Warhammer historical #22

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**reds8n**

Hi there,
Today we are excited to announce that the first of several new Warhammer Historical rules sets is available to pre-order – Kampfgruppe Normandy. We also have a detailed WWII German decal sheet to accompany this lavish book, both of which will be on sale in limited numbers at Salute 2011 on 16th April.

Kampfgruppe Normandy available to pre-order now
Written by Warwick Kinrade, Kampfgruppe Normandy is a huge 348 page, full colour, large format, hardback book containing rules for playing miniature wargames set in Normandy during the summer of 1944.

Kampfgruppe Normandy is a completely new games system that includes detailed rules for such aspects of warfare as: command and control, suppressing fire with small arms and high-explosives, direct and indirect fire, aircraft attacks and anti-aircraft fire. It also includes a unique battle group morale system to determine the victor in each battle. The rules can be played using any 1/72 scale (20mm) WWII plastic, metal and resin infantry, vehicles and terrain kits.

As you can see from these page spreads, Kampfgruppe Normandy includes over 100 photographs taken during the war by those who were there, many rarely seen before. The book contains eight army lists from which players can build combined-arms battle groups: four Allied lists, for both British and American Armoured and Infantry divisions and four German lists, covering both SS and Wehrmacht Panzer divisions, and Werhmacht Infantry and Fallschirmjäger divisions.

It also contains two mini-campaigns set in the British and American sectors of Normandy which provide extensive background information, scenarios and equipment data as well as full-colour uniform guides for German, American and British forces.

Kampfgruppe Normandy is available to pre-order now for despatch in the week commencing 26th April, but before this it will also be exclusively available in limited numbers at Salute, which is held at London’s ExCel Centre on 16th April.

WWII German Decal Sheet available to pre-order now
Released alongside Kampfgruppe Normandy is this detailed German decal sheet, designed by Forge World’s Paul Rudge.

Packed with over 1,200 individual decals, this sheet provides national insignia, vehicle numbers and divisional insignia for the 1st, 2nd, 9th and 12th SS Panzer Divisions.

The vehicle numbers on the sheet, designed for use with 1/72 (20mm) models, can both be used straight away in the designations supplied, or combined together to allow further unit numbers to be created for specific vehicles. The sheet has been designed with the wargamer in mind, and allows multiple vehicles from the same unit to be easily detailed.

This decal sheet can now be pre-ordered for despatch in the week commencing 26th April. Along with Kampfgruppe Normandy, the German decal sheet will be available in limited numbers at Salute 2011 in advance of this shipping date.

More Warhammer Historical publications coming soon
Kampfgruppe Normandy is the first of several exciting supplements and rulebooks scheduled for release over the next few months. Keep an eye on the Warhammer Historical website and future newsletters for more details.

Contacting Warhammer Historical
By Phone
The Warhammer Historical Customer Service team can be contacted between 9am and 6pm (UK time) Monday to Friday, and between 9am and 5pm (UK time) on Saturdays. We are happy to take your order over the phone and you can pay with a credit card or debit card by contacting us on 011 44 115 916 8375 from the US and Canada; 00 44 115 916 8375 from most of Europe or 0115 916 8375 if you are in the UK.
We are also able to answer any questions you may have about any aspect of the Warhammer Historical range, from queries regarding stock levels to recommendations for the ideal gift.
By Post
You can also post your orders to us, and this is the only method of ordering you can use if you wish to pay by cheque, Games Workshop gift vouchers, or postal orders.
By Fax
Orders paid with a credit card or debit card can also be faxed to us on 0115 900 4882.

http://warhammer-historical.com/acatalog/Kampfgruppe_Normandy.html

http://warhammer-historical.com/Aspreads/KGN.html

http://www.warhammer-historical.com/acatalog/Kampfgruppe_Normandy.html

WW II rules.. available at Salute ... pfftt like that will be of interest to anyone.

**Mr. Burning**

WW2 rule sets will never be popular *whistles*.........................

I must say, it looks a hefty old tome.

**notprop**

£48 a pop, I see GW are bringing FW prices to the wider gaming audience!

I am keen to take a peep and while I have laid out for allot of the IA books I am skeptical about buying into this. Plenty out there for less.

...................okay its GW i'll take 2.

**BaconSlayer**

You had me, then I read Warwick Kinrade and you lost me.

**BrookM**

At least the scale is common enough, that common in fact that I'll just dig up the old Airfix and Revell kits.

**Fattimus_maximus**

Hobby lobby is gonna make alot of money if this picks up they sell TONS of 1/72 tamaya and dragon kits for world war 2

**Mr. Burning**

notprop wrote:£48 a pop, I see GW are bringing FW prices to the wider gaming audience!

I am keen to take a peep and while I have laid out for allot of the IA books I am skeptical about buying into this. Plenty out there for less.

