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With the rash of civil rebellions in the Middle East and North Africa, why would Europe and North America be immune?

Should there be concerns?

Our social conditions are very different to the Arab world.

We have democracy and the rule of law. That goes a long way to defusing the potential for serious unrest.

Yeah its kinda silly question isnt it? I mean, lifes pretty sweet here. We ARE immune to the issues that plaque the arab world.

The anarchists here are a tiny tiny minority, when they kick off in London there is about 200 of them, and the million others around them tend to think "what a bunch of pricks"

I cant see us having any major issues, were not savages, we sue each other!

DaNewBoy wrote:With the rash of civil rebellions in the Middle East and North Africa, why would Europe and North America be immune?

Should there be concerns?

No. Thats what football is for.
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA (deep intake of breath) AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!

Tell Eurolanders(or z for you Germanics) Do they do the Goal thing over there like we do in proper civilized countries? (El Salvador)

Yeah, perhaps not quite as enthusiastically.. we do have a certain level of reserve to maintain after all.

why would Europe and North America be immune?

We've got reliable electricity supplies and broadband, we don't take to the streets these days, it's message boards and comments sections for us.

reds8n wrote: Yeah, perhaps not quite as enthusiastically.. we do have a certain level of reserve to maintain after all.

why would Europe and North America be immune?

We've got reliable electricity supplies and broadband, we don't take to the streets these days, it's message boards and comments sections for us.

Never happen here. It would take too much time away from playing Assassin's Creed XXIXVIX

Anarchists are not going to be the problem. Under the thin crust of civilization lies the feral nature of man. Look what happened in Greece and elsewhere with budget cuts to social programs. The West is very spoiled in its creature comforts. Potential future cuts in social benefits; rising prices in food and gas, and continued unemployment are tinder for major social unrest. The west is more likely to riot over the loss, or perceived loss to the standard of living that it has become accustom to than the Middle Eastern countries over the tyranny and corruption of their leaders.

DaNewBoy wrote:With the rash of civil rebellions in the Middle East and North Africa, why would Europe and North America be immune?

Should there be concerns?

The US is dealing with the tea party, but they're hardly a revolution.

edit !


Not sure about Mexico or Canada though.

America's relative concerns are the price of gas, who gets booted off America Idol, and what the government is doing today (getting bigger/smaller).

Many other places have much bigger concerns. Here's a bried list of what others may be more concerned about:

Will the government come to my house and kill me?
If not the government as defined as the national entity, what about at the province, town, local, street or hell, even family level?
What do I eat today, or tomorrow, or next week?
Do I explode when I go to market?
Do I join a jihad to explode in the market?

AIDs,
Nuclear fallout
Earthquakes
Tsunamis
Genocide

Here in America, we have fewer grave concerns per citizen than other nations who are currently under duress from unrest.

If a disaster the magnitude of the earthquake and Tsunami happened in the US, there would be huge amounts of Civil unrest. The Japanese are usually a complacent mob of folks, but the rationing of gas, or no gas for that matter, had some of them freaking out in a way I had never seen in 12 years. Now that cigarettes are in short supply (Japan Tobacco's factory is closed due to the disaster) geezers are again starting to get a bit antsy. Remember, there are NO GUNS in the general populace here. In the US, I hate to think what would happen if the disaster had occurred off of California.

Surprisingly at least, it seems that despite the prevalence of guns in the US, very rarely do disasters lead to extreme looting or excessive violence. Look at Katrina, despite the disaster the violence was faily limited....I'd like to think the same thing would happen in California, mainly because I live there.

^^ It was/is the apocalypse up in Tohoku. There are no buildings in entire towns with radiation. I don't think FEMA would be all too quick to takeover any kind of situation on the West coast. I hope I am wrong.

FEMA failed horribly in its response to Katrina too, but even without FEMA the people seemed to order themselves fairly well.

Kilkrazy wrote:Our social conditions are very different to the Arab world.

We have the illusion of democracy and the rule of law for the "too big to fail" corporations. Drowning the public in Dancing with the Stars, American idol and psychological programming cleverly disguised as news goes a long way to defusing the potential for serious unrest.

C'mon, you didn't really think I was gonna let that slide, did you?

If the West has the illusion of democracy, what is a real democracy?

Long traditions of democracy, peaceful methods to effect change as well as a sense of reciprocity between the people and the state.

No concerns at all, as in the UK and US, you are allowed to complain about your leaders. That does a lot for keeping things orderly.

dogma wrote:If the West has the illusion of democracy, what is a real democracy?

Nobody. We are all at this point just employees of the thirteen global elite families, headed by the reptillian Rothschilds.

There is a lot of lip-service to Athenian democracy where only 10% of the population had any say in the State's business. They ruled the State for themselves and their own ends. They had open slavery. They fought wars of conquest for commerce and resources. Most people were there to supply man-power for their nefarious plans.

90% or so of the West have no means to the control of the State. You vote in a popularity contest in a one party state. Politicians, left/right, blue/red, People's Front of Judea/Judean People's Front, have their interests at heart, not yours. If you believe they actually give a gak about people, I have some property on the moon I bought from New York Fries I'd like to sell you. We have wage slavery. The politicians wring their hands over how they can pay for social programs when there is no money, but have no problem dropping billions of dollars in explosives of people on the other side of the world. We're kept poor and disenfranchised on purpose; they don't want us f'n with their racket. Most of us are kept around to keep their economy going, die in their wars, grow their food, pump their gas.

So, I guess the West is living up to that tradition.

