can an immobalised dread be picked up by a stormraven?

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**fox40**

can an immobalised dread be picked up by a stormraven?
this came up in a game last night. the storm raven was within 2 inches of the dread. i imagined the mana grapple coming downn and picking the dread up.

**motorhead1945**

I don't think so... afaik, a transported unit has to move into the transporting vehicle.
However I consider your thesis to be RaI.

**Kilkrazy**

motorhead1945 wrote:I don't think so... afaik, a transported unit has to move into the transporting vehicle.
However I consider your thesis to be RaI.

The main rulebook only covers infantry units embarking/disemarking, which can't be immobilised.

It depends on the special rules for the Stormraven.

**belial**

I would have thought the answer would be no, based on the fact the a Dreadnought moves the same way as infantry. To embark on a vehicle it has to move to within 2" of the vehicle. It cannot do this due to being immobilised.

**lliadon**

but what if you move the storm raven to be within the 2 inches required to embark...then how would that factor into the question

however i do feel that it not be possible to have the dread embark on a storm raven when immobilized

**Bookwrack**

The transport moving within 2" of the model is not the same thing as the model moving within 2" of the transport.

**nosferatu1001**

lliadon wrote:but what if you move the storm raven to be within the 2 inches required to embark...then how would that factor into the question

however i do feel that it not be possible to have the dread embark on a storm raven when immobilized

It makes absolutely NO difference whatsoever.

A unit has to move within 2", which it cannot do.

**fox40**

if a unit has to move within 2 " then how is it you can move a say a rhino within 2" and the squad can get in? the squad didnt move.
The dread is a different case in reality cos it is picked up, it doesnt get in.

I personally believe the real life answer would be yes it can be picked up or grappled by the raven but i also believe within the spirit of 40k its a no.

**Scott-S6**

If the squad had already moved could you move the rhino within 2" and have them embark?

No, because they have to move to embark.

**Galador**

Isn't embarkation movement itself??? So if its immobilised, it can't move, hence it can't embark. just my 2 cents.

**Lord Rogukiel**

Rule wise: no
Fluff wise: yes

**Mannahnin**

Fluff wise it would make sense, but as everyone else said, within the rules of 40k the embarking unit has to move to get into the transport. And an immobilized dread can't move, so it can't embark.

**dayve110**

A wierder one is what if the dread in question is a psyker, and immobises itself while embarked. And then the stormraven gets destroyed.

As for the OP, see everyone else above. But if my opponent wanted to embark with his immobile dread due to fluff reasons, and it was a casual game, i wouldn't really mind, depending on if his dread disembarked at the front, or the back, of the stormraven when he initially disembarked.

**djdutton**

I could see it going both ways. Really, we will just have to wait for GW to make the call.

**fox40**

thanks for all the answers.
additional question: can an immobalised librarian dread use wings of sanguinious to move?

**Shenra**

No, because Wings of Sanguis just increases its range, and gives it flight...even with those two improvements it's still immoblized and cant move.

**Phototoxin**

If the squad had already moved could you move the rhino within 2" and have them embark?

No, because they have to move to embark.

Yes because it's still the movement phase. You could move the tank first then move the squad 6" to within 2" and get in.

**Mannahnin**

Phototoxin, the scenario you just quoted specifies that the squad already moved before the transport did.

**Galador**

Mannahnin wrote:Phototoxin, the scenario you just quoted specifies that the squad already moved before the transport did.

well, if the squad had already moved and the rhino moves up, wouldn't that be counted as having moved within 2" seeing as they both moved???

**forkbanger**

Galador wrote:well, if the squad had already moved and the rhino moves up, wouldn't that be counted as having moved within 2" seeing as they both moved???

The squad must embark during their movement.
Moving the squad, then moving the Rhino, then moving the squad again to embark isn't allowed.

**Mannahnin**

forkbanger wrote:
Galador wrote:well, if the squad had already moved and the rhino moves up, wouldn't that be counted as having moved within 2" seeing as they both moved???

The squad must embark during their movement.
Moving the squad, then moving the Rhino, then moving the squad again to embark isn't allowed.

Exactly. Embarking is part of that unit's movement. The rules forbid moving one unit, moving another unit, then going back and moving the first unit again.

**Galador**

So, basically, bottom line is to make sure that you move the Rhino first lol!

@forkbanger
I wasn't suggesting to move the squad again, I meant that if once the squad had moved, and then the rhino had moved, that if they were all within 2" of the access points they could embark. Sorry if that was unclear.

@forkbanger again
Think I misunderstood you on what you were saying, but left up my original part just in case I didn't, but I just thought of that maybe you were meaning because embarking was the second move??

**Mannahnin**

Yes, move the Rhino first; unless you're sure that the unit can all reach the hatches with a 6" move +2" distance.

Embarking is considered to be part of a unit's movement, so you would be splitting their movement if you did the 6" move, moved another unit, then tried to do the embarkation.

**Kyvik**

Can a pinned unit embark into a transport that moves within 2 inches of the unit? Therein lies your answer.

(no rule book handy, or I would answer my own question)

**puma713**

Why is a raven like a writing desk?

**Galador**

This brings up another question, which I'm sure I'm right on, but will pose it seeing as its relevant here and people at my FLGS want to disagree with me.....

I play that if the edge of your base closest to the vehicle is WITHIN 2" (using the definition on pg 3) then you can embark. I also use the same rules when disembarking, hence both myself and my opponent effectively get a 3" deployment as you must disembark WITHIN 2" of the hull of the vehicle. However, I have had many people try and argue that the whole base must be within 2", even after being show the illustrations on embarking and disembarking, and the definition on pg 3.

I really think they are wrong and I am correct, but if I'm missing something, someone please let me know!!

**Mannahnin**

They are morons. It's worked the exact same way since 1998, and in every edition of the rules GW makes it MORE and MORE clear. I don't think it can possibly get clearer than the diagrams and definitions on pages 3 and 67.

One verbal illustration I used to use with people back in the 3rd ed days was to tell them it's "within" as in "within arm's reach", not "within my belly". If I'm within arm's reach I am close enough to touch, not at hugging distance.

You could also go to the extent of trying a physical demonstration of why their interpretation cannot be correct. Taking a unit of 12 Eldar models and a Wave Serpent, or a unit of 12 IG models and a Chimera, and ask them to try to physically fit all 12 models fully within 2" of the single hatch on either of those vehicles.

**kmdl1066**

With one caveat (sp?):

You have to move within 2" of the access points to embark and disembark within 2" of one of the access points. Not hull.

**Mannahnin**

Unless it's open-topped.

**kmdl1066**

And it even says "any point" not hull for open topped vehicles. So I guess orc vehicles with all kinds of awesome sticky-out-bits have quite an embark/disembark area?