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I really like the White Scars but something about their color scheme just dosen't work for me. It almost just seems really plain to me and I don't really like the "tribal patterns". So can anyone think of a fluff based reason I could have a differant paint scheme? I'm almost thinking of just inverting the colors, give them red armor with white trim on their shoulder guards, red insets and white chapter symbols. If need be I'll just make a successor chapter but I'd like to keep them as White Scars.

White Scars have very long and important hunts. Perhaps one of their heroes was taken down in battle and, until they find and kill the foul enemy who betrays them, they have painted their armour crimson to mark their blood oath...

Hmm going along those lines maybe they where fighting alongside an IG regiment that turned to Chaos and betrayed the Brotherhood which resulted in the death of their Khan. His successor swears an oath that the Brotherhood will avenge the honor (honor is pretty important to the WS) of the fallen Khan by hunting down those who betrayed them and untill they do so will wear the colors of vengence. And though their oath is to hunt down the members of the Regiment that betrayed them it dosen't stop them from fullfilling their duties and fighting in other battles, I like it.

It's the same thing you said just a little more elaborate So does it fit for fluff all you fluff monkies out there???

The White Scars are nothing but a paint scheme. If you change it there's no reason to keep the name.

If you change the paint scheme why WOULD you keep the name? If you paint them paisley, or fuchsia, or fudge royale, they wouldn't be WHITE Scars anymore, would they?

Silly idea. Silly question.

Though... fudge royale Marines? Hmmm...

Odins Beard wrote:...maybe they where fighting alongside an IG regiment that turned to Chaos and betrayed the Brotherhood...

Well, this part is a bit flaky, to me. It's not like entire armies just all-of-a-sudden, "POOF!"... turn to Chaos! It's a slow, poisoning, possession of the mind and soul. It would take a long time for a regiment of guard to turn.



King Ghidorah

With all due respect just because you don't like it dosen't make it a silly idea or question. White Scars do not take their name from their paint scheme they take it from the ritual of scarification they took from the tribes of Chogoris, there is even an inverted WS scheme like I said on a White Scars Apothecary from the Rogue Trader days. And we aren't talking about Paisley, Fuchia or Fudge Royal which would be dramatic changes vs inverting the color scheme to represent a temporary state of the Brotherhood.

And if "They aren't White Scars without the paint scheme" then the inverted Apothecary was never a White Scar and neither are Chaplains or Librarians who wear the colors dictated by the Codex Astartes that aren't the color of their parent chapter. In the same breath Deathwing and Ravenwing aren't Dark Angels because they don't share the same paint scheme as the rest of the chapter. And Sanguinary Guard and Death Company aren't Blood Angels because they don't share the same paint scheme. There are plenty of chapters with groups of marines who don't wear the regular uniform for whatever reason and are still apart of their chapter.

And from Black Library stories I've read entire regiments have turned to chaos, I never said what circumstances they turned under or how long it took for it to happen so again with all due respect there is nothing flaky about it. The idea of a Brotherhood of White Scars having an alternate paint scheme for a fluff based reason is perfectly acceptable and in no way does it make them "Not White Scars"

Please allow me to clarify: I did not say that I did not like the idea. I was poking fun at the literal, real life idea of WHITE Scars models not being WHITE. Sort of like Barry White is black and Frank Black is white...

Odins Beard wrote:White Scars do not take their name from their paint scheme they take it from the ritual of scarification they took...The idea of a Brotherhood of White Scars having an alternate paint scheme for a fluff based reason is perfectly acceptable and in no way does it make them "Not White Scars"

Well, one model with a different color is not an entire army. Dante being gold does not mean they are no longer Blood Angels. Plus, it isn't the chapter organization, the bonds that tie them, the duty they feel, the quests they go on, or the charities they donate to that I am referring to. What I'm referring to is the ACTUAL WORDING of the chapter; WHITE Scars.

Whether or not some imaginary horde of Asiatic-based, nomadic dudes in power armor and honkin' huge bikes chose the name for some reason or another is moot. I'm talking about how the game designers, the humans in England that created the game decided to call these Marines WHITE Scars and thus, painted their armor... white. It would have been stupid to call them Green Scars, wouldn't it? White Scars because they are White. Alternately, white, because they are White Scars. Depends on how you see the cup...