...................okay its GW i'll take 2.

I tried to ignore the price but my eyes keep getting drawn to then popping out of my head because of it. I should expect it of GW.

I could buy plenty of 1/72 kits for this price

**kenshin620**

Sounds interesting, is it going to be like WH: The Great War?

**Cruentus**

So this is likely why there have been no supplements for Warhammer Ancients Battles. Great. Let's make another ww2 game, when there are tons out there already, and charge an arm and a leg for it.

Sadly, I'm sure this'll get limited support, much like WAB2, The Great War, the "Legends of" series, Trafalgar, etc.

Sigh...

**kenshin620**

Cruentus wrote:So this is likely why there have been no supplements for Warhammer Ancients Battles. Great. Let's make another ww2 game, when there are tons out there already, and charge an arm and a leg for it.

Sadly, I'm sure this'll get limited support, much like WAB2, The Great War, the "Legends of" series, Trafalgar, etc.

Sigh...

Well to be fair, trying to do any major historical game is tough since there are so many rulesets for pretty much all well knownish conflicts. I just wish there would be some more plastics. Preferably for eastern wars

**George Spiggott**

Hmmm, £48 for a not so handy 350 page hardback rulebook with an untried rule set, by a company with a proven track record for bad rules and piss poor support.

Remind me why this product exists again?

**kenshin620**

George Spiggott wrote:Remind me why this product exists again?

Its written by people from GW?

**Void_walker**

kenshin620 wrote:
George Spiggott wrote:Remind me why this product exists again?

Its written by people from GW?

The orginial was written by Rick and Co (most have all moved on and gone back to there roots of historical table-top battle....hence the Ward-Heresy) but didn't actully produce any minitures as far as I can find.

I thought Warhammer Historical was all dead and buried to be honest.

**kenshin620**

Well it WAS pretty much dead till IIRC Forgeworld picked it back up and a year or so ago made WAB 2.0 as "Proof" that they're back to do more stuff

So far, there has been very little beyond that

**Savnock**

BaconSlayer wrote:You had me, then I read Warwick Kinrade and you lost me.

Ditto. I'm cringing to see that ol' CopypastaMasta is at it again. At least this time it's probably mostly new material, so his poorly-proofread copy-paste shenanigans are less likely to occur. Prepare to see points values all over the map though. It's a damn shame as the guy obviously has a great enthusiasm for the hobby- they just need to attach someone to him as a "No Man"- a guy who checks for erros and inconsistencies and makes supplemental suggestions for Warwick's work.

Looking forward to checking it out when it hits the interwebz, then buying it if it's any good.

Fingers crossed...

Also: This is the fulfillment of those WWII ruleset rumors that went around about 2 years ago. Suck it, knee-jerk saltmongers!

**johnnyrumour**

BaconSlayer wrote:You had me, then I read Warwick Kinrade and you lost me.

that actually made me spit coffe out my nose!

Cruentus wrote:So this is likely why there have been no supplements for Warhammer Ancients Battles. Great. Let's make another ww2 game, when there are tons out there already, and charge an arm and a leg for it.

Sadly, I'm sure this'll get limited support, much like WAB2, The Great War, the "Legends of" series, Trafalgar, etc.

Sigh...

the WAB books are totally seperate afaik, Warwick doesn't have anything to do with either the main rules or the supplements. anyway they say there are more in the next few months so we shall see.

**Mr Mystery**

Hold on, I thought that Warhammer Historical had been wound up?

Colour me confused!

**Big P**

From the rivet-counter perspective, I note in the preview pages that the scenario set on the 10th July 1944 shows the US as having 76mm gun armed Shermans...

...none arrived in Normandy till 18th July.

I know its anal, but that kinda annoys me and makes me wonder about everything else. If you are gonna plug it as an uber-historical book and harp on about accuracy and realism, at least get the tanks right.

**Jomini**

George Spiggott wrote:Hmmm, £48 for a not so handy 350 page hardback rulebook with an untried rule set,

The rules must have been in play testing for quite some time, I think there are rumors about this game going back to 2008 but here's something from 2009:
http://wabforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=6740&p=68605

George Spiggott wrote:by a company with a proven track record for bad rules and piss poor support.

Remind me why this product exists again?

How does Warhammer Historical have a 'proven track record for bad rules'?

kenshin620 wrote:Well it WAS pretty much dead till IIRC Forgeworld picked it back up and a year or so ago made WAB 2.0 as "Proof" that they're back to do more stuff

So far, there has been very little beyond that

The opposite is true, WH was thought to be almost dead after Rob Broom was fired and Forgeworld took over.
There are a loot of basically finished supplements laying on FWs desk which just didn't get released, most notoriously 'Over the Top'.
See:
http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=77315
http://wabforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=6766
http://wabforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=91&t=9481
http://wabforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=91&t=8937
http://wabforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=91&t=8320
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=224202&page=1

For example.
Plus the WAB 2.0 release (by Forgeworld) was handled quite poorly, and contact with WAB supplement writers was cut.

