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...the Machine Spirit of an imperial vehicle, regardless of shape or size? And if so, how?

With a powerful magnet.

Install Windows.

UselessSage wrote:Install Windows Vista.

Fixed.

Windows Vista requires too many system resources to run on a Machine Spirit.

Seriously though, the Machine Spirit is just some kind of low level AI. If you can find out where its power switch is, you can kill it.

Ronin wrote:

UselessSage wrote:Install Windows.

Fixed.

Fixed again

Ronin wrote:

UselessSage wrote:Install Windows Vista.

Fixed.

That's a good one


Okay in all seriousness, is it possible and if so, how can it be done? Oh and would the vehicle still be functional?

The vehicle would still run. Imperial vehicles usually are driven by a driver. The Machine Spirit is only there in a few types.

Okay so, what about the Machine Spirit of a Titan?

Certain technology can corrupt or destroy the Machine Spirit, such as Chaos or Necron tech.

Kilkrazy wrote:Windows Vista requires too many system resources to run on a Machine Spirit.

Seriously though, the Machine Spirit is just some kind of low level AI. If you can find out where its power switch is, you can kill it.

All the while, the Machine Spirit is trying just as hard to kill you

Juvieus Kaine wrote:Okay so, what about the Machine Spirit of a Titan?

The machine spirit of a Titan is far too important to the machine's functioning. The AIs of titans are so advanced that titans are half-sentient beings, with their own personalities, memories, etc. So if you kill the AI of the titan, you shut down the titan itself.

First of all, the functioning of a titan is far too complex to be performed by the titan crew alone. If it was not for the MIU support provided by the titan systems, human crews would not be able to operate the titan.

Second of all, the destruction of the titan AI would probably cause a deep trauma in the mind of its crew, which would mean that the titan princeps, moderati, etc would certainly have severe brain lesions or even get killed by the destruction of the Titan's AI.


However, this question is purely academic, since I don't see many ways of destroying a titan's machine spirit without destroying the titan itself.

If the machine spirit has so much effect on its crews minds does it begin melding them to that titan and only that titan? (I dont know much about titans) So would they be able to switch titans after a long career with theirs?

After a very long career with the same titan (centuries of operational combat), a princeps' mind can effectively get absorbed into the Titan's AI. He gradually fuses with his own titan, leaving his body behind. His mind is then sometimes encountered by the new princeps when he connects himself to the titan. I guess moderati, steerman and sensori can experience the same thing, but after centuries of active service, all titan crews are effectively princeps commanding their own titan.

However, titan crews can be assigned to a new titan (it seems to be quite rare though), although it usually takes some time for them to get used to their new machine's spirit. In fact, it also takes some time for their machine's spirit to get used to their new crew.
Reassigning a new crew to a titan is always a delicate operation because:

a) It usually takes place after the death of a previous crew member, thus the machine's spirit is usually in mourning and reluctant to accept the new crew

b) It is possible that the titan will not fully cooperate with its new crew, effectively rejecting them (yes, titan can be bitchy )

So is a titan like a temporary dreadnaught? all the fluid and crap just not the life-support and the crew can abandon the titan if need be.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:So is a titan like a temporary dreadnaught? all the fluid and crap just not the life-support and the crew can abandon the titan if need be.

Kinda.

It depends on which titan actually.

First of all, in the case of Emperor and Warlord titans, the princeps is locked in an "amniotic casket". It is some kind of aquarium where he is connected to his titan. The Princeps is actually locked in his casket, just like fishy in his aquarium. Really similar to a dread in fact. Except that the princeps still has its limbs and the casket is large enough to allow him to move relatively freely. The casket can be removed from the titan. But still, it would be pretty hard for him to escape the titan in an emergency. But all titans' heads are can eject from their body, saving the valuable crew if the titan starts blowing up.

And a warlord or emperor princeps seems to be able to return to a normal life out of his personal aquarium. It just seems to be painful and dangerous, since he lost the habit of breathing real air and moving out of a liquid.