Khornholio wrote:There is a lot of lip-service to Athenian democracy where only 10% of the population had any say in the State's business. They ruled the State for themselves and their own ends. They had open slavery. They fought wars of conquest for commerce and resources. Most people were there to supply man-power for their nefarious plans.

90% or so of the West have no means to the control of the State. You vote in a popularity contest in a one party state. Politicians, left/right, blue/red, People's Front of Judea/Judean People's Front, have their interests at heart, not yours. If you believe they actually give a gak about people, I have some property on the moon I bought from New York Fries I'd like to sell you. We have wage slavery. The politicians wring their hands over how they can pay for social programs when there is no money, but have no problem dropping billions of dollars in explosives of people on the other side of the world. We're kept poor and disenfranchised on purpose; they don't want us f'n with their racket. Most of us are kept around to keep their economy going, die in their wars, grow their food, pump their gas.

So, I guess the West is living up to that tradition.

pretty much WoW and +1 1

warpcrafter wrote:

dogma wrote:If the West has the illusion of democracy, what is a real democracy?

Nobody. We are all at this point just employees of the thirteen global elite families, headed by the reptillian Rothschilds.

I didn't ask who has a real democracy, I asked what is a real democracy.

Then again, I should have remembered who you are, and refrained from responding at all.

I think if Seth McFarlane is allowed to make another version of Family Guy (there are two already and what seems like a live action movie Ted on the way) there will be an uprising and civil unrest in North America. Perhaps Brazil as well, though no one quite knows why.

Ahtman wrote:I think if Seth McFarlane is allowed to make another version of Family Guy (there are two already and what seems like a live action movie Ted on the way) there will be an uprising and civil unrest in North America. Perhaps Brazil as well, though no one quite knows why.

It's the evil monkey in the closet....

dogma wrote:

warpcrafter wrote:

dogma wrote:If the West has the illusion of democracy, what is a real democracy?

Nobody. We are all at this point just employees of the thirteen global elite families, headed by the reptillian Rothschilds.

I didn't ask who has a real democracy, I asked what is a real democracy.

Then again, I should have remembered who you are, and refrained from responding at all.

Here's a rant on "real democracy" and "how to get it."

http://wspus.org/2010/03/what-is-real-democracy-and-how-do-we-get-it/

Funny read.

dogma wrote:

warpcrafter wrote:

dogma wrote:If the West has the illusion of democracy, what is a real democracy?

Nobody. We are all at this point just employees of the thirteen global elite families, headed by the reptillian Rothschilds.

I didn't ask who has a real democracy, I asked what is a real democracy.

Then again, I should have remembered who you are, and refrained from responding at all.

Real Democracy is mob rule. Is that what you want?

Widespread violent civil unrest comes about when people think that their life is on the line. If they don't have food, shelter, or clothing, or think that they won't be able to get it soon, then what have they got to lose? The US and Western Europe do not have people remotely near that - people have uncertainty about their jobs, but aren't starving to death, some people have lost their homes but end up staying in a shelter or with relatives (which was the norm before WW2 anyway), people aren't getting arrested for campainging for change in the government, and so on. Like pointed out in the last thread on this topic, the biggest problem facing the poor is obesity. We don't have starving peasants waiting to storm the palace in a last desperate hope, we have fat guys laying on the couch who might not get enough energy to change the channel.

Plus, the fact that we have actual free and open elections makes the whole revolution idea kind of silly. If you can get 30% of the population to risk their lives facing down thugs armed with tanks, why not just get them to sign a petition to put a new person on the ballot then vote for him? If you can't get 30% of the population behind your revolt, you're pretty damn unlikely to succeed anyway.

Khornholio wrote:90% or so of the West have no means to the control of the State. You vote in a popularity contest in a one party state.

90% People in the US (I'm not sure if 'the West' is weasel words or not) can certainly control the state if they have a common goal. Getting a third party candidate on the ballot is not hard with support, the Libertarians manage it every presidential cycle in spite of not pulling even 5% of the popular vote. Once a party candidate is on the ballot, you just vote for him like you would one from one of the two parties. The fact that the existing two parties are good enough for most voters and modify their platforms as to fit what people want means it's working. "Popularity contest" is just the sarcastic way to refer to the fact that in a democracy the winner gets more votes, if you want democracy then you want a popularity contest and vice versa.

It's really easy to rant about popularity contests and how no one can do anything, but it just doesn't hold up to reason.

warpcrafter wrote:
Real Democracy is mob rule. Is that what you want?

Closer, but that's still not correct. Direct democracy is a type of democracy, but not the only type.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BearersOfSalvation wrote:Widespread violent civil unrest comes about when people think that their life is on the line. If they don't have food, shelter, or clothing, or think that they won't be able to get it soon, then what have they got to lose?

Their lives? Violent unrest almost never originates within the peasant class. Violent unrest (and unrest in general) is generally a phenomenon unique to the middle class, or the lower echelons of the upper class. Basically, the people that are just well off enough to know that there are other people who are even more well off, and believe that said well off people are actively screwing them (whether or not that's right or wrong is irrelevant).

Note that it isn't the lower classes revolting in Egypt, Tunisia, Yemen, or anywhere else.. Its students (they tend to be the first to rebel), tradesmen, office workers, etc.

DaNewBoy wrote:With the rash of civil rebellions in the Middle East and North Africa, why would Europe and North America be immune?

Should there be concerns?

In England the closet we'll ever get to a civil rebellion are football riots.

Will my Xbox and broadband internet still work after the rebellion? I just want to clarify the important stuff before I sign up.

The Declaration of Independence and U.S. Constitution, if I recall correctly, do not mention the word 'Democracy'.

The Founding Fathers (rightly) sought a Republic. Not mob rule.