**Osbad**

George Spiggott wrote:Hmmm, £48 for a not so handy 350 page hardback rulebook with an untried rule set, by a company with a proven track record for bad rules and piss poor support.

Remind me why this product exists again?

^^ This.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jomini wrote:How does Warhammer Historical have a 'proven track record for bad rules'?

No, I don't think he meant WH, I think he meant it was Forgeworld that had a track record for poor rules control.

WAB and its decendents/supplements were pretty OK for what they were.

**Chibi Bodge-Battle**

Hi Big P
Sorry if this is a dim comment but I thought that the 76mm was used on the British Firefly and didn't think the US Army had the 76mm gun on the Shermans.

Not my area so may be way off beam. Have I missed something?

**kenshin620**

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Hi Big P
Sorry if this is a dim comment but I thought that the 76mm was used on the British Firefly and didn't think the US Army had the 76mm gun on the Shermans.

Not my area so may be way off beam. Have I missed something?

Thats the 17 Pounder gun

the 76mm was a high velocity cannon used on the M4A3E8 or Easy 8 by americans

76mm

17pdr

**Chibi Bodge-Battle**

The 17 pounder was 76.2mm (?) so maybe that is where I got confused.
Thanks Kenshin

**Big P**

Actually all Shermans were supposed to have the 76mm gun at one point, but the US turned it down as they didnt think they needed a gun that big, which for its intended doctrinal role, was correct.

They changed their mind when they found themselves have to fight tank-on-tank with heavier German armour.

**brettz123**

George Spiggott wrote:Hmmm, £48 for a not so handy 350 page hardback rulebook with an untried rule set, by a company with a proven track record for bad rules and piss poor support.

Remind me why this product exists again?

Very good points I will be much more impressed when there are some more supplements that expand out to beyond Normandy. And i would be even more impressed if it was 15mm or even 28mm. Might be worth it for the pictures though.

**kenshin620**

brettz123 wrote:

Very good points I will be much more impressed when there are some more supplements that expand out to beyond Normandy. And i would be even more impressed if it was 15mm or even 28mm. Might be worth it for the pictures though.

scale shouldnt be too much of a problem, its a matter of multiplying and dividing usually (yes this is a bit tedious bu if you really want it)

And besides, 1/72 is quite affordable at least

**George Spiggott**

Jomini wrote:
George Spiggott wrote:Hmmm, £48 for a not so handy 350 page hardback rulebook with an untried rule set,
The rules must have been in play testing for quite some time, I think there are rumors about this game going back to 2008 but here's something from 2009:
http://wabforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=6740&p=68605.

So what? Outside of the play testers, who will be outnumbered by players on day one of release, nobody has had access to this game to assess its quality and at the end of the day it's still a rule set written (edited?) by someone who's name is synonymous with poor editing and proofreading.

Osbad wrote:
Jomini wrote:How does Warhammer Historical have a 'proven track record for bad rules'?
No, I don't think he meant WH, I think he meant it was Forgeworld that had a track record for poor rules control.

I actually meant GW but you can take the sentence to mean what you like, rule 'quality' is pretty subjective anyhow.

Overall regarding the historical elements of the book I'll probably stick with Ambrose if I want a well written WWII storybook. At nearly £50, in ungainly hardback, I'm unlikely to turn to it as my first choice for 20mm WWII gaming.

Also this tickled me:

Kampfgruppe Normandy includes over 100 photographs taken during the war by those who were there...

Yes, I hate those photos that were taken by people who weren't there too.

**Big P**

George Spiggott wrote:
I'll probably stick with Ambrose if I want a well written WWII storybook.

Phew... Thought you was gonna say history book there for a sec!

Stephen 'Never let truth get in the way of a good story' Ambrose.

**Kanluwen**

George Spiggott wrote:
Also this tickled me:
Kampfgruppe Normandy includes over 100 photographs taken during the war by those who were there...
Yes, I hate those photos that were taken by people who weren't there too.

That one's far less "photos taken by people who weren't there" and more "actual photographs, not artist illustrations" like the Osprey books are filled with.

Or at least that's how it read to me.

**George Spiggott**

Kanluwen wrote:That one's far less "photos taken by people who weren't there" and more "actual photographs, not artist illustrations" like the Osprey books are filled with.

Or at least that's how it read to me.

You obviously buy different Osprey book to me. Fortunately the presence, or lack thereof, of period photographs does not define the quality of a history book. Not that I'm expecting a great history book, or great prose for that matter.

@ Big P: I'll not hear a word said against Ambrose. He was a great writer, with a flair for characters and pace that a few authors of (proper) fiction could do well to emulate.