With Warhounds and Reavers, the princeps is just seating in the titan's head, and connected to his titan via some cables plugged in the back of his head, exactly like the rest of his crew. A bit like in the film Matrix. So, they can quite easily leave the titan, if need be.

BoyMac wrote:

Ronin wrote:

UselessSage wrote:Install Windows.

Fixed.

Fixed again

BoyMac,

Ronin may have a point, but not the one he thought. While any version of Windows would kill a Machine Spirit, Windows ME for instance would most likely result in immediate demonic possession.

Laodamia wrote:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:So is a titan like a temporary dreadnaught? all the fluid and crap just not the life-support and the crew can abandon the titan if need be.

Kinda.

It depends on which titan actually.

First of all, in the case of Emperor and Warlord titans, the princeps is locked in an "amniotic casket". It is some kind of aquarium where he is connected to his titan. The Princeps is actually locked in his casket, just like fishy in his aquarium. Really similar to a dread in fact. Except that the princeps still has its limbs and the casket is large enough to allow him to move relatively freely. The casket can be removed from the titan. But still, it would be pretty hard for him to escape the titan in an emergency. But all titans' heads are can eject from their body, saving the valuable crew if the titan starts blowing up.

And a warlord or emperor princeps seems to be able to return to a normal life out of his personal aquarium. It just seems to be painful and dangerous, since he lost the habit of breathing real air and moving out of a liquid.

With Warhounds and Reavers, the princeps is just seating in the titan's head, and connected to his titan via some cables plugged in the back of his head, exactly like the rest of his crew. A bit like in the film Matrix. So, they can quite easily leave the titan, if need be.

Ok cool, thanks for all of the info. It would make since as the class of titan goes up the more attached to it you are.

For instance if you are the princeps of an imperator titan and you get it blown up you either;
A.) Blow up with it killing as many of the Emperors enemies as possible.
B.) Eject, MAYBE survive and get executed for getting one of the most powerful weapons known to man destroyed.

UselessSage wrote:

BoyMac wrote:

Ronin wrote:

UselessSage wrote:Install Windows.

Fixed.

Fixed again

BoyMac,

Ronin may have a point, but not the one he thought. While any version of Windows would kill a Machine Spirit, Windows ME for instance would most likely result in immediate demonic possession.

BoyMac is an Apple User; so all forms of Windows are alien and dangerous too him; that was his joke.

Of course if you installed OS9 or 10 the TMachine spirit would randomly lock up; and probably wouldn't recognize, nor be compatable with most of it's own systems. At least with any Windows Version even uninstalling a tageting program would keep the program in memory and allow you to "roll back" the drivers, etc, to allow the weapons to be fired.

Also A windows OS Machine spirit would be twice as powerful while costing 1/4-1/3 as much and be upgradable.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:

Laodamia wrote:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:So is a titan like a temporary dreadnaught? all the fluid and crap just not the life-support and the crew can abandon the titan if need be.

Kinda.

It depends on which titan actually.

First of all, in the case of Emperor and Warlord titans, the princeps is locked in an "amniotic casket". It is some kind of aquarium where he is connected to his titan. The Princeps is actually locked in his casket, just like fishy in his aquarium. Really similar to a dread in fact. Except that the princeps still has its limbs and the casket is large enough to allow him to move relatively freely. The casket can be removed from the titan. But still, it would be pretty hard for him to escape the titan in an emergency. But all titans' heads are can eject from their body, saving the valuable crew if the titan starts blowing up.

And a warlord or emperor princeps seems to be able to return to a normal life out of his personal aquarium. It just seems to be painful and dangerous, since he lost the habit of breathing real air and moving out of a liquid.

With Warhounds and Reavers, the princeps is just seating in the titan's head, and connected to his titan via some cables plugged in the back of his head, exactly like the rest of his crew. A bit like in the film Matrix. So, they can quite easily leave the titan, if need be.

