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Don't know the points of the units sadly but I'm a new player to warmachine and After getting sorscha and experimenting with the battle force plus a Decimator I was looking into a list based around
Sorcha (regular)
Spriggan
Devastator
Devastator

I'm not sure but I heard somewhere that that would come out to about 25 points, and from there I figured I would expand with
Long Fang Pikeman
Man o War squad
Man o war Cavalry

Initial tactics will be to buldoze with two of the jacks and then grenade with the third, and or bulldoze units away from the caster to allow Sorcha to buff the Spriggan into a huge charge.
Thoughts?

I do not get what you are going for. I see to many jacks on sorcha. She is not the best jackcaster. You could use a man'o'war drakhun to alleviate the problem (he is a jack marshal) but overall I would say the list is not good.

Sorcha can use the ironfang very well. the man o war are a tad slow for her needs. She also benefits from some winterguard infantry and their support.

hope this helps somewhat.

I have found pSorcha works best with 2 jacks (3 at 50), she likes to keep her focus. However Jack Marshals help fix that issue.

I think the Pikeman will do better overall because they are faster and therefore able to keep up with Sorcha.

I think your strategy will work against a Warmachine army but you will be mauled badly by about any Hordes army. You can't go straight for an assassination unless you can catch them with no fury (very hard to do).

FWIW, Sorcha needs her Beast(09).

While I am no expert I have played a pSorscha list often enough to notice a couple of things.

first off I am not sure if you mean to have the destroyers "bulldoze" as in engage in melee or use the ability. You should be aware that only the Spriggan can bulldoze. Additionally I think it would be better to have the Spriggan bulldoze a path to the caster, pop feat then have Sorscha and the destroyers open up on the stationary caster. If all goes well you will have one dead caster if you time it right. The Spriggan may have two grenade launchers but the POW and range on the launchers is weak compared to the destroyers bombards.

Three jacks is too many for pSorscha to handle. Two Jacks is pushing it as she wants to run wind rush as much as possible and maybe have fog up to give concelment bonuses to her and her battlegroup and troops.

For troop choices I would say the winter guard and winter guard rifle corps with kovnik joe are best as pSorscha is with two destroyers is a very shooty army to begin with. If you want to run three jacks possibly invest in the man o war kovnik. his drive ability gives boosted initial attacks (on successful command check) giving you three dice when shooting with the destroyer's bombard. However two jacks on the MOW Kovnick can be risky but it frees up Sorscha's focus.

I hope this helps!

You should be aware he has Devastators in the list, not Destroyers. Devastators have bulldoze.

Ronin,

thank you for being kind on calling me on my reading error

Please ignore above if you do not have Destroyers... Two devestaors could run into issues with units immune to blast damage like cryx raiders and dug in trenchers. While the unit would be pushed out of the way the raiders would be a holy terror on the counter attack. they will ignore the shields with their lacerators and then feedback damage on a power swelled attack or charge.

Not sure two devestors will be a great choice but the winter guard and rifle men with kovnik joe are a great choice to support as has been mentioned by everyone.

LordRavurion- The Drakhun is not a Jack Marshall the Man o War Kovnik is (and he is 2 points cheaper than the Drak).

whoops, serves me right for trying to help someone with an army I do not actively play myself

I did mean well though.

shintaibane wrote:While I am no expert I have played a pSorscha list often enough to notice a couple of things.

first off I am not sure if you mean to have the destroyers "bulldoze" as in engage in melee or use the ability. You should be aware that only the Spriggan can bulldoze. Additionally I think it would be better to have the Spriggan bulldoze a path to the caster, pop feat then have Sorscha and the destroyers open up on the stationary caster. If all goes well you will have one dead caster if you time it right. The Spriggan may have two grenade launchers but the POW and range on the launchers is weak compared to the destroyers bombards.

Three jacks is too many for pSorscha to handle. Two Jacks is pushing it as she wants to run wind rush as much as possible and maybe have fog up to give concelment bonuses to her and her battlegroup and troops.

For troop choices I would say the winter guard and winter guard rifle corps with kovnik joe are best as pSorscha is with two destroyers is a very shooty army to begin with. If you want to run three jacks possibly invest in the man o war kovnik. his drive ability gives boosted initial attacks (on successful command check) giving you three dice when shooting with the destroyer's bombard. However two jacks on the MOW Kovnick can be risky but it frees up Sorscha's focus.

I hope this helps!

