wait you're whining because you haven't gotten off your ass to get a job or got to school? You don't need advice. You just need Frazzled motivational therapy.

Here it comes. Get a pen.
GET A JOB!

I have a job, I just don't have a career yet.

It's not so much that I like making games, I haven't tried yet, I just enjoy playing them. I suppose I could try to make a level or two of one of my games on Game Maker and decide if I enjoy that, that should tell me if I should or not without wasting time and money on college, right?

And so, I guess I descend into Hell. Cuz that's my game idea (INB4 Dante's Inferno Rip Off )

Well, there are a lot of different aspects of creating games to take into consideration. Are you into writing the code or whatever for the games? Or are you more into the conceptual aspect; creating characters, worlds, storylines, etc. ?

There's a host of different disciplines involved in creating a game: artists, programmers, writers, designers, etc. Video games are collaborative projects. You can't really do all of it.


And I'm no expert on this, not really my area of interest, so feel free to disregard.

doing something you dislike for a job = hell

doing something youre good at for a job = great

doing something you love for a job = awesome

Making a living out of your passion? = EPIC

the last two have very subtle but very important differences. to oversimplify a bit: you can love writing and make good money out of it and that would be awesome and youll probably keep on doing it (Stephen King). On the other hand, you can be earning pennies doing something you're passionate about, put yourself through hell but at the end of it all know you've accomplished something important (Jane Goodall).

One thing you have to watch out for is that you may like the idea of creating games but it may not be exactly what youre looking for. You may like to draw but you may not have the discipline or the drive to churn out 2-3 pages a day for a comic book. You may have video game ideas but you may not like working with programmers who will turn your video game idea into a reality.

I would suggest watching the "Extra Credits" videos in the Escapist Magazine website to get a good idea of what game designers are supposed to do. The videos are very entertaining and thought provoking

id post a link later when i get home as the site is blocked from work

rubiksnoob wrote:Well, there are a lot of different aspects of creating games to take into consideration. Are you into writing the code or whatever for the games? Or are you more into the conceptual aspect; creating characters, worlds, storylines, etc. ?

There's a host of different disciplines involved in creating a game: artists, programmers, writers, designers, etc. Video games are collaborative projects. You can't really do all of it.


And I'm no expert on this, not really my area of interest, so feel free to disregard.

I already have it conceptualized out, for the most part: Basic storyline is guy's soul gets dragged to hell, he naturally thinks he was unjustly put there, and starts working his way towards a tear in reality that he hears will open up, allowing him to escape back into the real world. As he is in Hell, it will be brutal and gory (I am thinking I am going to post a demo on the MK boards when I get them done, as no one is as bloodthirsty as a MK fan.)

However, Game Maker makes it easy to create simple, two dimensional games, which is what this game is going to be; a Castlevania esque game with a hint of Devil May Cry. There will be three playable characters, Gregory, the main one, and hopefully two others, one of which is like Mortal Kombat's Mileena thrown in a blender with Richter Belmont, and I am unsure of the other.

Now, it may not be creative to have a "Castlevania Esque game with a hint of DMC", but hey, it's the first game I am making in what could possibly be a career, right?

I could start a Blog about it in the Video Games section, if any of you guys are interested. Might keep me motivated to keep working on it. And of course, this is after my Noise Marine blog is finished.

I'm all for people chasing dreams, but understand what you're getting in to. You're a billion times more likely to succeed as a game designer by going to school for something else then working your way into it (you don't *need* a degree to design games). I have several friends who've worked on game design, one of them is a fething genius, and it still hasn't clicked for them yet and they've been going at it for a while. To say the market is flooded is a drastic understatement. Are you prepared to sell out something you might consider really special and change it to make it more marketable?

Two things:

A poet used to write to Rilke and Rilke responded with the following:

You ask whether your verses are any good. You ask me. You have asked others before this. You send them to magazines. You compare them with other poems, and you are upset when certain editors reject your work. Now (since you have said you want my advice) I beg you to stop doing that sort of thing. You are looking outside, and that is what you should most avoid right now. No one can advise or help you - no one. There is only one thing you should do. Go into yourself. Find out the reason that commands you to write; see whether it has spread its roots into the very depths of your heart; confess to yourself whether you would have to die if you were forbidden to write. This most of all: ask yourself in the most silent hour of your night: must I write?

Applied to your situation, must you write this game? If the answer is yes, then you must do it.

However, will the development of the game alone be enough to sustain you? If no, then
you're going to have to find work even as you spend time pursuing your creation.

The other part is, just because you have a passion doesn't mean that people will
want a part of it. So we might admire your game from afar but never pay you money
for it.

malfred wrote:

confess to yourself whether you would have to die if you were forbidden to write. This most of all: ask yourself in the most silent hour of your night: must I write?

FWIW, Gaga has this tattooed on her arm

It was also quoted in Sister Act 2, doesn't make it any less true.

I'm not doubting the truth, Gaga is incredibly successful There certainly exist degrees of passion.

Here is how I went about choosing a carrier.