Now, I do very much like the fluff idea of painting their bikes red to remind them of some blood oath or whatever. I think that's a cool idea. Makes perfect sense alongside what I have learned the Mongols to have been back in the day. Oaths and bonds were very big to them. I think this is a great idea. I'd love to see a white bike and armor that has red painted on in a manner that looks like the individual Marine did it himself. Like an incomplete coverage, spots missing or scraped off to show the white underneath. This could be a pretty cool project.

I will stand by my comments about the guard turning to chaos, though. The way you worded your idea sounded like the whole guard army present in the battle just turned to chaos mid-fight. To a man. That's how it sounds. If you didn't mean it that way, then that's something else. The way you did word it, though, that's how it sounded to me.

Paint 'em read, post the pics, let us drool and heap praise!
(just no chaos-changing guard! lol)


King Ghidorah

Ghidorah wrote:Please allow me to clarify: I did not say that I did not like the idea. I was poking fun at the literal, real life idea of WHITE Scars models not being WHITE. Sort of like Barry White is black and Frank Black is white...

So you like the idea yet you think it and the question are silly?

Odins Beard wrote:

White Scars do not take their name from their paint scheme they take it from the ritual of scarification they took...The idea of a Brotherhood of White Scars having an alternate paint scheme for a fluff based reason is perfectly acceptable and in no way does it make them "Not White Scars"

Well, one model with a different color is not an entire army. Dante being gold does not mean they are no longer Blood Angels. Plus, it isn't the chapter organization, the bonds that tie them, the duty they feel, the quests they go on, or the charities they donate to that I am referring to. What I'm referring to is the ACTUAL WORDING of the chapter; WHITE Scars.

Except that the Sanguinary Guard, Death Company, Deathwing and Ravenwing aren't single marines with a differant color scheme they're entire groups. And just because their name is White Scars dosen't mean their coloring has to be entirely white.

Whether or not some imaginary horde of Asiatic-based, nomadic dudes in power armor and honkin' huge bikes chose the name for some reason or another is moot. I'm talking about how the game designers, the humans in England that created the game decided to call these Marines WHITE Scars and thus, painted their armor... white. It would have been stupid to call them Green Scars, wouldn't it? White Scars because they are White. Alternately, white, because they are White Scars. Depends on how you see the cup...

Unless the game designers decided to call them White Scars in referance to the type of scar known as "White Scars" which would be the type of scar they had after their rituals which mimic those performed by the Huns. And since not everyone knows that it woulden't make since for them to be painted green when no one would know the reasoning behind why they're called White Scars if their color wasen't white.

Now, I do very much like the fluff idea of painting their bikes red to remind them of some blood oath or whatever. I think that's a cool idea. Makes perfect sense alongside what I have learned the Mongols to have been back in the day. Oaths and bonds were very big to them. I think this is a great idea. I'd love to see a white bike and armor that has red painted on in a manner that looks like the individual Marine did it himself. Like an incomplete coverage, spots missing or scraped off to show the white underneath. This could be a pretty cool project.

I'm still confused, you say it's a silly question and idea and yet you like it? I just don't really get what you're saying I guess

I will stand by my comments about the guard turning to chaos, though. The way you worded your idea sounded like the whole guard army present in the battle just turned to chaos mid-fight. To a man. That's how it sounds. If you didn't mean it that way, then that's something else. The way you did word it, though, that's how it sounded to me.

To me saying they fought beside a regiment that turned to Chaos dosen't sound anything like "the regiment turned mid fight" but we each read things differantly lol

Paint 'em read, post the pics, let us drool and heap praise!
(just no chaos-changing guard! lol)


King Ghidorah

Oh you will drool and guard who changed to Chaos is official fluff, has been done before so if I did it I see no reason it isn't a fluff valid point to take the oath.

That being said I've been doing a bit of research and have had an idea which may cause me to do a successor chapter with a completly differant paint scheme if the idea grows enough. But untill I decide are their any other ideas as to why a Brotherhood of White Scars would have an alternate paint scheme? I like the blood oath idea just stiring the water to see what comes out of the pot

Hey, man. I think it makes perfect sense. As long as you're just inverting the colours, technically the patterns ('scars') on their armour will be white. I'd go as far as to say it makes more sense than the original colours.

Just make a successor chapter. You don't see people running around with gold ultramarines and black imperial fists. Those are successor chapters.

ph34r wrote:Just make a successor chapter. You don't see people running around with gold ultramarines and black imperial fists. Those are successor chapters.

