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The Cryx unit Revenant crew- how do you destroy it without having to wipe it out in 1 turn? By my reading as long as the unit leader is on the table during the Cryx Maintenance phase all the destroyed crew come back (as long as they were in command during the last turn). Since you automatically promote a grunt to a unit leader the instant the original unit leader is destroyed it seems to me that the whole unit needs to be wiped out in 1 turn or else it just comes back. Am I missing something or is there some tactic out there to stop this unit?

When a grunt is promoted the counter is reset. If the last model you destroy in the unit is the leader no Revenants will return.

I'm itching to try out 13 man units of Revenant Crew with the new Revenant Rifleman, especially under Terminus' theme.

Not that I doubt you but, where can I find that in the rules? I'm not the Cryx player so I feel obligated to show him the proper rule that says that you can only bring back the people you lost while the last leader was in play.

I'm pretty sure that would be under field promotions. Specifically the bit where the new leader only has tokens/wounds/whatever that the promoted grunt had.

"If the Unit Commander leaves play, remove from play all destroyed Grunts not yet returned to play. THEN choose a new unit commander."

Usually it's: kill grunts, next maintenance phase return grunts.

So kill unit commander, promote grunt. No models returned next phase. (Unit commander is not a grunt)

Kill grunts, kill unit commander. Remove the killed grunts from play. Promote one of the remaining grunts. No models returned next maintenance phase.

I think that's how it works.

Thank you both. It's actually in the ability itself. During the game I didn't get a chance to really read the card now that I have some time I see where all this is spelled out.

That's why you have to hide the Quartermaster behind Terminus or a cloud.
I have used Gorman as a cloud generator for the QM to keep him safe.

Pretty much the gamble is "How many can I kill before I try for the QM".
I have had opponents get greedy on killing the rest of the unit, and only have one shot on the QM.
If that shot fails, Bam, whole unit comes back.

I too look forward to adding riflemen and running Terminus' Tier list.
Though I noticed that having everything but him and his battlegroup incorporeal leaves him real vulnerable to early ranged attacks.

wouldn't the fastest way (assuming you have LOS to all models) be to kill the leader, then the new leader, then the new leader etc?

Also, what happens if the leader and a grunt get taken out by simultaneous attacks?

skrulnik wrote:That's why you have to hide the Quartermaster behind Terminus or a cloud.
I have used Gorman as a cloud generator for the QM to keep him safe.

Pretty much the gamble is "How many can I kill before I try for the QM".
I have had opponents get greedy on killing the rest of the unit, and only have one shot on the QM.
If that shot fails, Bam, whole unit comes back.

I too look forward to adding riflemen and running Terminus' Tier list.
Though I noticed that having everything but him and his battlegroup incorporeal leaves him real vulnerable to early ranged attacks.

He's got flight and armor 24 anyway (he's not casting spells or handing out focus) so there's not much that will do more than plink him.

Terminus + infantry in general is fairly nasty. Add the crew, probably some cheaper infantry, Terminus lives for a long time unless you can really lock him down.

Requia wrote:wouldn't the fastest way (assuming you have LOS to all models) be to kill the leader, then the new leader, then the new leader etc?

Also, what happens if the leader and a grunt get taken out by simultaneous attacks?

It would. That's why finding a way to block LOS is so important for them.
In my experience, in the first game opponents will kill a few grunts not realizing the abilities, see them come back and spend the next turn shooting as much as possible at the Rev Crew.
Then as they get familiar with the unit, they become less and less effective.
I would hate to face the MHSF. Absolutely no way to keep the QM safe after first turn.

@12thRonin First game with the Terminus Tier list, opponent took 9 off him with a Destroyer.
If he had more ranged attacks, I would have been in trouble.

Especially if you throw rengrave into the mix.

skrulnik wrote:
@12thRonin First game with the Terminus Tier list, opponent took 9 off him with a Destroyer.
If he had more ranged attacks, I would have been in trouble.

You weren't camping focus then, were you?

even worse, he had no sacrificial pawn nearby.

Bad terminus players, bad...

Tier list for Terminus only allows Revenant, Bloodgorger, and soulhunter units.
All revenants are Incorporeal turn 1 and only undead can be Sac Pawn'd. So nothing available for it.

Still won after opponent's two jacks with 7 focus failed to kill him. (One jack was bonded to Irusk).

You can't sac pawn an incorporeal model?

