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If you imagine that Space Marines and their equivalent with IG, and Eldar are the "good guys", with Ork, Dark Eldar, Necrons and all Chaos as "Bad guys".

Where would this put the Tau and Tyranids?

DaNewBoy wrote:If you imagine that Space Marines and their equivalent with IG, and Eldar are the "good guys", with Ork, Dark Eldar, Necrons and all Chaos as "Bad guys".

Where would this put the Tau and Tyranids?

I think we need to do a more complex explanation per race or force as each one can have their good days and their bad.

Specifically for Tau, put them in the good category. They're like missionaries that don't have a false pretense for who they are and what they do. They are there to spread the word of their faith/belief and they know that they are better than the ones they preach to. Does not make them bad, but it does lead to pretention of their ideals over other's way of life.

'Nids are evil and anathema to this galaxy, as their objective is to consume and move on. Not evil in the sense that they do it maliciously, but they have a need (feeding) that is opposite of what everything else in the galaxy wants to do (not being feeded upon) that puts the Tyranids as "evil" versus everyone else.

As for how to interpret the other races, here are things to consider:

Some Chaos Marines are Chaos because they reject the Emperor as the Savior of Mankind. This couild put them in the camp of the Ruinous powers, but they work towards eliminating the Imperium because of its dogmatic shackles upon the rest of humanity. In some ways, these elements of Chaos could be Chaotic Good (in DnD terms) as they try to remove the oppressive shackles of oppressive authorities in order to grant greater freedoms.

Orks- Orks want to fight. That's about it. They krump cuz' its wot Orks do!

IG- IG can become evil or tainted by chaos.

Not sure why there's a question on the Tyranids. Yes they lack malice but they're still the ultimate force of genocide.

The Necrons are just pure evil to me, without other motives, they just want to exterminate all life. Thats just evil.

Eldar seem to be more self serving and can't be placed in the good camp as they try to control the actions of other races and generally try to influence events to go in their favour, without much regard for the benefit to the other races. Ask an Eldar a question and he/she will give you 3 answers, all of which are true.

Thing is, Nids do not commit genocide, well they do but it is how their race is structured. That the soldiers will die to be reborn again on another battlefield, with almost the same mind.

All the major actors in the WH40k (possibly save the DE) were either made the way they are, or are acting out of perceived necessity. Are terrible acts evil without free will on the part of the actor?

A torture servitor is more bad than a human child who pulls the wings off flies, but is the human child more evil? The torture servitor cannot be blamed and cannot be expected to do otherwise.

DaNewBoy wrote:If you imagine that Space Marines and their equivalent with IG, and Eldar are the "good guys", with Ork, Dark Eldar, Necrons and all Chaos as "Bad guys".

Where would this put the Tau and Tyranids?

I would disagree with putting IoM forces with the "good guys". They are only good to the extent they are on your side.

The truth of 40K is that the IoM and Chaos are two faces of the same ghastly coin.

Orks, Necrons and Tyranids act according to compulsion. There is no choice in what they do, so their actions are amoral.

This is all going to be opinions rather than facts, but I pretty much agree with Killkrazy.

People see Orkz, Necrons and 'Nids as evil, but they're not doing anything 'evil' as such. They're just going with what they do instinctively as an organism. That just happens to be fighting/killing everything/eating everything. A virus isn't evil because it makes us sick. Obvious, the C'tan are pretty evil, though.

I'd say that some of the Marine teams are 'good'. Team's like the Space Wolves will outright ignore Imperium orders if it involves the killing of innocent people and such; where as others such as the Ultramarine's will follow them to the letter.
Then again, that brings the whole 'Are you evil if you're just following orders' scenario.

Wolfun wrote:Space Wolves will outright ignore Imperium orders if it involves the killing of innocent people and such; where as others such as the Ultramarine's will follow them to the letter.

And yet, the Space Wolves maintain a death world where they let millions of innocents die by the changing of the seasons and prevent helpful technologies from reaching them, while the Ultramarines benevolently rule the most progressive, prosperous, and lawful sector in the entire Imperium.