Yup real helfpfull

theuy're your models and the fluff explination sound good to me.... paint them however you want

mullet_steve wrote:theuy're your models and the fluff explination sound good to me.... paint them however you want

I tend to agree with this. They are your models, paint them however you choose. You do not even need a 'fluff' reason for it, but it does sounds plausible. I've spent the last 3 years listening to people who try and tell me the 2-tone purple scheme on my Grey Knights is just 'wrong'.

Having painted a traditional WS colour scheme, I think your idea of reversing the colours would be quite striking.

Well I know I don't I can paint my armies any way I want but I'm a fan of fluff so if I do something outside the regular fluff for the army I at least like to have an acceptable reason as to why it would be done ya know?

Like with my Tomb Kings, when I made my Tomb Kings I gave them a Lustrian theme. I didn't have to have a reason for it if I didn't want one because they are my models and I can do what I want with them. But I created the idea that prior to the rise of Nagash a fleet sailed from Khemri under the command of a Prince to search for new lands in the name of his father the King. After landing in Lustria they built a city and eventually the city died. But when the vampire (I forget his name) arrived and made the Vampire Coast his magic awoke the Prince and his army etc. This is an example of how I like to make things work fluff wise lol

So anyway thanks everyone for the feedback

Odins Beard wrote:

ph34r wrote:Just make a successor chapter. You don't see people running around with gold ultramarines and black imperial fists. Those are successor chapters.

Yup real helfpfull

So you make a thread asking a question, and get mad when people don't answer the exact way you want? Nice.

You're under the impression that I got mad because he didn't answer in a way that's helpfull to the idea? You don't know me so assuming I got mad just because I told someone what they put dosen't help isn't going to be an accurate assumption. Sarcasm does not equal anger

Lord Maleval wrote:

mullet_steve wrote:theuy're your models and the fluff explination sound good to me.... paint them however you want

I tend to agree with this. They are your models, paint them however you choose. You do not even need a 'fluff' reason for it, but it does sounds plausible. I've spent the last 3 years listening to people who try and tell me the 2-tone purple scheme on my Grey Knights is just 'wrong'.

Having painted a traditional WS colour scheme, I think your idea of reversing the colours would be quite striking.

That's because it is the wrong scheme. When people do something completely different from 'eavy metal's chapter scheme they can't call it that chapter anymore because it has no trace of the chapter's identity. Changing things up a bit is fine but a complete deviation is pointless. That's like handing me a piece of green paper and telling me it's black; of course it's green.

That being said I think simply making them a successor chapter sounds like a better idea.

DODcrazy wrote:

Lord Maleval wrote:

mullet_steve wrote:theuy're your models and the fluff explination sound good to me.... paint them however you want

I tend to agree with this. They are your models, paint them however you choose. You do not even need a 'fluff' reason for it, but it does sounds plausible. I've spent the last 3 years listening to people who try and tell me the 2-tone purple scheme on my Grey Knights is just 'wrong'.

Having painted a traditional WS colour scheme, I think your idea of reversing the colours would be quite striking.

That's because it is the wrong scheme. When people do something completely different from 'eavy metal's chapter scheme they can't call it that chapter anymore because it has no trace of the chapter's identity.

As a matter of fact people can call it that chapter as people can do whatever they want including calling a chapter whatever they want even if they don't use the "approved" paint scheme. It's the beauty of having free will

Changing things up a bit is fine but a complete deviation is pointless. That's like handing me a piece of green paper and telling me it's black; of course it's green.

I do agree with this to some extent, while people are allowed to do what they want (within reason) and no one can tell them otherwise I do think that an effort should be put forth to at least keep it close or similar to the original scheme. That's why I don't plan on doing my White Scars say orange.

That being said I think simply making them a successor chapter sounds like a better idea.

Except that the idea presented is both fluff supported and reasonable.

Odins Beard wrote:

DODcrazy wrote:That's because it is the wrong scheme. When people do something completely different from 'eavy metal's chapter scheme they can't call it that chapter anymore because it has no trace of the chapter's identity.

As a matter of fact people can call it that chapter as people can do whatever they want including calling a chapter whatever they want even if they don't use the "approved" paint scheme. It's the beauty of having free will

Sadly, I regret to inform you that the ability to call your chapter something does not make that a fact. I could call your army the flying feth-tards, but would you believe that I was right? Nope.

Odins Beard wrote:

That being said I think simply making them a successor chapter sounds like a better idea.

Except that the idea presented is both fluff supported and reasonable.