Assuming all Sac pawn rules follow the same basic- Under Kovnik Jo (Khador) it says "...you can choose to have one friendly, non-incorporeal...". So it appears that you have to be solid to be a pawn.

Ah! I didn't know that.

easiest way to kill the revenant crew is to have a jack with reach, do a trample power attack on them. Then you get an attack on each one who's base you cross, you stop at the leader, but with reach, you can stop up to two inches away, and whack him with an additional attack (meaning you need at least two focus on that jack) If you have a good spell on him (I play menoth and like Iron Aggresion via Reznik) you can get boosted attack roles so all those trample attacks hit! If the crew didn't fire during their last turn, and thus are incorperal, you can't trample, but a magic weapon (either the jack has it, which are few, or you need a caster with a spell to grant it) and you are good to go. The Avatar of menoth works well against these guys. I will admit that if your oponnet is playing the crew right, that means commiting a big asset to a flank, but I recomend you take it slow until you lock down the crew anyway, as one unforseen shot from them on your caster could be a bad day for you!

Not everyone is going to leave a 2" space next to their REvenant leader.

Yeah, but you can trample through him and boost that hit if you don't have space. And I'm just saying that it's a good way to kill numerous members of the crew, with the trample on the way in, but still have plenty of attacks after Since he can be forced for 2 or 3 more attacks after the intial trample to kill the rev leader with if he can stop with him still in his front arc. It is a particularlly effective way to damage them quickly. Down side is for it to be effective you gotta wait for them to shoot you, which ain't so great!

If you use a heavy then you should be able to take the shot and effectively make the attack next turn!

INFBlue13 wrote:Yeah, but you can trample through him and boost that hit if you don't have space.

No, you can't. You move first, then make attacks, so unless there's sufficient open space to place the trampling model initially, you can't trample to that location.

I never did get an answer on the simultaneous hit thing, what happens if you nail the leader with an AOE and take a couple of his LOS blocking models with?

I would imagine that the grunts would not return. The rule implies that they only return under their current leader. Since at the time of their re-death their leader was whoever and he died with them then none of them come back. Also please note that they do not do field promotions until the start of their next maintenance phase per the ability so any one you kill after the leader will also not come back since there is no leader to put their markers upon.

Ah, I wasn't aware of the delayed field promotion. That does make it fairly obvious.

No, field promotion works for revenants the same way as every other unit.

Re-read Deathbound.

I imagine the timing appendix of the MkII rulebook would be useful in resolving your question.
I expect that all casualties are removed from play, since the model that was leader when they were hit and damaged is no longer there.

malfred wrote:Not everyone is going to leave a 2" space next to their REvenant leader.

I do, I call it Terminus' base.

hey, I get it, I'm saying if you don't have room, you trample him too! and boost the crap outta that attack! or trample from the side to find a better hole. You might have to actually stage it the round before by sending multiple possible jacks that way, and using just one when you attack. Most people who play the crew spread them out anyway, so it will likely not be a problem.

I'm saying that trample is my favorite way to deal with them because most of the time it works well for me, if you can't figure out how that might be good advice, feel free to ignore it.!

INFBlue13 wrote:hey, I get it, I'm saying if you don't have room, you trample him too! and boost the crap outta that attack! or trample from the side to find a better hole. You might have to actually stage it the round before by sending multiple possible jacks that way, and using just one when you attack. Most people who play the crew spread them out anyway, so it will likely not be a problem.

I'm saying that trample is my favorite way to deal with them because most of the time it works well for me, if you can't figure out how that might be good advice, feel free to ignore it.!

I'm just saying that trampling because you "think" you have 2" of round space
between crew members is risky. You can't trample perfectly, it must be in a
straight line. You don't get to pre-measure the trample outside of checking
your control area. If you declare the trample and the trample fails, you're down
at least one focus point and your jack ends in base contact with a revenant,
accomplishing nothing.

plus opponents will see it coming unless you have a very large speed. And I am thinking vlad's jacks under feat speed. (8 inch plus 3 inch for the trample.) I do not know if there are models that can do a trample from further away or go further, but that is something that could make it to the leader and kill him. most tramples end after 7 or 8 inch and that will most likely not bring you past the leader if the opponent was smart to spread out in the right way...

For me I leave the leader of the unit as far behind as I can, possibly protected by something that can't be trampled. (think node or stalker or a brute, maybe even eskarres feat, anything like that.)