Anavrin wrote:

Wolfun wrote:Space Wolves will outright ignore Imperium orders if it involves the killing of innocent people and such; where as others such as the Ultramarine's will follow them to the letter.

And yet, the Space Wolves maintain a death world where they let millions of innocents die by the changing of the seasons and prevent helpful technologies from reaching them, while the Ultramarines benevolently rule the most progressive, prosperous, and lawful sector in the entire Imperium.

I never said they were perfect. =P
But that goes into a whole different thing. Is it evil to let them struggle just to pick out the strongest to take into the Fang? Taking them into the Fang means they help those in dire need of assistance. It just goes in circles.

Tyranids are really bad bcause they just wan't to eat everything.
While tau is like the crusaders of the greater good. They wan't to spread it evrywhere but if the others don't like it they just kill em all.

jelisi wrote:Tyranids are really bad bcause they just wan't to eat everything.
While tau is like the crusaders of the greater good. They wan't to spread it evrywhere but if the others don't like it they just kill em all.

With that logic - wouldn't you be bad for going and eating as much as possible at an all-you-can-eat buffet?

jelisi wrote:Tyranids are really bad bcause they just wan't to eat everything.
While tau is like the crusaders of the greater good. They wan't to spread it evrywhere but if the others don't like it they just kill em all.

Its what the Tyranids are made for, to consume and sustain themselves. Nothing drives them except to devour, you can't term that bad. It is like having a disorder where you never feel full and must continually gorge yourself. Or perhaps even having a blood disorder that inhibits adrenaline and you have to inject artificial adrenaline or else your heart stops beating. Somehow I feel more for the Nid's. They are 'mindless' and its this mindlessness that that away free will, which is sad.

The Tau seem more sinister than their fluff says.

This is really a lot simpler than everyones making it:

EVIL
chaos
dark eldar
orks
necrons
nids

NOT-EVIL-BUT-STILL-BAD
IoM
eldar
tau

*there are no good guys in the grim darkness of the far future

I think this question is best explained using Alignments. Chaotic Good, Neutral Evil, ect ect
but when it comes to orks and nids, I wouldnt really consider them evil or good..since they really don't have a attainable purpose. They are more just forces of nature in my opinion

I would not consider Orks that evil they just do what they were made for. Neither would I call Necrons very evil, since they are mindless slaves of their masters. Tyrannids also only eat for their on survival.

Tau are good guys, or at least as good as you get in 40k. There a race that is much more willing to use their words and a lot less xenophobic than the imperium.

The Imperium are tyrannical space Nazis who will kill you if you go against the Emperor.

The Tau Empire forces you to join them. If you refuse, you die.

Orks kill everything.

Necrons (see above).

Tyranids (see above).

Dark Eldar (see above) + torture and slavery.

Chaos wants to currupt everything that is pure in the galaxy.

Eldar will kill anyone they deem "lesser than them" and would gladly sacrifice the galaxy if it meant saving their race.

Good guys? Explain to me how any one of those factions are good guys. No-one in the 40k universe is good, and that is what makes it so grim and dark; it's a galaxy filled with neverending war between forces who are all evil and flawed in their own way.

Darth Bob wrote:The Imperium are tyrannical space Nazis who will kill you if you go against the Emperor.

The Tau Empire forces you to join them. If you refuse, you die.

Orks kill everything.

Necrons (see above).

Tyranids (see above).

Dark Eldar (see above) + torture and slavery.

Chaos wants to currupt everything that is pure in the galaxy.

Eldar will kill anyone they deem "lesser than them" and would gladly sacrifice the galaxy if it meant saving their race.

Good guys? Explain to me how any one of those factions are good guys. No-one in the 40k universe is good, and that is what makes it so grim and dark; it's a galaxy filled with neverending war between forces who are all evil and flawed in their own way.

+1. You hit the nail on the head.

Except for the Tau, of course.

Honestly, you can say there is NO ''good'' or ''evil'' in 40k, hell, its in real life!