Apparently it isn't, as evidenced by the people posting in your thread? Is this confusing?

ph34r wrote:

Odins Beard wrote:

DODcrazy wrote:That's because it is the wrong scheme. When people do something completely different from 'eavy metal's chapter scheme they can't call it that chapter anymore because it has no trace of the chapter's identity.

As a matter of fact people can call it that chapter as people can do whatever they want including calling a chapter whatever they want even if they don't use the "approved" paint scheme. It's the beauty of having free will

Sadly, I regret to inform you that the ability to call your chapter something does not make that a fact. I could call your army the flying feth-tards, but would you believe that I was right? Nope.

You seemed to have missed the point of my statement. You can call them whatever you want, as I have said people can do what they want in response to what DODcrazy said that people CAN'T do something and it is not within his or your power to tell people what they can and can't do. If a person has a chapter yet paints them a differant color then what is official and wants to call them the original chapter they are welcome to do it and no one can stop it.

For instance a person has a Imperial fists army with a Librarian, they paint the Librarian in the markings and colors of the Imperial Fists with a blue shoulder guard, yet the official 'eavy metal stance on Librarians is they should be blue with a shoulder guard colored the same as the chapter. Only someone who is extremly anal is going to try and argue that he isn't apart of the same chapter and if that person where to try and argue such they woulden't be someone I would have any dealings with.

Odins Beard wrote:

That being said I think simply making them a successor chapter sounds like a better idea.

Except that the idea presented is both fluff supported and reasonable.

Apparently it isn't, as evidenced by the people posting in your thread? Is this confusing?

A differance of opinion does not discredit an idea nor is it evidence, there are multiple instances of groups within chapters (and even entire companies) having alternate paint schemes then what the chapter normally has. There is absolutly nothing saying that those instances are limited to just those chapters and the reasoning behind why I'll apply it to my White Scars company is driven by the chapters fluff so I believe you are the one who is confused as you keep trying to argue against established fluff.

When you can learn to have a discussion without trying to insult someone I'll be glad to have conversations with you, but as I don't see that happening anytime soon I'm going to refrain from commenting on any statement you may make.

YOU'RE TEARING ME APART, LISA!



Seriously, guys, can we not get so crazy? Let him do whatever the hell he wants, your high-and-mighty opinion isn't going to change anything. If people can run grot and skaven armies as IG, people can run White Scars with slightly different colours. Look deep within yourself and ask, does it really matter? Will the world end in smoke and fire if he inverts his colours? Does he deserve having to wade through all this junk?

Please, for the love of christ, drop it.

HadoukenAvenger wrote:YOU'RE TEARING ME APART, LISA!



Seriously, guys, can we not get so crazy? Let him do whatever the hell he wants, your high-and-mighty opinion isn't going to change anything. If people can run grot and skaven armies as IG, people can run White Scars with slightly different colours. Look deep within yourself and ask, does it really matter? Will the world end in smoke and fire if he inverts his colours? Does he deserve having to wade through all this junk?

Please, for the love of christ, drop it.

I just have one questio, who is Lisa?

Hahaha, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Plz-bhcHryc

Odins Beard wrote:

HadoukenAvenger wrote:YOU'RE TEARING ME APART, LISA!



Seriously, guys, can we not get so crazy? Let him do whatever the hell he wants, your high-and-mighty opinion isn't going to change anything. If people can run grot and skaven armies as IG, people can run White Scars with slightly different colours. Look deep within yourself and ask, does it really matter? Will the world end in smoke and fire if he inverts his colours? Does he deserve having to wade through all this junk?

Please, for the love of christ, drop it.

I just have one questio, who is Lisa?

Make your own chapter who are descended from the white scars. Honestly it can be anything you want your army to be. Its your army.

People, there is no reason to say that he can do whatever he likes because they are his models. This is a frikkin given. Of COURSE he can. I seriously doubt that ANYONE thinks that they can stop anyone from doing something with their own army. That's like telling somebody that they're allowed to put their own shirt on backwards...

Stop being stupid.

This isn't about whether or not he can paint his own army as he sees fits. For me (not speaking for anyone else), this was about WHITE Scars not being WHITE and the humor that it brought me.
Now, this is about him asking opinions and then arguing the replies.

ph34r wrote:So you make a thread asking a question, and get mad when people don't answer the exact way you want? Nice.