Ok cool, thanks for all of the info. It would make since as the class of titan goes up the more attached to it you are.

For instance if you are the princeps of an imperator titan and you get it blown up you either;
A.) Blow up with it killing as many of the Emperors enemies as possible.
B.) Eject, MAYBE survive and get executed for getting one of the most powerful weapons known to man destroyed.

Read Titanicus, it addresses much of this.

Princeps are the only crew member actually connected to the MIU and thus the Titan's personality only affects them (I'm not entirely sure, but I'm very, very confident that no other crew member is actually linked into the machine at all. I know for a fact that the moderati is not.). Princeps don't use amniotic casks in any titan until separation from the MIU becomes too destructive to his mind (this gets worse the more seperations that priceps has gone through and also with age). It is common for any Emperator Titan to have a princeps in an amniotic cask because only the most experienced make it that far. Usually by that time they are old and have separated from titan MIUs many times and for those reasons have been forced to make use of casks.

A princeps can be assigned to another titan for a list of reasons. Their titan was destroyed or a titan's priceps was killed leading to their promotion to a new titan. It can be done, but is difficult for all parties involved. This is due to the fact that each type of titans (and indeed each titan individually) have perceptible behavior traits (Reavers are lone-wolf types, Emperators are very haughty) that begin to affect it's princeps over time. Also over time, a princeps comes to be more in touch with that titan's personality, and this is what accounts for the pain of MIU separation.

So this melding of minds..... would the princeps also begin to feel what the titan feels? If it were to be shot by a huge bio-titan projectile would the princeps feel the acid burning a the armor and various parts of the titan?

xXSir MontyXx wrote:So this melding of minds..... would the princeps also begin to feel what the titan feels? If it were to be shot by a huge bio-titan projectile would the princeps feel the acid burning a the armor and various parts of the titan?

Yes, the MIU causes this. The princeps feels a scaled equivalent of what the titan feels. That is to say that if a titan were shot in the midcarriage and sustained little to no lasting damage, the princeps would feel it as if he were punched in the stomach.

-Cypher- wrote:
Princeps are the only crew member actually connected to the MIU and thus the Titan's personality only affects them (I'm not entirely sure, but I'm very, very confident that no other crew member is actually linked into the machine at all.

Not totally true. Princeps are definitely not the only titan crews to be connected to the titan. Unless you meant that they were the only ones to be connected to the titan's MIU?
Nevertheless, ALL titan crews (apart from the tech priest) are connected to the titan. It might not be an MIU connection, but they are hard-plugged to the war-engine.

-Cypher- wrote:Princeps don't use amniotic casks in any titan until separation from the MIU becomes too destructive to his mind (this gets worse the more seperations that priceps has gone through and also with age).

This is definitely wrong. Amniotic caskets are simply the mean by which warlord and emperor princeps are connected to their machine. It is not a device meant to reduce the pain caused by the MIU separation. All warlords and emperor titans are interned in an amniotic casket, whatever their experience. For instance, in Titanicus, princeps Prinzhorn is only 18 (it could be 19 or 20, can't remember his exact age) when he receives the princepture of Dominatus Victrix, a Warlord Titan. It is his first princepture and yet, he is already locked in an amniotic casket.

Laodamia wrote:

-Cypher- wrote:
Princeps are the only crew member actually connected to the MIU and thus the Titan's personality only affects them (I'm not entirely sure, but I'm very, very confident that no other crew member is actually linked into the machine at all.

Not totally true. Princeps are definitely not the only titan crews to be connected to the titan. Unless you meant that they were the only ones to be connected to the titan's MIU?
Nevertheless, ALL titan crews (apart from the tech priest) are connected to the titan. It might not be an MIU connection, but they are hard-plugged to the war-engine.

No. At least not according to Titanicus. I know for a fact that the moderati stands next to the princeps and is not connected at all (there is a scene in the book in which a titan takes damage which is felt keenly by the princeps; the moderati then turns towards the cask and leans against it gazing in to see the princeps writhing and hemorrhaging blood) to the titan. The other crew members may be hard-plugged, but yes, not to the MIU.