Now, on the other hand, I personally think that all factions are evil, maybe not intensionally, but for the most part, they all have their fair share. Some, just more then others.

The ONLY one I can say is true evil are the Dark Eldar. Why? well, Chaos is not evil...its just what chaos is, they do things based on ''negitive'' emotion, The birth of Slaanesh is an obvious example.
Dark Eldar actually do it for fun, they chose their fate and why and what they do and completely know the consequences. Sure, many followers of chaos could be the same, but in the end its really not.
Even the Imperium of Man are one of the very most, if not very secnd, evil of them all. Tau, I personally see as neutral in a way, but again...is there really anyone whose neutral? just like how no one is good.
An exaple is how Grey knights or Sisters are ''pure'' yet there almost the opposite incarnate. Eldar are ignorant and care for no one else because of an overwhelming amount of narcissistic ass holes, as well as evil, sedistic, space pirates (and im not talking about the Dark Eldar).

Orks and Tyranids are what they are by nature, Just like every other race, no matter how technologically advanced or smart they are.
Necrons are almost the same, they just do what they do because of a series of events millions of years ago. Not even the C'Tan are evil to me, no ''God'' in fact is. Only some mortal individuals can be evil, not a race in a whole.

Tau have concentration camps, and camps where they work POW's to death.

winnertakesall wrote:Tau have concentration camps, and camps where they work POW's to death.

Nicer than what others would do, but yes, Tau aren't all good either.

winnertakesall wrote:Tau have concentration camps, and camps where they work POW's to death.

No they don't.

I'd argue that Orks are neutral, really - to judge them as evil is to judge them from a human standpoint, assuming that human values apply to what are decidedly inhuman creatures. Orks don't see what they do as evil; fighting and war is just what they do, it's part of their very nature, rather like how humans mistrust anything new or unfamiliar. In that sense, it's like calling a tiger evil because it caught and ate a human. It isn't really; it's just doing what tigers will do if they get the chance.
Of course, that's just my view on things.

Mr Nobody wrote:Tau are good guys, or at least as good as you get in 40k.

Not good guys, no, but they do at least give you a choice. Join us or, well... we might have to take action. That's a lot better than you can expect to get from pretty much everyone else you can meet.

Kilkrazy wrote:

winnertakesall wrote:Tau have concentration camps, and camps where they work POW's to death.

No they don't.

Well according to Dark crusade and Soulstorm.
The Tau do treat people okay......but,they seperate human men and women,lowering the birth rate,and may sterilize them.
They propably act nice and then just let more Tau in and gently push humans out untill it's just a Tau world.

As for Good v Evil.

IoM is mostly good but doing it in a evil-ish way.
Same with Eldar,they do good,but it will only pay off in a few hundred years after.

Chaos,Necrons and Dark Eldar are Evil.

The rest is just nature,Orks and Tyranids are just the way nature made them.

the actual lines of good/evil are very clouded.


the Imperium: i would say the imperium is a true neutral. EVERYONE else is against them and they are against everyone. they are concerned with their own survival and will stop anyone who attemts anything else.

the T'au: they want to be friends with everyone, but there might be a sinister motive behind everything.

Chaos: selfdestructive evil.


Tyranids: alien evil. they have no motive beyond the desire to consume all life. in this sense they are the ultimate evil, unfeeling, unthinking, uncaring. just the ever present hunger. Nom for the Nom god!!!

The necrontyr are clearly evil.

1: Start war with an advanced benevolent race out of jealousy
2: Give form to god like beings in the hope that they help defeat the old ones
3: Become servants of their new gods, help harvest the galaxy

The necrons sealed their own fate. They are fueled by their bitter and twisted natures, driven forward by insane vampiric gods. The necrons want to extinguish life as we know it because they no longer have it.

Lastly, I'm going to pitch in (once again) to say the T'au, at this moment in time, do not use 'concentration camps'.

o sure, they don't call them that

Well as for nids I'll say this since Hive tyrants are sentient, I'd say they are evil but gaunts and other non synapse creature probably.