Does a little bit except I'm not using a destroyer. I want devastators. I figure (if my recent win against gator hordes was any indicator) that khador jacks are relatively light on the focus. I tend to use sorcha's feat and her boundless charge more than wind rush, as I've noticed that, despite the def bonus, if I play her balls to the wall she tends to die. Instead I use her more for her ability to instantly freeze a target or everyone so my jacks can actually hit something...I do like the sound of that drive ability though. I am a little nervous though since I a unfamiliar with his feat...Also I've found it easier to fend off hordes with these sorts of jack heavy lists than jacks...especially menoth...that pop and drop gave me a headache. Typically I've also noticed jack heavy lists to be strong against my FLGS opponants who use maybe one or two jacks and a whole mess of really squishy guys...Still several good ideas there I may have to play around with that.
Typical tactics with these jack heavy lists are:
advance jacks with sorsha behind, perhaps shoot at something I dont like (game against the gators I had sprif jugs destroyer and used the target flare to catchc his pathfinders unaware and blow them up with the bombard) then pop feat, trample a path and then rush the caster. Gator game was against a warlock who could cast swamps which were difficult terrain and made his units unable to be targeted by ranged attacks so he only had 2 fury or so when I charged. I have limited experience though (3 games total!) so I'm going to take these tactics and try them out...open to more suggestions though! thanks so much!

shintaibane wrote:Ronin,

thank you for being kind on calling me on my reading error

Please ignore above if you do not have Destroyers... Two devestaors could run into issues with units immune to blast damage like cryx raiders and dug in trenchers. While the unit would be pushed out of the way the raiders would be a holy terror on the counter attack. they will ignore the shields with their lacerators and then feedback damage on a power swelled attack or charge.

Not sure two devestors will be a great choice but the winter guard and rifle men with kovnik joe are a great choice to support as has been mentioned by everyone.

The ARM increase from the devastator is not a shield effect, the model's base ARM is 25, but it gets reduced if it loses it's arms.

to the OP: If you are so set on running jack heavy lists, why not try out Khador's much better jack marshal - Karchev. He is a warjack that is made to run three warjacks effectively. He also solves our age old problem of having the slowest warjacks in the game, by having the ability to tow them with him across the battlefield.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorcha gets alot of use out of models with high power attacks that are difficult to land, such as WG Rocketeers, WG mortars, and destroyers. She also gets more mileage out of larger swarms of infatry like the WGDS as she can grant her entire army concealment on the approach.

I have contemplatee karchev but A I haaaaaate his model and B I haaaaaate his fluff...which is really the only reason I play warmachine...as my list demonstrates. Still focused on that Devastator Spriggan combo but what about this:
Butcher of Kardov
Spriggan
Devastator
Iron Fangs

Full throttle should help my spriggan and devastator move about on the charge turns, and will really aid the rain of death. The iron fangs are backfield defense for the butcher, with their 21 arm shield wall keeping jacks and enemy models at bay long enough to impact with rain of death and powerful charge. My only concern here is the fact that the butcher is a goddam space marine so enemy models should be able to see him over the shield wall

Butcher is IMO better than pSorcha(or any Sorcha) as a jack caster

Change Spriggan into Beast-09, Devastator into Kodiak maybe
then add the MOW shock trooper, to better cover the LOS to butcher

reasoning
Beast can bring axe to face faster than Spriggan, also more killy(also have thresher), The Kodiak is to replace the lost Bulldzoe, by using it's chain attack and throwing intervening model (you could also throw warjacks this way

MOW unit have shield wall, and medium base, which mean Butcher can be covered with them. their only weakness is their SPD

How many points is a kodiak? and wouldn't the beast 09 be better with sorcha since he has affinity for her?

I had considered man o war units, especially given their range 6 shield cannons, but sadly they're too cost prohibitive at the moment

Kodiak is 8 point

While Sorcha affinity is good, Beast -09 is just that good to pass up with pButcher, unlike Butcher, Sorcha doesn't have the "extra kill" spell


If you are running Sorcha I would have used
pSorcha
Beast
Juggernaut or Kodiak

and WGI, if possible with Joe. IFP is also nice just take their UA too if possible

Well if you run with eSorscha's tier list kodiaks drop to 7 points a pop so if you wanted too you could run three Kodiaks in a 15 point game...not sure how effective that would be though...then again six ps sixteen attacks on her feat would be rather devastating....

Yea I figured I'd take the attachments on the iron fangs (man all the abbreviations are hard to figure out without the handy "this stands for this" scroll over thing...) since the officer gives them that relentless charge rule...not to mention the mini feat where they can melee then shield wall. That right there is why I would take them over man o wars (and the points cost and monetary cost) as I was playing tag team with a dude who ran man o wars with WGI death star and died as soon as his man o wars lost shield wall...

I do not like running kodiaks with sorscha, mainly because one of sorscha's best abilities is fog of war, that provides concealment to her entire army. Kodiaks give themselves concealment anyways with vent steam, so the effect is somewhat wasted. OFC, she will still buff her infantry, and kodiaks could run without losing concealment.

Butcher is very difficult to take down in low point games. He has great ARM and good DEF and he becomes one of the toughest models in the game if you upkeep Iron flesh on him (DEF17/ARM18). He then has the DEF of Alistair Caine with the ARM of an Ironclad Heavy warjack...and hits like a Juggarnaught while having the best natural MAT in the game... This does not mean you should leave him wide open, but MoW units are not necessary at 15pts, they are simply too many points to waste just to shield him.