Laodamia wrote:

-Cypher- wrote:Princeps don't use amniotic casks in any titan until separation from the MIU becomes too destructive to his mind (this gets worse the more seperations that priceps has gone through and also with age).

This is definitely wrong. Amniotic caskets are simply the mean by which warlord and emperor princeps are connected to their machine. It is not a device meant to reduce the pain caused by the MIU separation. All warlords and emperor titans are interned in an amniotic casket, whatever their experience. For instance, in Titanicus, princeps Prinzhorn is only 18 (it could be 19 or 20, can't remember his exact age) when he receives the princepture of Dominatus Victrix, a Warlord Titan. It is his first princepture and yet, he is already locked in an amniotic casket.

Not according to Mechanicus. A princeps frequently worries that it will not be long before he is forced to be interred in an amniotic cask due to his seperation pains. The author tells us through his thoughts about how that process all happens. This may have changed since the time-period of that book though seeing as it was pre-heresy.

*Edited to fix quotes.

Kommissar Kel wrote:

UselessSage wrote:

BoyMac wrote:

Ronin wrote:

UselessSage wrote:Install Windows.

Fixed.

Fixed again

BoyMac,

Ronin may have a point, but not the one he thought. While any version of Windows would kill a Machine Spirit, Windows ME for instance would most likely result in immediate demonic possession.

BoyMac is an Apple User; so all forms of Windows are alien and dangerous too him; that was his joke.

Of course if you installed OS9 or 10 the TMachine spirit would randomly lock up; and probably wouldn't recognize, nor be compatable with most of it's own systems. At least with any Windows Version even uninstalling a tageting program would keep the program in memory and allow you to "roll back" the drivers, etc, to allow the weapons to be fired.

Also A windows OS Machine spirit would be twice as powerful while costing 1/4-1/3 as much and be upgradable.

An Win32 or Win64 machine spirit would have the reliability of Orkoid hardware utilised by a non-Orkoid. A machine spirit with OSX installed would most likely find itself in thrall to the Tau. If I had to guess I would say the Necron's prefer OpenBSD and the AdMech choose FreeBSD.

-Cypher- wrote:Not according to Mechanicus. A princeps frequently worries that it will not be long before he is forced to be interred in an amniotic cask due to his seperation pains. The author tells us through his thoughts about how that process all happens. This may have changed since the time-period of that book though seeing as it was pre-heresy.

All right, I guess the fluff is simply a bit contradictory about it then. As you said, it could also be that the use of amniotic caskets changed. In titanicus, they are said to be a relatively new system compared to the Reaver and Warhound systems.

-Cypher- wrote:No. At least not according to Titanicus. I know for a fact that the moderati stands next to the princeps and is not connected at all (there is a scene in the book in which a titan takes damage which is felt keenly by the princeps; the moderati then turns towards the cask and leans against it gazing in to see the princeps writhing and hemorrhaging blood) to the titan. The other crew members may be hard-plugged, but yes, not to the MIU.

The moderati is connected. We can find many examples proving this in titanicus. Here is a scene where moderati Tarses experiences the crippling of his titan by an eldar war machine:

"Pain shot me through the MIU link. It was so fierce, I had to unplug before it killed me." - Page 79.

Unfortunately, his princeps, locked in his casket, experienced the full scale of the titan's pain and lost consciousness. So Moderati are linked to their titan, but they cannot feel the titan's emotions to the same extent as a princeps would.

You could install a MAC OS. It woudn't die, but it would only be compatible with las pistols.

In all seriousness though, an EMP blast would be useful.

Fairly certain most Titans are shielded against EMPs...
Though if you could get one out somehow then it would probably fry it...

Not everything thought to have a Machine Spirit actually does; this is where the Mechanicum gets needlessly superstitious. An autogun, for example, is just a collection of moving parts.

Nothing can kill a Titan.