First ask yourself these questions,

Do you want to get married?
Do you want to have kids?
Do you want to have a house?
Do you want to have a car?
How many cars do you want?
Do you want your cars to be brand new when you buy them or used?
Do you want to be able to take a vacation to somewhere sunny every year?
Do you want to have health insurance?
How many luxury items do you want?
What kind of lifestyle do I want to live (family man, upper society socialite, convention goer, etc)

After you have answered these questions figure out how big of a salary you would have to pull down to make it all happen.

Next, look for a job that pays that salary.

Then ask yourself (truthfully) am I smart/persistent enough to go through all the schooling I need to get this job.

If the answer is yes, then go to school, get learned, and get the job.

If the answer is no, then cross some things off the above list and try again.

The idea that every person should pursue their hobby as a carrier is bollocks, 99% of people are working for the weekend anyway and there is no shame in being one of them.

malfred wrote:Two things:

A poet used to write to Rilke and Rilke responded with the following:

You ask whether your verses are any good. You ask me. You have asked others before this. You send them to magazines. You compare them with other poems, and you are upset when certain editors reject your work. Now (since you have said you want my advice) I beg you to stop doing that sort of thing. You are looking outside, and that is what you should most avoid right now. No one can advise or help you - no one. There is only one thing you should do. Go into yourself. Find out the reason that commands you to write; see whether it has spread its roots into the very depths of your heart; confess to yourself whether you would have to die if you were forbidden to write. This most of all: ask yourself in the most silent hour of your night: must I write?

Applied to your situation, must you write this game? If the answer is yes, then you must do it.

However, will the development of the game alone be enough to sustain you? If no, then
you're going to have to find work even as you spend time pursuing your creation.

The other part is, just because you have a passion doesn't mean that people will
want a part of it. So we might admire your game from afar but never pay you money
for it.

That's a good criteria.

gak.

Chasing one's passion is a fine thing, but be very, very sure it's a passion, and not just a crush.

Polonius wrote:Chasing one's passion is a fine thing, but be very, very sure it's a passion, and not just a crush.

That's amazing advice. If someone had said that to me earlier in life I'd be better off.

Id say, as far as work goes, get into something you enjoy doing, but not a hobby/something you love doing. Simply because its like renting a place with your best friend. It starts off cool enough, but then a few months later, you suddenly have the urge to kill your best friend, because he pees on the toilet rim and doesnt clean it off, and never restocks the water bottles in the fridge.


If you enjoy being a mailman, thats awesome, youll like going to work, and be happy in life. That way you can go home, and further enjoy your real hobby

Keeping a hobby as a hobby is actually a studied phenomenon. In psychology you learn about overgratification.

You like playing videogames for example and have fun playing videogames, now if you were paid to play videogames you would feel guilty or stop enjoying videogames. Now designing videogames and playing them are two different things, just like playing 40k and designing 40k miniatures.

So playing videogames would still be your hobby, but your job would be to design them. Unless your hobby is actually making videogames you should be good.

You do realize how LONG you work as a game designer right? You would do nothing but design, and sleep....ish. No you time. Hell youd have to jerk off in the stall at work, and youd have to stare at the wall and hope the fuzzies you see will turn into a naked woman.

There's a lot to be said for just finding a decent paying career that you're good at, and making the best of it.

I mean, I didn't exactly grow up dreaming I'd some day basically be a modern day scribe, writing judge's decisions for them in a disability hearing office. But I work with good people, it's low stress, good pay, and the work is more interesting than you'd' think.

KingCracker wrote:You do realize how LONG you work as a game designer right? You would do nothing but design, and sleep....ish. No you time. Hell youd have to jerk off in the stall at work, and youd have to stare at the wall and hope the fuzzies you see will turn into a naked woman.

So he won't have to worry about a hobby then, that's good news!

Slarg232 wrote:I want to make MY games, that wouldn't be possible as a cog in the machine of a studio, the odds of me being director are slim to none, and I'm not talented enough in all the feilds required to make a game by myself.

I have to respect the OP's clarity of vision. I have an acquaintance who's going to school to join the videogame industry. From him I constantly hear "When I make my game I'll do this." and "When I make my game it won't have that." and "When I make my game you'll have to do this." and so on. Unheard are everyone's comments on exactly how or why such things are (or aren't) in the games already, or that there's very little chance that there will be a videogame that he'll be able to call "mine", instead of "our" (Not to mention pretty much all of his ideas are just terribad). He's a great artist, but he's woefully, woefully ignorant of the real world.

Understanding that you'll probably not be the sole creative force of anything as complex as a videogame is key to choosing your career. If you won't be happy doing things for somebody else because you disagree with it (creatively) is a sure fire way to tell when you shouldn't make something so personal a profession.

I once thought it would be sweet to get paid for being an ice cream taster. Somebody a lot older than me (maybe my parents, I can't remember) told me that I would end up hating ice cream, and consequently my job as an ice cream taster.

It wasn't until I tried to eat as much ice cream as possible that I realized I could have too much ice cream.

So instead of seeking out a career in ice cream tasting, I left ice cream as a part time hobby and now have (will have in three months) a sweet job getting paid to do something enjoyable with great people in a great environment. But its not my favorite thing in the world either. The days are often long and the work tough, but there's a satisfaction in working at something and completing it, particularly if you do enjoy your work.

School sucks though. And now the Masters degree is the new Undergrad. FML.

The moral of the story is don't become an ice cream taster because you'll end up lactose intolerant.