Keep in mind however - his tier lists lower the point cost of Shocktroopers, so they are somewhat more affordable if you stick to his tier list.

I think the list is not 15 point though

Butcher is plus 6
Spriggan would cost 4 (10-6)
Devastator is 9
this would total into 13 points

you got 2 points left = No iron fang pikemen

in 15 points IMO you should just run jacks , their won't be too much infantry at that point level

Err I was talking about eSorscha, you're thinking of pSorscha Kodo

Oh, ahahaha, I didnt notice.

I think a good 15pt pButcher list would be:

Butcher +6
-Beast-09 - 11
-Kodiak - 8

Manhunter - 2

Manhunters are animals especially when paired with the butcher. However! Do not think that pButcher cannot run infantry heavy at low points, I think he is better at it than going jack heavy IMO. A brick of Assault Kommandos or WGDS + a zerker jack is tough to deal with. Iron Flesh on either of those squads makes them just a pain in the arse to take down (WGDS will have 17DEF/13ARM and the AKs with have 15DEF/18ARM in SW). Also - Joe+Fury makes the WG swing with PS 14! Also - butcher's feat makes a much larger difference when you have a massive horde of infantry, as it will effect many more targets then if you were running jack heavy.

I can totally see that list.
Butcher feat do get more target with infantry heavy, but Full throttle have less, Khador IMO need accuracy not hitting power (we have enough Hitting power)

Sorry perhaps I shoulda clarified guys, this is a base army, I'm looking for 20-30 points total. The sprig/dev/butcher/IF combo is just the core around which I will construct the rest of my army. Hearing a lot of good Ideas...I dont use fog of war that much with sorcha honestly, since the def bonus is usually irrelevant for heavy jacks (yay def 10!) and I usually use them to screen her. With Butcher the shield wall I'm thinking would be more for blocking charges and the jacks would be the front line blocking LOS (I like to keep my caster close to my jacks, not so close they got no breathing room but definately more of a foreward unit than a sit back and potshot sort of guy. Kodiak I've heard awesome things about but looking at his stats and tactics...he just doesn't seem my type...I like the spriggan and the dev cause, while they are relatively simple (esp the dev) they have MASSIVE arm stats and hit hard in close combat, almost as hard as a jug but to more targets. plus I like having some range integrated into my melee unit with no loss to CQC as opposed to, say, the destroyer. Yes the bombard rocks (killed a few casters with it) but because of it I find myself using him more as a mortar guard which I could get for much cheaper anyways. Does butcher have an iron flesh spell? if so that's just a rediculous level of stats...

No Khadoran caster is a potshot stay back caster

Except for Zerkova and the Old Witch, even then the Old witch is at least quite somebit to the front

Kodiak is simple, hit twice THEN throw something, it's a utility jack, Spriggan is all good and nice , While Dev is your anti infantry jack, it's only going to use it's rain of death once, as the next turn the enemy came down upon it like the fist of an angry god. He also loses alot of benefit when attacked by AP type attack (Well all do, but devastator especially so)

My guess is to use Strakhov instead of Butcher , having that many movement shenanigans help

Who's Strakhov? I thought the jack caster with tow was karchev...

Strakhov is Warcaster for Khador, he is this kommando/blackops guy of Khador, in fluff term Caine equivalent

Strakhov doesn't buff your jack hitting power, what he provides is a the Heavenly piercing spear maneuver
involving a Stealthed Spriggan, one more warjack(Devastator) or mass killing unit and his only "buff"

1.cast superiority(and occultation as necessary),
2.upkeep it every turn on your chosen warjacks(both)
3.cast overun on Devastator when its near a mass group of enemy.
4.IRON FIST
5.Devastator explodes trigerring overun, everyone moves, making sure of a clear charge lane to their warcaster
6.activate Spriggan
7.??? (watch your opponent moan as your slow Spriggan has moved 7(!!!!)+4+2+4+r2=19 threat range)
8.PROFIT/HEAVEN PIERCING SPEAR

it can work with any reach warjack really, ANY, and ANY mass murderer, the Devastator is just popular for this

Interesting...seems a lot like the menoth pop n drop...now does that work well against armies wth a lot of light jacks? since I'd only be hitting them at POW9...

which pow 9 are you talking about? Devastator
Anything in base to base with a devastator take POW 18 damage, if for some reason your opponent seems to only take light without a heavy, ram one with a devastator, it is enough to kill a light , you only need to kill one model, for overrun to trigger, If you are worried, you can replace the Devastator with Torch or something more KILLY to ensure you manage to kill something and trigger overrun

You can also take killy units (Man o War, Great bear, etcetc) and put occultation so they don't get ripped by ranged attack

Strakhov can also do this, kill a solo or two , Free D3 attack is not something to sneeze about
also take gorman, Gorman is strakhov best friend

Yea I know BTB is POW 18 but even with bulldoze I rarely get more than 2 models in BTB so i've learned to count on the POW 9 hits...
What exactly does overrun do?

Since when did you need to bulldoze? The text says "can" not "has to" so it's completely optional.