^^^ THIS ^^^

He is replying to almost every post and arguing the ones that counter him. Not only arguing, but dissecting each one into a series of mini quotes in order to fine tune his rebuttals.
If you don't want to hear opposing points of view, don't post threads asking for advice. If you don't want people to criticize your ideas, don't post them. If you don't want an argument, don't hover over the 'refresh page' button and jump on every reply like you're defending your very existence.

Tomb Kings with a Lustrian theme is not even remotely the same. Don't you think gak dies in Lustria? Of course it does. That stuff that dies also gets buried, right? Undead (Tomb King) Lizardmen are as legit as you can get, in my opinion. However, if there was a founding chapter of Marines called the "Green Pants Legion' then I offer that painting their pants orange would be silly.


I'm trying to type a whole lot of different thoughts and concepts to give you a lot of ammo for your quote-editing replies, but to be honest, I'm running out of things to say to you. I've already spent more time in a thread I don't give a rat's ass about. I need to go find some threads worth reading...



King Ghidorah

The original poster has a fluff based reason (however losely fluff based) and I think he was just asking what the general reaction by the hobby community would be.... Unfortunatly the general reaction has been well very harsh in my opinion form some of the people here on dakka. Form what I remember the white Scars does indeed refer to the ritual scaring the chapter undertakes and the fact that they love dueling so their armour needen't be white from my perspective.

I'm afraid that the general reply to the OP has been that some poeple don't like the idea some do, your not going to convince the people that don't and you needen't convince the people that do, I fear it may be best to either ignore the people who disagree and do it anyway or give into their suggestions and make a successor chapter with whatever color scheme you wish,

From a rules point of view I am not aware of any white scars specific rules that you'd need but if there are any you can use them anyway I guess.

good luck and I look forward to seeing some of the red scar models in the plastic so to speak.

I've asked for fluff based reasons as to what would cause a White Scars company to change their colors on a temporary basis, only one person has actually stuck to answering that question and it was a pretty good reason as to why. Those who say it can't be done are using the argument that if your group dosen't follow the original paint scheme of the chapter to the letter then your marines aren't apart of the same chapter. This is where the problem comes in because I didn't ask if it's fluff acceptable for a group of marines within a chapter to have a differant color scheme then the rest of the chapter. I didn't ask this because I already know it is and there are multiple official examples of it listed in this thread. So those who say it can't happen are wrong plain and simple and it's not only myself but also GW who is saying it.

Now one person is of the opinion that I argue against everything that dosen't agree with me. Yet all of the posts I'm arguing against are all the posts saying I can't do it because of the reason given above. It has already been established that this argument is incorrect but it would seem for some reason that those who are making this point like to say that something which has already been officialy established in 40k fluff can't be done.

If someone had provided a reasonable, on topic argument that they could support with official fluff as to why the White Scars company woulden't have a reason to change their colors or why a Blood Oath woulden't be a good enough reason to do it even on a temporary basis then I woulden't do it, I would either make a successor with an entirely differant scheme or just paint them as normal. But beings as no one has been able to do that or even tried for that matter this isn't the case.

So if there are certain members who don't like that I have no problem arguing against their off topic, unsupported and fluff contradicted point then they're just going to have to learn to deal with it. Because not one of their posts even came close to persuading me not to do it, which I never asked if I should/could or not to begin with. So if they want to hoot, hollar and say I get angry or don't listen or the threads a waste of their time because they don't like the idea then they can have at it till they're blue in the face. It still won't make them right and it still won't stop me from doing something that's perfectly fine and supported by fluff. It will however cause me to remind them that no one is making them read the thread.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

SO!!!, now that I got that long winded mess out of the way how about we get back to discussing ideas as to what would cause a WS Brotherhood to temporarly change their colors since we already know that it can happen. Miraclefish has provided a very good reason as to why they would do it but I'm still open to more ideas

Odins Beard wrote:blah, blah, blablah, blahblahblah, blah...

tl;dr

Paint 'em however you want and quit whining about it. You got the answers you were looking for, leave the thread alone until you get some stuff painted. Coming back here to reply at this point shows that you're just looking for an argument. Let it go.



King Ghidorah

Except that I've pruposed that the discussion get back on topic and you're the one who keeps responding with the maturity level of a 5 year old. And since you've already made it clear that the thread is not worth your time any post you put it is actually an indication that you are the one looking for an argument or you're purposfully trying to derail the topic. I will continue my discussion on course for as long as I want, if you don't like it don't read the thread because once again no one is making you read it.

The moderators kindly invite both of you to drop it.

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